OK I Don't Get Gibsons - Help me here

[neepheid]

Ahh, the simple truth always appears at some point

[Skybone]

Like Gibson basses, just never owned one.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1473713475' post='3132557']
I find it hard to describe my thoughts about Gibson basses (and a good many other things) without sounding negative. This isn't my intention here at all. I think at some point you have to be a bit objective. Gibson basses have a tendency to be harder to play than Fenders, and a good number of them are harder to EQ in a band setting, especially if you are used to the tone of Fender basses. It takes less work to get a good tone out of a P bass, which is ultimately probably why so many folk use them.

A lot of famous Gibson bass players jumped ship to other builders; Glenn Cornick, Jack Bruce, Andy Fraser, Trevor Bolder, John Entwistle. When these gigging bassists were presented with alternative instruments they jumped ship; a simple fact. I don't say this to denigrate Gibson basses, simply to demonstrate the tastes of musicians that used Gibson instruments back in the day. I would love an EB-3 with a slotted headstock, and RD Artist bass, a Polaris white Thunderbird II, a natural finish EB-2 and even an EB-1, but none of them would be my desert island bass. I have nothing but respect for those that do make these basses work in a live and recording setting, but ultimately I find that good Fender (and Fender style basses) tend to get 'out the way' when you play them, whereas with Gibson it seems like they never actually asked a bassist 'does this work?' before implementing a design.
[/quote]

What I'm getting at is that a few of your points would be more palatable if you prefixed them with "in my opinion". I don't find GIbsons any more difficult to play than Fenders - in fact, I am not keen on the ergonomics of a Jazz neck, and it makes me make more mistakes, completely flying in the face of logic telling me that a skinnier neck ought to be more efficient - economy of movement and whatnot - and that goes for Thunderbird too with its skinny neck (but not the non-reverse, it's chunkier).

The "hard work" which you seem to find is so worth it for the tone you can find. For what it's worth, I've found Gibsons shod with TB+ pickups to be amongst the easiest to drop into a live situation with no EQ fettling at all. But I guess that makes me a weirdo, lucky, or some kind of idiot savant


I am under no illusions and there's no need to question my objectivity - Gibson are about as far from perfect as a bass manufacturer can get - a contrary bunch, they can be innovative in one heartbeat and boneheadedly stupid in another. I love and despise them in about equal measure. There are Gibson basses I wouldn't touch with a barge pole (EB-1, EB-2, most Thunderbirds, short scales for quick examples). But the bottom line is that playing the Gibson basses I do like ticks the boxes for me - I can play what I want to play, sound how I want to sound and look how I want to look. I can deal with weight, and I would like to contend that many Gibson designs (and there have been many) are more balanced than you're making out. I'm not saying it's right for anyone apart from me, I just feel that people focus far too much on the negative traits of a couple of the most popular designs and extrapolate that out to the whole bunch. It's just a bit unfair, that's all, and if you think that's a viewpoint which stems from blind fanboi-ism then you've really got me all wrong.

[Basszilla]

Used to have a black 78 ripper.

Shouldn't of sold it, it was a diamond of a bass.

Incredible neck on it and they just look fantastic.

[Norris]

I have a Tbird. It's a lovely bass, great sound, fabulous looks. However it's not been out of the case for 18 months or so because I've been playing my P. I suppose that says something. If I was to sell a bass then that one is probably at the head of the queue

[NancyJohnson]

At one stage I was running several Thunderbirds; mortgage paid, the doors of purchase opened and after a long period of using a late 70s Precision (and an even longer period of wanting a Thunderbird), I just went on a spending spree and bought six in as many months. (Over the last year or two I've dropped this number to the best two of the lot.)

For me (three point bridge aside), they're the best out of the box bass I've ever played. Build quality was very consistent. I really don't care for the neck dive arguments - especially from the flat-earthers who've never even played one - the neck is a dream, the design is still head-turning 50 years later and tonally it ticks all the boxes for me. The other thing is the Epiphone models -while decent enough - aren't Gibsons; they're far-east manufacturered facsimiles.

Look, I'll reiterate this (as I've done previously). I'm a chubby guy in my late 40s and when I use the Thunderbird, I'm lean, agile and 20 again. They're like magic.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1473692084' post='3132300']
Memory can play tricks on us all, but I just double checked and according to Martin's autobiography No Easy Road (page 111 to be precise). It is all explained in some detail: essentially two months passed between recording Argus and album release during which time Martin made the transition for the Rickenbacker to a Thunderbird for gigging when the "live" inner gate fold sleeve shots were taken

Plus Ricky 4001s of the early 70s era (I had one: why did i ever sell it) used to have adjustable rubber mutes under the bridge cover to facilitate muting, so the palm muting effect would have been very possible.

I'd thought I'd lost my Anorak!
[/quote]

I've got that book. He's wrong.
The sound of Argus cannot be replicated with a Rick - the pickups are in the wrong place. There's lots of clips on YT of recent MT Ash gigs, some with the Rick - it sounds totally different.
re: foam mutes - these are troublesome things that cannot be switched on and off at will. MT's only palm mutes here and there on Argus and often quickly reverts to standard picking - the intro to 'Blowin' Free' and the verses of 'Time Was' for example.
I have a Cataldo bass - essentially a Thunderbird with a maple bolt-on neck and repro 60s pickups - and on the front pickup only (as per MT) it's instant Argus.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Cosmo Valdemar

[chris_b]

[quote name='pmjos' timestamp='1473531040' post='3131061']
I know, they are iconic, I know they are a part of bass history. Help me here..............I just don't get it.
[/quote]
Not to many of us, they only have a walk on part and. . . . you don't have to.

