Is there enough room to fit MM pickup at bridge on this bass?

[converse320]

As title. Here is a link to an identical bass to mine, my first proper bass.
[url="https://www.gbase.com/gear/warwick-rockbass-fortress-4-strin-burgundy"]https://www.gbase.com/gear/warwick-rockbass-fortress-4-strin-burgundy[/url]
It's an early Rockbass Fortress. It's very comfortable and I love the shape and neck. But it also now has a few technical issues and there are some things I've decided I don't like anyway, so I'm giving it a bit of a makeover. It currently has active MEC pickups and some sort of onboard eq that has started to play up intermittently, so all of those are going to be replaced.

I have bought a Glockenklang preamp and am sorted for the P pickup. While deliberating about the Jazz pickup, I started thinking about something a bit more radical. Do you think a Stingray type humbucker would work in place of the Jazz pickup, or would it end up too close to the bridge if I keep the P pickup in the same place?

Any thoughts welcomed. This might be a very stupid idea.

[ikay]

You could squeeze it in but it would be way closer to the bridge than on a regular Stingray (so don't expect it to sound like a Stingray). Depends what you're trying to achieve really. Just adding beefier pickups won't necessarily give you a better core sound or a more usable range of tones. With two-pickup basses the sound is heavily influenced by the positioning and distance between the pickups which determines how they interact (frequency cancellation etc). If you want to be really radical you could make a universal swimming pool rout and really play around. Take a look at this sliding pickup bass - [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS02YaLw1uM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS02YaLw1uM[/url]. Fabulous sound, I want one!

Edited September 16, 2016 by ikay

[mcnach]

You may want to consider a "dual J" type of pickup, like the Modern Player Jazz or Maruszczyk Jake P/JJ and others. Essentially two bridge pickups side by side, wired as a humbucker. It'll be narrower so it'll fit in the space and they can be pretty fat and balance better with a Precision pickup than a single J.

[converse320]

OK, thanks I think the slimmer humbucker idea is going to work best.

[PlungerModerno]

You could get a MM pickup in the Ray position - but it would require removing or relocating the P pickup. Especially the D&G side.

You could just flip it to the front of the E&A pickup half, end up looking like:


But with the MM pickup maybe slightly farther from the bridge (different bridge style, you'd have to measure it from the 12th fret).

[mcnach]

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1474518769' post='3138508']
You could get a MM pickup in the Ray position - but it would require removing or relocating the P pickup. Especially the D&G side.

You could just flip it to the front of the E&A pickup half, end up looking like:


But with the MM pickup maybe slightly farther from the bridge (different bridge style, you'd have to measure it from the 12th fret).
[/quote]

Yeah the MM pickup in that picture is still not in the Stingray position, it need to be farther from the bridge. But it's an interesting concept. Ou7shined here made a "Pingray" doing exactly that... it looks good and I'm sure it sounds good too but I never listened to it.

However if it's not important to get THE Stingray sound... flipping the DG coils around will give the OP enough room to fit the MM pickup.
I'd personally go with the JJ option as it requires less work and I know works well... but as there are a lot more choices when it comes to MM pickups, it may be worth considering...

[converse320]

I think, but not 100%, that I'm going to go for the Nordstrand Dual Coil soapbar - they do a narrow one that would just fit inside the ears of the current J. It would mean a small extension to the J rout, but no pick guard to hide holes. I already have a Pribora precision split coil for the neck.

[discreet]

What about a dual-coil Jazz pickup? It would be humbucking but still fit into the existing rout. Something like a DiMarzio.

[url="http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/bass/standard-bass/ultra-jazz-bridge"]http://www.dimarzio....tra-jazz-bridge[/url]

Or a Bart, if you don't want to see pole pieces...

https://www.bartolini.net/product/9j-l1/

Edited September 22, 2016 by discreet

[mcnach]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1474552809' post='3138753']
What about a dual-coil Jazz pickup? It would be humbucking but still fit into the existing rout. Something like a DiMarzio.

[url="http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/bass/standard-bass/ultra-jazz-bridge"]http://www.dimarzio....tra-jazz-bridge[/url]

Or a Bart, if you don't want to see pole pieces...

[url="https://www.bartolini.net/product/9j-l1/"]https://www.bartolin.../product/9j-l1/[/url]
[/quote]

They don't seem to balance with the P as well as something with a wider footprint. They are generally not as fat (as I'd like) and being so close to the bridge it shows. The Nordstrand is probably a good call.

[PlungerModerno]

If you want to get something approaching a 'Ray sound - you'll need a pretty hot pickup (or a low output P pickup), and put it close to the 'Ray location - Farther from the bridge than 60's Jazz bridge pickup location.

I've spliced two images (one of Sadowsky Jazzes and one of Lefty Musicmans) to clarify:
[attachment=228458:34in_basses_Pickup_Comparison.png]

[converse320]

Plunger thats very helpful thank you. Two follow up questions. Are there any issues with placing the bridge and neck pickups right next to each other, touching? Or is there a minimum spacing required between the two? I could get very close to the correct positions for both pickups if I used a narrower bridge like a soapbar or dual coil jazz and put them touching, and just routed out completely new cavities for both pickups. I have routers. I can make templates.

[mcnach]

[quote name='converse320' timestamp='1474617098' post='3139199']
Plunger thats very helpful thank you. Two follow up questions. Are there any issues with placing the bridge and neck pickups right next to each other, touching? Or is there a minimum spacing required between the two? I could get very close to the correct positions for both pickups if I used a narrower bridge like a soapbar or dual coil jazz and put them touching, and just routed out completely new cavities for both pickups. I have routers. I can make templates.
[/quote]

NO issue at all..

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='converse320' timestamp='1474617098' post='3139199']
Plunger thats very helpful thank you. Two follow up questions. Are there any issues with placing the bridge and neck pickups right next to each other, touching? Or is there a minimum spacing required between the two? I could get very close to the correct positions for both pickups if I used a narrower bridge like a soapbar or dual coil jazz and put them touching, and just routed out completely new cavities for both pickups. I have routers. I can make templates.
[/quote]

With passive pickups - any metal (ferromagnetic or not) can distort the magnetic field, and thus the pickup's sound - with actives less so.
The good news is the metal needs to be very close (usually I only notice it when something touches a pole piece!).
When it comes to magnetic fields they have, I think, an inverse square effect (twice as far away gives you roughly one quater of the output).
If you put a MM pickup with a very strong magnetic field (e.g. Highly magnetic ceramic or Neodymium) next to a traditionally magnetised P pickup it will probably change the sound of a normal P pickup quite a bit, especially if the D&G half pickup coils are two thicknesses of plastic away from each other (about 3mm total of pickup covers). With similar magnets in the pickups (e.g. alnico V's magnetised to about the same level) - it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Maybe try it on a cheaper bass first? That Fortress is rather nice looking with the wood grain. Would be a shame to mod it and then leave a space.