The P.A.....who should own it ?

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1473867436' post='3133704']
There are as many ways of doing it as there are bands.

That's just ridiculous looking for a bass player with PA. They need to buy one.
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Agreed and it makes them look unprofessional.

We want a bass player that owns a pa. If I had one you best believe I'm charging for the use of it.

Blue

[Phil Starr]

Ha ha, You really do see money differently over there. Probably why the UK is skint .

On the other hand I own the PA and lights. 'Mediocre bassist with PA looking for a band, reliable but lacking talent' what do you think?

[FinnDave]

I'm English and have never been to the States, but if I had paid good money for a PA and a band expected to use it free of charge, they'd be wrong. I'd expect some return for the wear and tear on my investment.

[KevB]

Current band : singer and gutarist are a couple, they own PA (desk, powered speakers and powered monitors). We've all been through it at some point though routinely for small venues my bass doesn't go through PA and only the drummer's bass drum goes through it. All four of us contribute to vox. This of course gives them control in the band. If I'm sacked or leave, they still have the PA, drummer the same. If they fold the band and go back to performing as a duo with (usually self created) backing tracks, they still have the PA. The subject of 'hiring it out' to me and the drummer has never been raised and they are completely open about how much we are getting for a gig and always split it four ways, on occasions even down to loose change.

[TimR]

I think a desk, two tops, stands and two monitors are a pretty small PA. I can't see anyone demanding money for use of that. It'd be nice if the rest of the band show some token of appreciation though.

The problem is its one of those band tasks that get shared out, but it's the only band task that has to be done at set times. Before and after each gig. All other tasks, promotion, websites, set lists, can be done at your leisure.

There's a difference between having use of the PA and just expecting it to be there.

I only started charging the band when they stopped helping with setup and breakdown, expected a Wembly arena a sound and studio quality monitoring. The PA get bigger and the expectations became unrealistic.

[BigRedX]

Who should own the PA?

The venue or the PA hire company.

[KevB]

We do all help set up and break down as much as possible, particularly lugging it all out of the van and back in at the end of the night. It's actually a desk, 2 EV 15" subs, 2 EV tops and either 2 or 3 (depending on venue) Mackie floor monitors, not cheap. I do still have my own powered monitor and a slave unit which I've brought along for some gigs. Decent lights are also provided though I do bring one of my own small laser types for an extra effect onto the ceiling which goes down well.

Edited September 22, 2016 by KevB

[stingrayPete1977]

BRX- How much do you pay the hire company for each gig though? and we've had problems getting a system at busy periods,last minute gigs are almost impossible to agree to.

I suppose it comes down to what type of gigs you do and how often, when we were young trying to make it big we never had our own PA as we only played venues that had one.

Edited September 22, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[BigRedX]

It's well over 20 years ago since I last had to personally organise hiring a PA system so my prices won't be that much use. However when The Terrortones did our first single launch gig back in 2012 we had to hire in a PA as the one in the venue we had chosen wasn't much use for anything other than acoustic guitar and vocals. Mr Venom sorted it all out but I can't imagine we paid more than £75 as the whole event was on a bit of a tight budget and we did actually manage to turn a profit on the evening.

When I first started gigging in the early 80s no-where had it's own PA system so you had to hire something in. It's only from the late 90s onwards that I've started to see PA systems permanently installed in venues. These days all the places we play provide the PA and someone to work it.

[stingrayPete1977]

So would it be so bad if I was in your band and got paid £75 a gig extra if I provided a good quality PA?

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1474535934' post='3138600']
I think a desk, two tops, stands and two monitors are a pretty small PA. I can't see anyone demanding money for use of that. It'd be nice if the rest of the band show some token of appreciation though.

The problem is its one of those band tasks that get shared out, but it's the only band task that has to be done at set times. Before and after each gig. All other tasks, promotion, websites, set lists, can be done at your leisure.

There's a difference between having use of the PA and just expecting it to be there.

I only started charging the band when they stopped helping with setup and breakdown, expected a Wembly arena a sound and studio quality monitoring. The PA get bigger and the expectations became unrealistic.
[/quote]

If the gtr ( for eample) owned that and loaded it up etc etc etc ...that is 4 loads per night and probably double in size to what he'd do if he only had his kit. ( Gtrs, amp, cab, pedals etc) That also means he is..or needs to be.. first in and last out.
Drums are last in, first out, so there is an imbalance straight away in terms of time 'having' to be at the gig. Of course, everyone tries to muck in but the work load is different so if someone had £2-3k in the P.A that saved the band having to contribute that, then I'd think it would be quite hard to argue against it. The proof would be in the fact that if you didn't have this 'gift' you'd have to source one and collect and take back etc etc ..so even on a pub date you'd have hire charges.

The way to do it would be no payment to the P.A holder on pubs unless over a set threshold, but conversely on bigger better payers, the return to him would take into account the 'free' gigs.
Example. £1k fee. The P.A lights and admin would be paid from a 6th share of the fee...which would probably be something like
6X£150 and £100 to the kitty.

The P.A hire would generate something like £80 extra for the owner, lights would be less and so on... but would take into account non-pay-outs on lesser payers.
No one is earning any less that £60 so that is what the kitty is for..subsidise or to pay for cheapo/fun gigs..

All in all...far cheaper way of doing things.

Fair enough, the owner doesn't want payment..but if the issue comes to a head... best pay it. IMO. (Also depends what the P.A is as to how much it generates)
There are some P.A's I wouldn't use, tbh..

Edited September 22, 2016 by JTUK

[stingrayPete1977]

Those D and B cabs won't pay for themselves will they?

[EBS_freak]

Tickled Trout must be paying well.

[JPJ]

In our case, I bought the PA, took an extra share of the gig money until it was paid off, and the PA is now owned by the band. The rule is if you leave the band, you forfeit your share of the PA. We're just starting into an upgrade bought and paid for on the same basis.

Regarding the lugging, setting up etc. one of the guitarists owns a van, he collects me and my gear plus the PA from my house. We all help lugging it into and out of the venue and whilst I do most of the setup, I prefer it this way as I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I like to know the gear isn't being abused.

Works for us, but then again we are all good friends both in and outside of the band, and there are no egos or prima donna's in the band.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Coilte]

@ Just Lukin : Interesting and logical post. However, it assumes that there is only the lead singer, and that this is his/her sole function in the band. Often, the vocals are shared between the musicians themselves, with no actual front person/singer.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[TimR]

Just reading into this following a post in another thread.

How do you decide how much the PA residual value is when 'buying out' or 'buying in' to a band?

Do you just go by second hand market value of get an independant valuation? I'm not sure I would want to 'buy in' to a band PA. I'd probably ask for some kind of projected value and just have a few quid taken off my gig money at each gig.