Filming gigs

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1485723272' post='3226189']
That's the main reason I would prefer to take a laptop and use a feed from the desk. There's so many variables in a room that you can't be sure to get a clean recording with balance using the mic on a camera. I'd happily put a couple of mics into the room to supplement the instrument mics then tidy things up a DAW.
[/quote]

That would always be the preference of course, but for a turn-up-at-the-gig-at-8:30-and-plonk-the-camera-down-and-off-you-go solution, it's pretty hard to beat.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1485720533' post='3226134']
Comparison files below. They are both .MOV files straight from each device, no conversion or editing whatsoever. One clip is truncated, but there's enough of it for a comparison.

[url="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90710763/Canon%20SX40.MOV"]Canon SX40 version[/url]

[url="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90710763/Zoom%20Q4n.MOV"]Zoom Q4n version[/url]
[/quote]

Listening again to this, the main difference between the two (apart from the Q4n isn't clipping) is that the SX40 is capturing the room, which the Q4n doesn't do in XY. That makes it feel like it has a bit more life about it.

If the mix coming from straight ahead was flat and lifeless, then there's part of the problem.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1485723628' post='3226196']
That would always be the preference of course, but for a turn-up-at-the-gig-at-8:30-and-plonk-the-camera-down-and-off-you-go solution, it's pretty hard to beat.
[/quote]
Agreed 100%.

[moonbass]

In the interests of sound comparison here is the direct unprocessed feed from my Rode Stereo Video Mic Pro. I should have fiddled with it in Logic, but was wanting to get it up quickly at the time (and was grumpy because I had tried to mic and multitrack everything and it didn't work!)
http://youtu.be/OLo40Nw6mBU

[dmccombe7]

EDITED :- just found mine was the Q2 HD and not the newer version Q2N HD

Zoom Q2 HD for me and it does ok. It has a zoom function too.
Does have a limited angle of view tho but otherwise it does a pretty good job of "on the spot" recording.
Youtube provides enhancements if required when uploaded.

Dave

Edited February 1, 2017 by dmccombe7

[HengistPod]

I film all our gigs with a regular Sony camcorder. Set it up on a tripod wherever's handy, and leave it there for a set. Move it to the other side for the second set.

I now have a shedload of footage of any given song in different venues (i.e. pubs), with different guitars and from different angles. I can choose the one with the best sound, then edit together clips to make a multi-camera, multi-venue video of whatever song takes my fancy. I use Movie Edit Pro for that.

[dave_bass5]

interesting thread.

The only thing i can add is that we use a small digital recorder strapped to the singers mic stand. This ensures we get a good stereo mix, with the vocals in the center coming from the monitor (when she remembers to turn it on).
This can provided a very clean but live sounding audio mix that can me synced up to the video.

Ive used this with my GoPro attached to a speaker stand. Its not ideal but works ok.

Im very tempted to get the Q2N, it looks ideal, but with 4 GoPros in the house, and 3 DSLR's its a bit overkill.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1485788914' post='3226678']
interesting thread.

Im very tempted to get the Q2N, it looks ideal, but with 4 GoPros in the house, and 3 DSLR's its a bit overkill.
[/quote]

Looks like there's a new version of mine. I have the Q2 HD and the new version i think is the Q2N HD.

I find the Q2 HD so simple to just put somewhere with half decent view of the band and it has an auto volume control and all just works dead easy.
Does run thru batteries right enough.
Typically 2 hrs out of 2 duracell AA's


Dave

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1485962362' post='3228052']
I find the Q2 HD so simple to just put somewhere with half decent view of the band and it has an auto volume control and all just works dead easy.
Does run thru batteries right enough.
Typically 2 hrs out of 2 duracell AA's
[/quote]

I have the Q2N, and the batteries are the same, about 2 hours, so I have to change them at half time if I want to record everything.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1485969734' post='3228155']
I have the Q2N, and the batteries are the same, about 2 hours, so I have to change them at half time if I want to record everything.
[/quote]
I notice the Zoom website says its USB bus power supported. You might find you can run it from a portable USB power pack. Thats what i do with my GoPro. Saves the hassle of moving it to charge or change the battery once its set up.

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1485970074' post='3228161']
I notice the Zoom website says its USB bus power supported. You might find you can run it from a portable USB power pack. Thats what i do with my GoPro. Saves the hassle of moving it to charge or change the battery once its set up.
[/quote]

It does indeed have a USB power. I had been thinking about having it running from a power supply, I completely overlooked the USB power pack!
Thanks, that is a good plan. I am sure I can get one that can run it over 3 hours, time for some measurements.

[dave_bass5]

This is the one i have

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01422TC14/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Using a short USB lead it has powered my GoPro for over 3 hours and still managed to charge two iPhones at the gig. It also has a touchy on it which has been handy.

