skankdelvar Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474510332' post='3138505'] Sorry Skank, I generally love your posts and I rarely get through one without having a good chuckle, but we'll have to agree to differ here. I'm often mystified by attempts to assert a position through comparison to another different set of circumstances. You may well be right about the experiences of WW2, but it's not what we're talking about here. It's The Fab Four - not The Fuhrer! [/quote] [b]analogy[/b] [i]noun[/i] * a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification. * a correspondence or partial similarity. * a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects Quite clearly Beatlemania is not WW2. I think most people understand where I'm going. Being in the middle of something gives one a different perspective than viewing it from afar, whether in time or geography. [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474510332' post='3138505']Blue is asserting, as he has done many times before, that 'you had to be there to understand how big/influential The Beatles were" and I do not believe that to be the case. I've read, I've watched, I've listened. I honestly DO get it. I was also alive at the time, but I don't think that has a bearing on my understanding. [/quote] We're not talking about any understanding you may or may not have as an individual. This isn't about you specifically; it's about a general principle. It is the broad proposition that participation in certain events gives an additional dimension to understanding those events. (This participation does not necessarily enhance understanding; it may even lead to a fundamental [i]misapprehension[/i]). The expression 'you had to be there' is a (debatably over-simplistic) summation of this proposition. Understanding the context in which people form their opinions is useful when attempting to understand those opinions. Different contexts produce different experiences which produce different opinions. What's particularly controversial or 'incorrect' about that? [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474510332' post='3138505']I read on Basschat far more than I would ever post and for the most part find it all very interesting indeed. However, I almost dread clicking on anything Beatle/Hohner related for seeing the same tired, almost verbatim, comments from our friend in Milwaukee. I'm all for free speech, but not the same speech every time! It's a real shame, because I love reading about The Beatles, as I do about WW2. [/quote] If Blue's posts irritate you there's no need to call him out on it. Just ignore him, either by using the 'ignore' button thoughtfully provided by the forum team or by doing it the old fashioned way, i.e. not reading his posts. For myself, I welcome his oft-expressed and un-moving position, not least because it provides a fixed point in an ever-changing world. It's like a navigational beacon, if you will. Were he suddenly to espouse Herman's Hermits as the [i]ne plus ultra [/i]of musical endeavour, I'd be - in short order - transfixed, apprehensive and desolated. Edited September 22, 2016 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474488085' post='3138405'] And I believe Beatlemania hit us Yanks differently than you guys. Because of size we had more TV, radio, magazines and concert venues as well. To me they were bigger than life. Blue [/quote] That there is a difference in perception between both sides of the Atlantic is as understandable as there being a difference of perception with the benefit of hindsight as Skankdelvar pointed out very well. Me? I love almost everything I've heard by the Beatles and the four excellent solo artists that survived. I gave them a score of four out of four for that. I'll have the new release on Blu Ray thanks. Have it unwrapped and sent to my room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Rock and Roll and blues origins are in the States. What is amazing is the fact that our appreciation for our own stuff is nowhere near the respect and appreciation you guys have for it. If it weren't for you guys I wouldn't know anything about the blues. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474561060' post='3138846'] Rock and Roll and blues origins are in the States. What is amazing is the fact that our appreciation for our own stuff is nowhere near the respect and appreciation you guys have for it. If it weren't for you guys I wouldn't know anything about the blues. Blue [/quote] It's funny, only last night I was thinking about the British Invasion and ruminating on the Blues component. One could argue that the early wave of British neo-bluesers (Stones, Animals, Them) are of equal importance to the Beatles in the wider musical scene. There's a sort of progression from weedy Chuck Berry covers to purists like Clapton through the Zeppelin to the whole 60's-70's-80's US rock scene. The whole Blues / Blues rock / Rock intersection thing is fascinating. Without - say - The Stones we might never have had Aerosmith at one end of the spectrum or Dr Feelgood at the other. The latter's importance to the USA is perpetuated by the fact that the Ramones, Talking Heads and other CBGB bands all listened avidly to the Feelgoods' first album. Then the Clash listened to the Ramones first album. And so it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474569571' post='3138921'] Fair enough Skank. Very well put as usual, although I still don't like analogies. I'm prepared to meet in the middle and agree