The P.A.....who should own it ?

[Coilte]

While browsing a "Musicians Wanted' forum I came across the following...

[i]"Bassist required, preferably one with a P.A. Our bassist is leaving the band, and as he owns the P.A., it is going with him. Gigs[/i]
[i]lined up."[/i]


Judging by the music links they gave, they seemed like a good professional band. I got to wondering how such a "professional" band could leave themselves vunerable like this.


What do you think is the best/fairest arrangement regarding the band's P.A. ?

[markstuk]

I own the PA for my gigging band... The drummer owns the monitors..

Works well.. If I left they'd have to spend some money :-)

As long as it all fits in the car I don't mind - I expect them to pay for repairs/replacement if something breaks or gets damaged and I get quite pissy if they don't help with the load in and out at the venue and I've even trained them to plug stuff in and run cables..

I also expect those who need them to provide their own mics, mic stands and xlr cables into the desk - whereas I provide the desk and everything "behind" it (including lights)

Edited September 14, 2016 by markstuk

[Les]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473858425' post='3133611']
What do you think is the best/fairest arrangement regarding the band's P.A. ?
[/quote]

Not sure there is one. It'll be whatever works for the band

[Nicko]

Our vocalist came with a PA which seems logical. Geerally we dont DI the instruments so PA is essentially to support VOX only.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1473859236' post='3133624']
Our vocalist came with a PA which seems logical. Geerally we dont DI the instruments so PA is essentially to support VOX only.
[/quote]


Yeah, that's another interesting point, i.e. if the band don't DI the instruments, and they have gone and spent money on amps, drums, guitars, etc., should not the vocalist do the same and come supplied with his/her "instrument' ?

[leschirons]

Our singer owns a Mackie P.A. I own a small HK P.A and the guitarist owns and hires out a huge HK system as a sideline. We usually use his and all chip in with the lugging and set up but if need be, one of us can always take one of the small ones if the gig / circumstances dictate.

[Raymondo]

Whom ever can afford it works well

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1473862586' post='3133656']
Whom ever can afford it works well
[/quote]
or who has a vehicle it will fit in

[gafbass02]

Once I switched to vocals and guitar I bought a pa and guitar amp. Just seemed logical to me.

[bassjim]

Unicorn band settings:
By law it should be as follows:
1.1 Any gig where its back line only, pa and monitors should be provided by the singer/s.
1.2 Weather they have to hire it or buy it should be down to them and them alone. We don't ask for a contribution towards our amps and instruments do we? (do we?).
1.3 It shall be the singer/s job to transport said PA to and from gigs. ( I put up with going to work to supplement transport, equipment ect so "I" can gig. Not so that "you" can gig.)

Where DI'ing applies;

2.1 Any player DI'ing will be equally responsible for the hire or purchase of the PA.
2.2 Transportation of the PA is an equal responsibility.
2.3 Any repairs and maintenance are the equal responsibility.

Or something close to that....... Meanwhile, back on Earth...............

Seriously though

With my lot.......9/10 keys and vox are the only thing in the PA. Our keys player owns the PA but he also hosts a lot of open mics. He transports it around as well as his keys. We (I say that loosley) all help with the moving of it in and out of gigs. If any of it breaks its down to him but if say a driver went I don't think we as a band would have any problem helping out. Its kind of no PA = no giggy.

Its a bit of a piss take that none of the singers we use have a PA. Some of them don't even have a monitor or mic they bring. Or transport!!! Because they know they can get a way with it... they do. No PA is bad enough but no singer and we are even worse off. We need diva type singers and have a pool of them so we can keep going without the need to worry too much about availability. They know this all to well and its quite normal after a gig for them to simply disappear leaving us to pack up.

Such is life........

One day.....one day ........

I think although there is a fair way to do the band PA on paper, chances are it wont be fair at some point. My last band shared the cost,moving repairs ect equally.
The gitard and singer would also use it or parts of it for duo work so we could of got into an argument there. When we folded it wasnt worth anything like we paid for it or the bits that got added along the way.

Sensible suggestions:

If its a long term band.....pay an equal amount and accept you are not seeing any part of that money again unless a replacement for you buys you out.