[Surrpaul]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1473602831' post='3131529']


Nonsense. All you need is a mic / recorder that can handle the SPL and a tripod.

Exactly. Why on earth does someone need hiring for this purpose? We use a Canon 5D which does both audio and visual really well.

It doesn't take a student or a pro to get something useful - just common sense.
[/quote]

[wateroftyne]

Here's another Q4n clip from last night. Murky lighting, and I've had to crop it to cut out a pint glass :-)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DgAoBXyxtY[/media]

[Woodinblack]

Murky lighting, set the angle wrong, first outing I did with the Q2n, more mistakes than you can shake a stick at, but this is the Q2N recording really close up.

[media]http://youtu.be/hV8LOLPW2FQ[/media]

Edited February 5, 2017 by Woodinblack

[MoonBassAlpha]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8cjmcya1zk1qna/AntonBarbeau-KK-03feb2017-q2.mp4?dl=0
Was shot on a Zoom (Q2? I will check)The lighting was challenging as one of the LED stage light was out, so most of the illumination was coming from the projector (via rotating crystals!!)
But the sound is all there, no overloading the mics.
Sorry it's a download, not been put up on YT yet.

*Edit Some useful information on Zoom cameras from the chap who films a lot of gigs around Oxford. I quote:

"Hi Jules,

the video was also filmed on a Zoom but on an old model they don't make
anymore using the older video chipset. It is also modified with bits of
strategically placed foam to reduce pick up through the body from
standing so close to the speakers, and I fit a foam handle to it to
reduce handling noise, and I periodically have to polish the lens with
autoglass to get rid of scratches and grime that it picks up from being
knocked about at gigs. Compared to modern chip sets, it has grainy low
light performance, but I cling onto it because it is compact and I can
get great sound without having to use an external recorder, and I'd
rather have great sound with ropey graphics, than great images with poor
sound. If I really want both, I'd take my sound recorder and my
camcorder, and edit them together afterwards, but that is time
consuming, so for just recording an odd track or two at a gig, my all in
one portable is what works best for me.

Its a shame but Zoom are just clueless about building a good video
camera. They talk about it being designed by musicians for musicians,
but they must only talk to musicians working in concert-hall lighting
conditions. I bought a Q4 which was meant to be their world-beater, but
I only use that these days during the summer when I go to festivals and
stuff, so I can film in sunlight, and even then, the image just doesn't
have bite. Then about a year ago they brought out this stupidly
expensive Q8, which was supposed to have the Zoom sound quality combined
with fantastic optics, but it still has the same small lens on it and
the image quality is so disappointing. They've also just brought out a
new compact version which I haven't seen up close yet, but Pierre was
telling me the other night that he's seen it, and its still the same
optics and everything, and I could tell he was really unimpressed.

These days, the cameras in most mobile phones are much better than the
cameras that Zoom build, and Zoom sell plug-in mics for iPhones which
gives an all-in-one solution that works well.

https:​//www.​amazon.​co.​uk/Zoom-iQ7-iOS-Handy-Recorder​/dp/B00R4G8QTU

I've never seen one of these for the Android phones though. There is a
mini shotgun that I think works with Androids but I'm not sure it could
handle gig-level sound pressures

https:​//www.​amazon.​com/Ampridge-MightyMic-Shotgun​-Microphone-MMS/dp/B00HRM1KN0/​

I've never tried it, but I reckon you could just use the new model H1 as
an external mic plugged into an Android phone, and get great quality
that way. Nokia built a mobile with good quality mics in it but it ran
Windows Mobile range so it didn't sell at all well.

Regards"

I hope some of this may be handy (!)selecting what folks choose in future, from a user's point of view.

Edited February 7, 2017 by MoonBassAlpha

[MoonBassAlpha]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8cjmcya1zk1qna/AntonBarbeau-KK-03feb2017-q2.mp4?dl=0
Was shot on a Zoom (Q2? I will check)The lighting was challenging as one of the LED stage light was out, so most of the illumination was coming from the projector (via rotating crystals!!)
But the sound is all there, no overloading the mics.
Sorry it's a download, not been put up on YT yet.

*Edit Some useful information on Zoom cameras from the chap who films a lot of gigs around Oxford. I quote:

"Hi Jules,

the video was also filmed on a Zoom but on an old model they don't make
anymore using the older video chipset. It is also modified with bits of
strategically placed foam to reduce pick up through the body from
standing so close to the speakers, and I fit a foam handle to it to
reduce handling noise, and I periodically have to polish the lens with
autoglass to get rid of scratches and grime that it picks up from being
knocked about at gigs. Compared to modern chip sets, it has grainy low
light performance, but I cling onto it because it is compact and I can
get great sound without having to use an external recorder, and I'd
rather have great sound with ropey graphics, than great images with poor
sound. If I really want both, I'd take my sound recorder and my
camcorder, and edit them together afterwards, but that is time
consuming, so for just recording an odd track or two at a gig, my all in
one portable is what works best for me.