[Ashborygirl]

Is it just me or do Gibson have a nasty habit of buying emerging bass companies & running them into the ground? I can think of Tobias, Trace Elliot & Steinberger all being bought up by the big G only to either disappear completely or become far-eastern budget instruments.

[Lw.]

I think there's a fair few culprits guilty of doing that in the music industry!

[stingrayPete1977]

I've never understood the need to add the "in my opinion" to posts you make, the fact you are making the post and the members name on the left tells us it's their opinion?

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1473784257' post='3133106']
I've never understood the need to add the "in my opinion" to posts you make, the fact you are making the post and the members name on the left tells us it's their opinion?
[/quote]

The sadness is that we seem to be unable to be able to post any detrimental poop without putting some sort of disclaimer in for fear of upsetting anyone or being on the receiving end of a collective backlash.

Why do you think the vast majority of posts are of the positive? If people don't like something, just post it!

IMO.

[Mickeyboro]

Bought an EB-3 from this board and when I took it to a local jam was staggered by how many bass players of a certain age wanted a go on it!

Really came into its own when I gigged it in a blues trio format with the guitarist playing a Strat. Somehow sounded like a rhythm axe - or filled the space where it'd be.

Said guitarist had always loved the P tone, but even he admitted this combination had some kind of magic. The Cream 2005 format...

[neepheid]

I don't think that opinions should be presented as fact. It's the difference between saying:

"Fender P basses are boring"

And

"I think/in my opinion Fender P basses are boring"

I'll go for the second form because other people have feelings and their own contrasting (and deeply held) opinions. I think it's just good manners rather than some sort of PC gone mad type thing.

But feel free to disagree, of course!

[stingrayPete1977]

My introduction to bass was via an Avon SG copy bass of some sort, it was awful (imo ) ok it was a copy but I've found the things I disliked the most about it were all present on the real ones, I bought a Peavey Foundation in 1993 and it was a revelation and my playing improved hugely,I've never looked back.

[neepheid]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1473799610' post='3133290']
My introduction to bass was via an Avon SG copy bass of some sort, it was awful (imo ) ok it was a copy but I've found the things I disliked the most about it were all present on the real ones, I bought a Peavey Foundation in 1993 and it was a revelation and my playing improved hugely,I've never looked back.
[/quote]

Sounds grim to be sure. I think we're lucky in this day and age that all but the most comically inexpensive basses are more often than not, well built, reliable and playable instruments.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1473804198' post='3133338']
Sounds grim to be sure. I think we're lucky in this day and age that all but the most comically inexpensive basses are more often than not, well built, reliable and playable instruments.
[/quote]

Two words: Rickenbackers.

[stingrayPete1977]

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Ashborygirl' timestamp='1473782035' post='3133075']
Is it just me or do Gibson have a nasty habit of buying emerging bass companies & running them into the ground? I can think of Tobias, Trace Elliot & Steinberger all being bought up by the big G only to either disappear completely or become far-eastern budget instruments.
[/quote]

Fender are equally guilty: SWR, Genz Benz, Guild, etc...

[tom1946]

Always been a fender man but have tried 3 Gibson SG basses and quickly sold them on, just didn't feel right for me but those pickups.... wow.

Thunderbirds look as though they have a growth on the bottom, not a good look for me. Bit Marmite really.

[BigRedX]

Weird isn't it how the Fender bass is supposed to be the staple of guitar bands and that all other brands are unplayable and sound bad.

Certainly when I was getting into music as an impressionable teenager in the 70s that wasn't what I saw in the bands that I liked. If you were to divide up bass guitars into Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker and All Others, in the bands I liked at the time Gibson Basses were by far the most popular followed by Rickenbacker and then All Others. Fender were by far the least common.

Of course it might have been that Thunderbirds, EB3s and Ric 4001s were distinctive and easily identifiable, whereas in the band using a Fender Bass to the young, untrained eye it was difficult to tell it apart from the guitars. ;-)

[discreet]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1473799610' post='3133290']
My introduction to bass was via an Avon SG copy bass of some sort, it was awful (imo ) ok it was a copy but I've found the things I disliked the most about it were all present on the real ones, I bought a Peavey Foundation in 1993 and it was a revelation and my playing improved hugely,I've never looked back.
[/quote]

My first bass was an Avon SG copy, too! 1974!

Hope it wasn't the same one!

[Sibob]

I really like the look of the older RD Artist basses, but just have no use for one really.
I really like SG shaped basses, but again I don't have a band for it, and also Warwick and ESP/LTD do them better than Gibson

Other than that, not fussed at all

Si

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1473842305' post='3133461']


My first bass was an Avon SG copy, too! 1974!

Hope it wasn't the same one!
[/quote]

Was it awful in everyway?

[Norris]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1473877932' post='3133837']
Was it awful in everyway?
[/quote]

My first SG copy was - action could be measured in metres! I'm not sure if it was an Avon or possibly a Columbus. Awful and probably put me off G-style basses until I got my Thunderbird.

Kind of coming back to the OP, Gibson (in my mind) never really "got" the bass. Guitars are great (if you can stand the weight) but basses not quite so. IMHO