If its a band you join either pay into it or pay some sort of hire towards it every time you gig. If its vox only using it, they can pay all the way!!

Only exceptions I can think of are if you have a gear nut that's just into it and has all the best of the best just because you personally want it. Or are insecure and by having the PA secures your place in the band.

Edited September 14, 2016 by bassjim

[tauzero]

I own the PA, but as Mrs Zero is wedded to me and what's mine is hers (and what's hers is hers), the vocalist does nominally own the PA. We actually use the guitarist's mixer, as he's got all sorts of bells and whistles (graphic EQ, compressors), though I have a couple of decent mixers myself if needed.

[TimR]

There are as many ways of doing it as there are bands.

That's just ridiculous looking for a bass player with PA. They need to buy one.

I think the best way is for one person to own the PA, and take a bit extra (or not) from the gig money for storage, upkeep and lugging it around everywhere. I'd always advise against everyone owning a share in the PA, it gets complicated when the band split or someone leaves and some one else joins. You end up effectively agreeing a 'membership' fee.

[Coilte]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1473867436' post='3133704']
That's just ridiculous looking for a bass player with PA. They need to buy one.
[/quote]

That was my initial thought, but [i]WHO[/i] is the one who is going to buy it ? By your own admission ( with which I agree makes sense), it's not a good idea for everyone to own the P.A. I suppose it depends on the situation (how many singers, D.I. users etc).

Edited September 14, 2016 by Coilte

[TimR]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473868195' post='3133710']


That was my initial thought, but [i]WHO[/i] is the one who is going to buy it ? By your own admission ( with which I agree makes sense), it's not a good idea for everyone to own the P.A. I suppose it depends on the situation (how many singers, D.I. users etc).
[/quote]

Hire until someone gets fed up with going to pick it up etc and buys one themselves.

That's what I did. It was £50 to hire it, but I was spending Sat afternoon going to pick it up and Sunday morning taking it back. So I just bought one and hired it out to the band.

.

Edited September 14, 2016 by TimR

[NoRhino]

The ad sounds like they want a PA whose owner happens to play bass.

[PaulWarning]

we bought a PA out of band funds, I know the singer uses it mostly but we do have backing vocals and occasionally mic up the bass drum, when the guitarist and drummer left the band, we all agreed what it would be worth if we sold it (about £400) me and the singer gave them £100 each, of course it could have got silly, but if we'd have to had sold it because of petty squabbling but who would want the hassle of selling it? fortunately they were adult about it, asking a for a new member with a PA (who isn't the singer) is just plain stupid.
Oh yeah if one person owns it guess who gets to cart it around to gigs?

Edited September 14, 2016 by PaulWarning

[phil.c60]

The harmonica player and I own the PA between us. The previous guitarist/vocalist owned the PA, so when he left it did too, at which point it became our band really. We needed to advertise for a new front man, and just figured it would be easier to find someone if we already had everything we needed to gig immediately. That turned out to be the case - the guy's who came to audition became keener when they realised that we could gig as soon as they'd learn the set. £300 second hand (with a long drive) did it, and we are still using it two years later although I did buy some smaller speakers because the 15's we bought turned out to be a bit big for some venues. We only put the vox through it, sometimes the harmonica, me once or twice via a Sansamp DI (bought from Colgraff - a nice guy, RIP) when I had issues with my LM3 and very rarely on pub garden gigs with the 15s. By now the original stuff has easily earned it's money (50+ gigs without a hitch) and the newer speakers are a nice pair of EV 12" which I own and am quite happy to continue owning! (bought from this very place). Compared to what folks spend on guitars, amps and general flim flam, PA suitable for most pub type bands like ours is relatively inexpensive. Ours is a Yamaha EMX512sc - small, light, does enough for us.

[Coilte]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1473870512' post='3133732']
Oh yeah if one person owns it guess who gets to cart it around to gigs?
[/quote]

Depending on the size of the P.A. (the speaker stands alone can take up a lot of room, both on stage, and in the car), it could be split up among the band. A previous band I was in split it up....I took the speaker stands, and each guitarist took a speaker (with one opting to also take the mixing desk). Granted, we all shared the vocals, but in the end it boils down to people adopting some common sense.

