Do you think the thickness of a bass neck affects tone? How?

[Dood]

Poll added.


Long detailed answers very welcome!

Edited September 13, 2016 by dood

[Spoombung]

I don't know, although most of my basses have thin necks and I still manage to make them sound astounding.

[Lozz196]

It`s a yes from me, the Fender Classic 50s Precision is far more aggressive sounding than any others that I`ve had, apparently has the same pickups, only real difference is the size of the neck. All that extra maple methinks.

[Grangur]

Yes from me. I've had a few P-bass style basses with real chunky necks and consistently deep tone. I've also had similar basses with thin necks with consistently less depth bass tone.

Also, we talk about the "sound of tone wood", and the resonance of the body wood... if there is any truth in that at all, surely the neck being longer, thinner and more bendable, it has to resonate more than a body, doesn't it?

If not, why don't we need a truss-rod in the body too?

Edited September 13, 2016 by Grangur

[fretmeister]

I don't know. I have thin and medium neck basses but the pickups, pickup position, and wood types are so different that I can't compare properly.

[Lw.]

Yes from me; thickness=mass=heaviness so it's got to have an impact on resonance which I feel has an affect on tone. I couldn't tell you what though or recognise a thin vs thick neck just by hearing them (though I do think if all else was equal then they would sound somehow different).

[skej21]

Genuine question (maybe slightly on & off topic!)... Ive worked in music retail for a few years now and I can hear the difference between wood types used, body shapes and how they change resonance and other elements discussed with an acoustic guitar, a violin, a double bass etc. One of the guys I work with can hear the type of pick that's been used if we blind test him! So I understand that these factors are important for projection of an acoustic instrument's tonal character.

However, I'm really struggling to see how any of those tonal factors can be picked up by a magnetic pickup? Surely it's actually not possible without using a microphone that has the technology to translate actual waveforms into an electrical signal? I can understand the sustain maybe would be picked up as the quality of the instrument would increase sustain which would be carried through to the amplifier but I can't see how any of the other factors could affect it. I was under the impression that the strings interrupt the magnetic field of the pickup and create the signal? So surely the characteristics of an alder body would not interrupt the magnetic field at all, let alone in a different manner to a walnut body or a mahogany body?

Edited September 13, 2016 by skej21

[neepheid]

Can the poll have an "oh no, not this again" option?

[BassTractor]

Coz it's physics, that's why!
For your roof beams, are you gonna buy 2*4 or 2*8? (sorry if this is not English)

[Grangur]

If the tone of a bass is simply determined by strings vibrating in the magnetic flux of a pickup; and that's it. Nothing more to it...

Then why buy anything better than a Harley Benton PB50? Surely nothing there's nothing more to add to a Harley B, to make it as good as a Wal or All-singing-Fender is a good setup and better pups and tuners?

[Cato]

A bass (or any electric guitar) contains so many components that may affect the tone that it's virtually impossible to isolate the specific contribution of any component beyond the obvious one from the pickups.

The effect of rosewood vs maple boards, exotic body woods, neck thru vs bolt on are all impossible for the average person to identify in a blind hearing test, in my opinion.

There's a guitarist called Eric Johnson who says he can hear distinct differences in his tone depending on the construction of his leads and jack plugs and uses different types depending on whether he's recording rhythm or lead.

I believe that he believes he can hear the benefits of this approach, but the rest of us , given the question 'is he using a gold plated jack plug on this solo with his maple boarded strat with the vintage Soviet era capicitors? - no chance.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Cato

[Dood]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1473774313' post='3133003']
Can the poll have an "oh no, not this again" option?
[/quote]


I wasn't aware of a thread that specifically address the size of the bass neck, but yes I do know that 'tonewoods having an effect on sound' has been discussed. So, nope, that option isn't being added :oP

[geoffbyrne]

It's all about rigidity.

G.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1473774841' post='3133010']
If the tone of a bass is simply determined by strings vibrating in the magnetic flux of a pickup; and that's it. Nothing more to it...
[/quote]

.....except..the tone is all in the fingers.

[HowieBass]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473773488' post='3132997']
Genuine question (maybe slightly on & off topic!)... Ive worked in music retail for a few years now and I can hear the difference between wood types used, body shapes and how they change resonance and other elements discussed with an acoustic guitar, a violin, a double bass etc. One of the guys I work with can hear the type of pick that's been used if we blind test him! So I understand that these factors are important for projection of an acoustic instrument's tonal character.

