How can you tell a good drummer and a bad drummer apart?

[JonesTheCat]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1473338994' post='3129271']
i couldn't tell you all the differences, but i do know this drummer is at the wrong gig...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E[/media]
[/quote]


First time I've ever seen that and I'm crying laughing.

In my head the guitarist has no idea what's going on behind him which makes it even funnier.

[BottomE]

In all seriousness it probably takes about 1 minute to find out if:[list]
[*]they can keep time
[*]play at the right tempo
[*]don't do stupid fills
[*]have good "feel"
[/list]
If they tick all the above then you should be fine.

[JTUK]

I know if I'll like a drummer with just one fill during set-up...

[M@23]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1473505518' post='3130795']
In all seriousness it probably takes about 1 minute to find out if:[list]
[*]they can keep time
[*]play at the right tempo
[*]don't do stupid fills
[*]have good "feel"
[/list]
If they tick all the above then you should be fine.
[/quote]

I'd agree with that. The stupid, out of place, out of time fills are what annoys me most. One of the drummers I work with regularly now isn't flash at all, but is so solid with a great groove. He has a musical brain and ear to contribute to the song. I choose him for gigs over others that are probably technically more profiecient but aren't as switched on to the band.

[Davo-London]

C'mon guys give me a break - I'm a drummer and I'm getting increasingly upset ...

So, how do you tell if it's a good drummer? Ears.

Does the drummer listen? Can they react to what's going on? They should alter their dynamics to fit he song/section of the song.
They should pick the right stick, they should be able to play quietly - this is the true test.

I play bass with a ton of drummers at church. Most are poor by my criteria but you can forgive a lot if they listen!

Davo

Edited September 13, 2016 by Davo-London

[wateroftyne]

A good drummer will hit something because it needs to be hit.

A bad drummer will hit something because they can.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1473764648' post='3132850']
C'mon guys give me a break - I'm a drummer and I'm getting increasingly upset ...

So, how do you tell if it's a good drummer? Ears.

Does the drummer listen? Can they react to what's going on? They should alter their dynamics to fit he song/section of the song.
They should pick the right stick, they should be able to play quietly - this is the true test.

I play bass with a ton of drummers at church. Most are poor by my criteria but you can forgive a lot if they listen!

Davo
[/quote]

One part or it, but really that is a given, IMO and you apply that to any member of the band.

As regards drummers, you have to hit them right to make them sound good...as if you don't, no amount of EQ or tuning will really rescue that.
Then you need good fluidity between your left and right...
and then you need good Rhythm.. the more you have here, the better.

And then you need musicality. If you have all that, you'll have a pretty good pro standard player.

The more you have of those 4 things, dictates how good the gig they can get. IME.

[Dad3353]

Not many would disagree with all that, as it's pretty obvious really. Yes, a good drummer is a musician who can play, and listen, keeps good time and sounds good; no surprise there. I see that no-one has yet mentioned stick-twirling, though. Surely no drummer could aspire to the epithet 'good' if this critical skill is lacking..? Not just the old 'optical illusion' trick that fools no-one, but real 'tossing in the air and catching on the beat' stuff. The true hallmark, no..?

[ColinB]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1473771476' post='3132960']
As regards drummers, you have to hit them right to make them sound good...
[/quote]

...I thought we were on for another drummer joke there!

[Barking Spiders]

Yes I've seen that clip of the ZZ Top cover. Ha ha, the bloke in this vid is priceless. Mind you, what's with ABC gold lame jacket look? Doesn't really match the music. Anyway, a good explanation by the guy in the OP's clip. As drummer myself I can't stand Keith Moon's playing nor Mitch Mitchell's nor Ginger Baker's. Too busy for the songs and too loose. Give me Ringo over them any day.

[wateroftyne]

Yay! It's 2012 all over again :-)

[Sibob]

Yeah it's been done to death that video clip, so old.
That said, I think the guy in the OP vid is a fantastic drummer, I don't care what he's wearing or how he's playing, if you close your eyes, he's solid as anything!

Si

[bottomofthebarrel]

Good drummer = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTdxsz8zR1U

[cheddatom]

I was on drums at a gig once, and I knew I would have to be subdued and quiet due to the crowd/lineup/venue. However, the soundman pissed me off early on with a bad attitude. When he asked me to go around the kit, I thrashed the sh*t out of it playing some stupid metal and fast fills etc. just to let off some steam. I think anyone who saw that would have assumed I was either a bad drummer, or wouldn't suit the band I was with.

After we played, the soundman approached me to say "When I saw you at soundcheck I thought you were going to be a nightmare, playing too loud and all over the place. I was so wrong, nice set!"