[Coilte]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1473872408' post='3133757']
Compared to what folks spend on guitars, amps and general flim flam, PA suitable for most pub type bands like ours is relatively inexpensive.
[/quote]

Fair point. This is what I thought when I saw the advertisement. After the bassist who owned the P.A. was gone, it left three people (excluding the drummer). So, it seems a bit pathetic to be advertising for a bassist..."with a P.A."

[TimR]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473872720' post='3133763']


Depending on the size of the P.A. (the speaker stands alone can take up a lot of room, both on stage, and in the car), it could be split up among the band. A previous band I was in split it up....I took the speaker stands, and each guitarist took a speaker (with one opting to also take the mixing desk). Granted, we all shared the vocals, but in the end it boils down to people adopting some common sense.
[/quote]

That sounds like a rubbish solution. A speaker on its own isn't worth anything.

The space in a car thing is a pertinent point. I played with a drummer who bought a two door sports hatch. He had to dismantle his bass drum to get it into the back seats. I have always owned large hatchbacks or estates. Wen I left the band I think he had problems transporting drums and PA. Some people don't think about that kind of thing when buying a car I guess.

Edited September 14, 2016 by TimR

[sharkboy]

Our keyboard player owns the PA, the singer owns the monitors and a smaller PA which is generally used for smaller gigs/practice. Anyone who sings provides their own mic/stand but cables are all pooled with the key's PA. For bigger gigs, we combine the speakers from both, but for almost every gig there are only vocals, keys and occasionally kick drum through the PA. While both these PAs have been in the ownership of the keys player and singer for some time, the cost of major repairs or replacements is generally met (in part at least) by the band.

[phil.c60]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473873096' post='3133772']
Fair point. This is what I thought when I saw the advertisement. After the bassist who owned the P.A. was gone, it left three people (excluding the drummer). So, it seems a bit pathetic to be advertising for a bassist..."with a P.A."
[/quote]

Yeah - if it were me - and it was so I/we did - I felt that if we wanted a good player/singer and to find someone soon, so we didn't have to cancel/rearrange gigs we should just bite the bullet and do it. It at least made us look like we were serious about the band. I'd be a bit concerned that they wanted a bass player with a PA - it's really going to limit their choice! Would they take a less than good fit for their band just because? Or turn down a great guy because he didn't? How are they going to cover any gigs coming up if they have to dep them? Aren't they are in danger of not looking too serious about the band?
In our case, the harmonica player and I fronted the money as the drummer was skint - surprise surprise - and we didn't think he'd be with us long either. And he wasn't. But that, as they say, is another story.
As far as the kit is concerned: the stands don't take up much room folded up, I bring them and the small speakers most of the time, the harp player takes the desk and leads but brings the big speakers if we use them. I fit two speakers, the stands, my Barefaced Compact, LM3, one or two basses depending and the plastic box full of extraneous gigging crap in my elderly Nissan Almera hatchback with the rear seat folded down leaving enough room for me and Mrs. C in the front.
We all help fetch/carry/set up/take down. I's a very good humoured, amenable band (which shows when we play, or so folks tell us, but that's another thread in itself....) so I don't have any real issues with how it works.

[Coilte]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1473873596' post='3133776']
That sounds like a rubbish solution. A speaker on its own isn't worth anything.
[/quote]

I agree, a speaker on it's own isn't worth anything, but neither is it worth anything being in a band where a little honesty and common sense does not prevail. It worked a treat in that band I was in.

If you can't trust your band mates .....!!!


Just to be clear...when I talk about splitting the P.A., I mean for transport purposes only...not selling.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Coilte

[stingrayPete1977]

With active speakers it is easier than ever to split the PA, I have the digital mixer, spare mackie passive mixer, two RCF 735 tops and the stands, the guitarist has two db opera10 tops /monitors and a little mixer, in our full band we use all four plus the drummer has his own wedge, for acoustic gigs the guitarist uses the 10s as the FOH for vocals only which they are excellent for too. Flexibility is key imo.

[BottomE]

The guitarist owns the PA as he has another sideline as a solo entertainer. Our singer has monitors and mics. I never use PA so don't feel i need to contribute to its upkeep. h

If i were a singer i'd get a PA. everyone else in the band buys their own stuff. Y not the singist?