However, I'm really struggling to see how any of those tonal factors can be picked up by a magnetic pickup? Surely it's actually not possible without using a microphone that has the technology to translate actual waveforms into an electrical signal? I can understand the sustain maybe would be picked up as the quality of the instrument would increase sustain which would be carried through to the amplifier but I can't see how any of the other factors could affect it. I was under the impression that the strings interrupt the magnetic field of the pickup and create the signal? So surely the characteristics of an alder body would not interrupt the magnetic field at all, let alone in a different manner to a walnut body or a mahogany body?
[/quote]

You're assuming that the strings are vibrating 'cleanly' with no interaction with the body (include neck in there) of the instrument. That isn't the case. Rest your chin on the upper horn of a bass and play it and you'll feel vibrations passing from the string, through the body of the bass to you. I like to think of the body of the instrument as a filter; any resonances in the body (and I'm still including the neck here and indeed the headstock) will effectively rob the string of vibrational energy at particular frequencies. The more the instrument body resonates, the less energy there is in the string. I've seen a video that involved luthiers Sadowsky and Tobias where one of them called the headstock a heatsink; it's where you can lose the vibrational energy from a string (I think it was Sadowsky and he talked about having a thick neck to headstock transition). A stiff neck will resonate differently to a more flexible neck - that's why you can tune out dead spots by adding graphite rods or making necks stiff with multiple laminates.

[skej21]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1473774841' post='3133010']
If the tone of a bass is simply determined by strings vibrating in the magnetic flux of a pickup; and that's it. Nothing more to it...

Then why buy anything better than a Harley Benton PB50? Surely nothing there's nothing more to add to a Harley B, to make it as good as a Wal or All-singing-Fender is a good setup and better pups and tuners?
[/quote]

I'm not saying all of the tone of the instrument is determined by the pickup. Clearly, woods, construction etc make a huge difference be instrument acoustically but surely that all becomes redundant once you use the pickups? Prime example, if you have a jazz and solo the bridge you wouldn't retain the low end response and resonance that the wood type brings to the acoustic tone. It would be manipulated by the voicing of the pickup (if it transferred into the pickup in the first place) surely?

[HowieBass]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473787852' post='3133155']
I'm not saying all of the tone of the instrument is determined by the pickup. Clearly, woods, construction etc make a huge difference be instrument acoustically but surely that all becomes redundant once you use the pickups? Prime example, if you have a jazz and solo the bridge you wouldn't retain the low end response and resonance that the wood type brings to the acoustic tone. It would be manipulated by the voicing of the pickup (if it transferred into the pickup in the first place) surely?
[/quote]

The pickup (placement and type) certainly does determine tone but it can only reproduce what it's seeing (in the string). If the body and neck resonate strongly at certain frequencies then those modes will be less strong in the string itself (because the energy has passed from string to instrument).

[leroydiamond]

I had the neck on my Sadowsky reshaped by Roger Sadowsky. He reckoned it would not affect the tone. No surprise that he was right

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473787852' post='3133155']
I'm not saying all of the tone of the instrument is determined by the pickup. Clearly, woods, construction etc make a huge difference be instrument acoustically but surely that all becomes redundant once you use the pickups? Prime example, if you have a jazz and solo the bridge you wouldn't retain the low end response and resonance that the wood type brings to the acoustic tone. It would be manipulated

by the voicing of the pickup (if it transferred into the pickup in the first place) surely?
[/quote]
I'm not sure what you are saying here. The pickup will respond to the bit of string above it, filtered by the inductance of the coil and the capacitance of the wiring etc.

How that string vibrates will be affected by anything attached to it, the neck and body of the bass and the termination of the strings, the nut or the fret/fingerboard and bridge. So though I've probably oversimplified all of these will affect the tone.

[skej21]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1473792958' post='3133206']

I'm not sure what you are saying here. The pickup will respond to the bit of string above it, filtered by the inductance of the coil and the capacitance of the wiring etc.

How that string vibrates will be affected by anything attached to it, the neck and body of the bass and the termination of the strings, the nut or the fret/fingerboard and bridge. So though I've probably oversimplified all of these will affect the tone.
[/quote]

I think what I'm trying to ask is, if our ears perceive 'tone' as the waveforms that an instrument produces acoustically through the combination of wood, construction, resonance, sustain etc how does this translate through a magnetic pickup which uses interference of a magnetic field to reproduce a sound?

Edited September 13, 2016 by skej21

[Grangur]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473787193' post='3133149']
.....except..the tone is all in the fingers.
[/quote]
Ahh. you do have a point there. So, maybe I should clarify the point here that I did use the same fingers on all basses in this test.