Its a shame but Zoom are just clueless about building a good video
camera. They talk about it being designed by musicians for musicians,
but they must only talk to musicians working in concert-hall lighting
conditions. I bought a Q4 which was meant to be their world-beater, but
I only use that these days during the summer when I go to festivals and
stuff, so I can film in sunlight, and even then, the image just doesn't
have bite. Then about a year ago they brought out this stupidly
expensive Q8, which was supposed to have the Zoom sound quality combined
with fantastic optics, but it still has the same small lens on it and
the image quality is so disappointing. They've also just brought out a
new compact version which I haven't seen up close yet, but Pierre was
telling me the other night that he's seen it, and its still the same
optics and everything, and I could tell he was really unimpressed.

These days, the cameras in most mobile phones are much better than the
cameras that Zoom build, and Zoom sell plug-in mics for iPhones which
gives an all-in-one solution that works well.

https:​//www.​amazon.​co.​uk/Zoom-iQ7-iOS-Handy-Recorder​/dp/B00R4G8QTU

I've never seen one of these for the Android phones though. There is a
mini shotgun that I think works with Androids but I'm not sure it could
handle gig-level sound pressures

https:​//www.​amazon.​com/Ampridge-MightyMic-Shotgun​-Microphone-MMS/dp/B00HRM1KN0/​

I've never tried it, but I reckon you could just use the new model H1 as
an external mic plugged into an Android phone, and get great quality
that way. Nokia built a mobile with good quality mics in it but it ran
Windows Mobile range so it didn't sell at all well.

Regards"

I hope some of this may be handy (!)selecting what folks choose in future, from a user's point of view.

[Combed20]

Some great videos here. What editing software would people recommend? Thanks

[moonbass]

I use Final Cut Pro which is great if you can afford it. iMovie is fine on Mac if you want something free, or you can get a free trial of Adobe Premier Pro CC for a month if you just have one video to edit.

[wateroftyne]

Here's a couple of tunes from a gig I recorded on Friday night, using a couple of Zooms - a Q4n and an Q2.

The audio mainly the Q2 (purely down to placement) with a bit of Q4n mixed in for ambience.

These are such good recorders - I wish the Q2n was 4K so I could crop at HD, but apart from that they're great for the money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV0BE2vSbnk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLYbUy2ktLY

[inthedoghouse]

Our compact camera, a Lumix TZ10 gives very good HD results (imho) with both picture and sound. As others have said though, you have to rely on the person doing the filming to hopefully keep the camera something like steady (ours weren't). It's certainly plenty good enough to send to venues to show what you do even when it's been uploaded to YouTube.

Edited April 30, 2017 by inthedoghouse

[wateroftyne]

Just reviving this thread with a video shot on my Q4n on Friday night. The audio is mostly from the Q4n, but because it was just picking up the monitors, I've mixed in a little bit from a Q2HD (switched to audio only) out in the crowd.

 

[Silvia Bluejay]

As an update regarding my equipment, we have never returned to the Zoom, which we found to be unsatisfactory, and we are still using my old Canon SX40, which is still offering a sterling performance; we have, however, upped our game and bought one of these, which has performed impressively in our home test. We'll report back when we have some live footage.

 

Its setup is, however, a lot more complicated (and expensive) than the Canon's point, zoom and click (this is a stock photo)

Edit: forgot to say we're using my older, entry-level DSLR, which has been superseded on photo duty by my Canon 70D.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Silvia Bluejay

[wateroftyne]

6 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

As an update regarding my equipment, we have never returned to the Zoom, which we found to be unsatisfactory, and we are still using my old Canon SX40, which is still offering a sterling performance; we have, however, upped our game and bought one of these, which has performed impressively in our home test. We'll report back when we have some live footage.

 

Its setup is, however, a lot more complicated (and expensive) than the Canon's point, zoom and click (this is a stock photo)

Edit: forgot to say we're using my older, entry-level DSLR, which has been superseded on photo duty by my Canon 70D.

Nice!

Out of interest, do you find the clips I’ve posted in this thread with the Zoom lacking in any way? 

Be tough - I can take it :-)

[Silvia Bluejay]

Nah, you know what I said last time we talked about this earlier in this thread - I realised we weren't happy with the Zoom because we could compare its output to something else which we liked better. Per se, the Zoom recordings of our gigs would have shown no problems, if it wasn't for the fact that the other recordings were better.

No big deal. We'll try the complicated, expensive solution at the first suitable opportunity, and report back.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Silvia Bluejay