So, I think sometimes you see a musician out of context, and you shouldn't make assumptions...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1473506189' post='3130804']
I know if I'll like a drummer with just one fill during set-up...
[/quote]

This is ridiculous

[chris_b]

Good video.

Everyone on a stage should be supporting the song. This video illustrates good drumming very well and Ringo is an excellent example of a good drummer.

IMO there are 2 drummers who changed drumming. Not Buddy Rich, Bonzo or even the usually out of time Keith Moon but Earl Palmer and Ringo Starr.

[lowland]

I was fortunate enough to play bass in a pickup band for whom Graham Broad was drumming; this was in the 80s, a one-off at a large (30,000) festival. I'd played with a couple of good drummers before, but for me this was like an electric shock up the spine in a good way.

All through rehearsals, if the arrangement changed he never forgot (everyone else, including some serious players, regularly did), he was endlessly cheerful and encouraging, and made me look far better than I was. The groove quotient was fantastic, rarely doing anything tricksy - concentrating instead on driving the machine - but when he did it was appropriate to the music and top drawer.

Unsurprisingly, that's been my yardstick drummer-wise ever since! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Broad

[JTUK]

[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1473773295' post='3132993']
...I thought we were on for another drummer joke there!
[/quote]

made me chuckle...

[JTUK]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1473778191' post='3133049']
I was on drums at a gig once, and I knew I would have to be subdued and quiet due to the crowd/lineup/venue. However, the soundman pissed me off early on with a bad attitude. When he asked me to go around the kit, I thrashed the sh*t out of it playing some stupid metal and fast fills etc. just to let off some steam. I think anyone who saw that would have assumed I was either a bad drummer, or wouldn't suit the band I was with.

After we played, the soundman approached me to say "When I saw you at soundcheck I thought you were going to be a nightmare, playing too loud and all over the place. I was so wrong, nice set!"

So, I think sometimes you see a musician out of context, and you shouldn't make assumptions...



This is ridiculous
[/quote]

Fraid not... It doesn't matter about the context, it is how he strikes and fills.. I'll know what sort of panache he has.
I wouldn't always extend that to whether the guy is any good... he might be, but not my cup of tea. And I can tell that instantly.

[JTUK]

[quote name='lowland' timestamp='1473779884' post='3133063']
I was fortunate enough to play bass in a pickup band for whom Graham Broad was drumming; this was in the 80s, a one-off at a large (30,000) festival. I'd played with a couple of good drummers before, but for me this was like an electric shock up the spine in a good way.

All through rehearsals, if the arrangement changed he never forgot (everyone else, including some serious players, regularly did), he was endlessly cheerful and encouraging, and made me look far better than I was. The groove quotient was fantastic, rarely doing anything tricksy - concentrating instead on driving the machine - but when he did it was appropriate to the music and top drawer.

Unsurprisingly, that's been my yardstick drummer-wise ever since! [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Broad"]https://en.wikipedia...ki/Graham_Broad[/url]
[/quote]

It is easy to see a drummer who is decent pro standard and has a good gig... and compare what the really special guys have.
When you have that perspective, ( you are going to have to play with them) you really know what a good drummer is. IMO.

[tauzero]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1473771476' post='3132960']
As regards drummers, you have to hit them right to make them sound good...
[/quote]

I find a little kindness helps.

[Lord Sausage]

what's got three legs and a **** (c word) on top?

A drum stool!

[skej21]

How can you tell if the stage is level? The drummer is drooling out of both sides of his mouth!

On a serious note, the two things I look for in a 'good' drummer are; 1) Can keep time and 2) they don't change their beat every 2 bars. I don't mind how simple or technical they want to make their playing if they can keep to those two things. There's nothing worse than playing with a technically brilliant, metronomic drummer who you can't lock in with because they don't play the same bass drum pattern twice!

Edited September 14, 2016 by skej21

[Davo-London]

I got slayed once on TB when I criticised a pro drummer for doing just that, i.e. changing the beat every 2 bars. It was a jazz gig with Brad Mehldau. To this day I stand by what I said. Don't care how good he was, he was ruining the set and it didn't fit the beautiful playing of Mehldau.

Davo

Edited September 14, 2016 by Davo-London

[cheddatom]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473835438' post='3133399']
...There's nothing worse than playing with a technically brilliant, metronomic drummer who you can't lock in with because they don't play the same bass drum pattern twice!
[/quote]

Indeed, very frustrating!!!!

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473835438' post='3133399']


On a serious note, the two things I look for in a 'good' drummer are; 1) Can keep time ...(snip)
[/quote]

Thing is, there's keeping time, and there's keeping time with the band.

Listen to any live footage of Guns n Roses during their first album. Steve Adler is not a rock solid time keeper, but they slow and speed up as a band, which kind of adds to what they were doing.