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473787852' post='3133155']
I'm not saying all of the tone of the instrument is determined by the pickup. Clearly, woods, construction etc make a huge difference be instrument acoustically but surely that all becomes redundant once you use the pickups? Prime example, if you have a jazz and solo the bridge you wouldn't retain the low end response and resonance that the wood type brings to the acoustic tone. It would be manipulated by the voicing of the pickup (if it transferred into the pickup in the first place) surely?
[/quote]
Agreed, so if the wood has some bearing, how does this come to happen if not in the vibration of the wood as a holder of the pups/strings/bridge/tuners ?
If the extent of this vibration is determined by the density/rigidity of the wood, then surely the thickness of the wood will affect the amount of rigidity?

I guess it's also this rigidity that some folk are talking about when they comment that a certain bridge increases the sustain. (Putting aside the possibility that the new bridge could simply be screwed tighter to the body than the old one was.)

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1473774841' post='3133010']
If the tone of a bass is simply determined by strings vibrating in the magnetic flux of a pickup; and that's it. Nothing more to it...

Then why buy anything better than a Harley Benton PB50? Surely nothing there's nothing more to add to a Harley B, to make it as good as a Wal or All-singing-Fender is a good setup and better pups and tuners?
[/quote]

Marketing

[TrevorR]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473773488' post='3132997']
However, I'm really struggling to see how any of those tonal factors can be picked up by a magnetic pickup?... ...I was under the impression that the strings interrupt the magnetic field of the pickup and create the signal? So surely the characteristics of an alder body would not interrupt the magnetic field at all, let alone in a different manner to a walnut body or a mahogany body?
[/quote]
[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473787852' post='3133155']
I'm not saying all of the tone of the instrument is determined by the pickup. Clearly, woods, construction etc make a huge difference be instrument acoustically but surely that all becomes redundant once you use the pickups?
[/quote]
[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473795866' post='3133234']
I think what I'm trying to ask is, if our ears perceive 'tone' as the waveforms that an instrument produces acoustically through the combination of wood, construction, resonance, sustain etc how does this translate through a magnetic pickup which uses interference of a magnetic field to reproduce a sound?
[/quote]

As many have said, the fundamental tone of the bass will be largely determined by the choice of strings and the pickup and its placement. However, the mode of vibration of the strings will be heavily affected by the materials in the body and neck of the bass. This is what creates the complexities in the waveform. Often it is tempting to think that the strings just transmit vibrations into the body of the bass and that's it. Hence questions about how much those vibrations affect the pickups. That's not what is at work.

The strings transmit a significant degree of vibrational energy into the bass. These resonate through the body and neck which causes very complex modulation of the vibrations, emphasising frequencies, reducing others etc. This will vary with the physical properties of the wood, the nature of the neck joint, the shape of the bass etc etc etc... Again, if you want to get an idea of the amount of energy transferred into the bass lean the headstock or butt of the bass against your wardrobe door while playing and you will see that there is enough energy being transferred to the door to drive it like a speaker.

How the body woods affect the tone is that every bit as much as the strings are transmitting vibrations into the body and neck, the neck and body are also driving their modulated vibrations back into the strings through the nut and bridge. That increases the complexity of the waveform in the string (otherwise, why wouldn't the string generate a relatively simple sine wave tone?). This vibrational interplay continues back and forth, creating the particular timbre of the bass which it then picked up from the modulated string movement by the pickup - whether a magnetic pickup or transducer.

Now, you might argue that these resonances wouldn't be strong enough to hear. However, that underestimates the potential strength which resonances can create. Real world examples are manifold... A soprano breaking a wine glass with a resonant high note or a glass harp. Sympathetic vibrations between pendulums. Or most spectacularly, the Tahoma Narrows Bridge collapse. This famous video shows how when the vibration of the cables on a suspension bridge caused by a light wind blowing are transmitted into the body of the bridge, resonate within the bridge, and are then transferred back into the cables at a resonant frequency, increasing the amplitude of their vibration. This continues until a runaway resonant feedback makes the whole bridge twist and buck until the bridge literally rips itself apart. The force involved was merely a light breeze blowing across the suspension cables (as I recall the wind speed was only 15 or 20 mph -hardly a raging gale). But it has a really noticeable effect on the bridge.

For me that shows that it's entirely possible that all the various elements in a bass will audibly contribute to the sound it makes to one degree or another. The neck and body are some of the most major components and their contribution can't simply be dismissed as minimal.

Edited September 13, 2016 by TrevorR

[nige1968]

Chunky = thunky ime

[stingrayPete1977]

Does it make a difference, maybe.
Does it matter, I doubt it.