that some [i]may[/i] experience some perceived benefit from being around at the time. If they think it gives them some added insight, fair play to them. I just don't believe that you [i]had[/i] to be there to understand it. [/quote] Let us agree [i]in general[/i] that when assessing historic events at a later time one's understanding [i]may[/i] be enhanced by having been a participant in those events Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1474555536' post='3138780'] I'm with Blue[/quote] This doesn't surprise me - based entirely on this....... [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1474555536' post='3138780']I was 8 or 9 when I experienced Beatlemania at primary school and I [b]wasn't joking[/b] when I said Beatles cards were [b]legal tender[/b][/quote] Hey Blue!! The "Dr" is chasing after your Sweeping Flashing BS Over-statement Of The Year crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1474563327' post='3138865']One could argue that the early wave of British neo-bluesers (Stones, Animals, Them) are of equal importance to the Beatles in the wider musical scene.[/quote] Ask All-American hero Bruce Springsteen which one influenced him the most. That Lonnie Donegan has a lot to answer for too, since the strawman "influence" word was brought in again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474573036' post='3138972'] Ask All-American hero Bruce Springsteen which one influenced him the most. [/quote] As The Boss is not answering my calls at the moment I'll have to ask you. Which one influenced him the most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474572792' post='3138967'] This doesn't surprise me - based entirely on this....... Hey Blue!! The "Dr" is chasing after your Sweeping Flashing BS Over-statement Of The Year crown. [/quote] The only problem, Big Stu is it's true - and they got banned from the playground at my school owing to disputes and the like. No doubt you wouldn't believe it because it wasn't in the NME or some other font of all pop history. It's not unusual for crazes of collectables to cause problems at schools - in my kid's day it was Pannini premier league stickers and ninja turtles stuff - in mine it was Beatles merchandise, particularly the picture cards sold with a piece of bubble gum - there were a set of 50 and it was nigh on impossible to get the lot - which of course is what everybody was after! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Esso 1970 world cup collectors' coins was the thing in my day. Terrible scenes of playground bribery, extortion and savage physical violence. What made it all so horribly pointless was the actual competition was a total wash-out for The England. [i]Back home they'll be thinking about us When we are far away Back home they'll be really behind us In every game we play They'll share every goal we are scoring Out there we will still hear them roaring And we'll give all we've got to give Then we'll slink off with our tails between our legs after we've got Bobby Moore out of that Bogota jail and cop some serious abuse [/i] [i]from the folks back home[/i] [size=3]Trad: arr Beckenbauer, Seeler, Müller[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1474575088' post='3138995'] As The Boss is not answering my calls at the moment I'll have to ask you. Which one influenced him the most? [/quote] I'm not a Springsteen fan. However, I can't deny he's not a great entertainer. Bruce seems to know Paul pretty well. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474572792' post='3138967'] This doesn't surprise me - based entirely on this....... Hey Blue!! The "Dr" is chasing after your Sweeping Flashing BS Over-statement Of The Year crown. [/quote] Pardon me for saying but I think you've just collected that one yourself. Why are fellow members being targetted? Is this not an adult discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474586626' post='3139109'] I may be misremembering this, but was the collecting folder a dark blue fold out affair? If so, I think I still have mine somewhere - incomplete obviously! [/quote] I think the dark blue fold out was 1990(?). The 1970 folder - which I never got - looked like this: [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474595423' post='3139127'] <snip> Bruce seems to know Paul pretty well. Blue [/quote] Indeed so. Our legal people have been 'in discussions' since the mid 1970's when I sued Mr Springsteen for plagiarising the main hook from my single '(Maybe) It's A Swarm Of Nuns'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1474584556' post='3139096'] Esso 1970 world cup collectors' coins was the thing in my day. Terrible scenes of playground bribery, extortion and savage physical violence. What made it all so horribly pointless was the actual competition was a total wash-out for The England. [/quote] Less of a 'wash out', more a feeling of what might have been had G Banks not been gastrically challenged by naughty J Foreigner. No forgetti Peter Bonetti... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1474641842' post='3139534'] I think the dark blue fold out was 1990(?). The 1970 folder - which I never got - looked like this: [/quote] Wahay - some great memorabilia on show here. I have one of those somewhere as well - pretty sure it's incomplete though! I do, however recall 1970 being the first World Cup (of far too many groan.....) with an expectation of England being capable of winning - 1966 was simply a bolt out of the blue. And at least there were some decent excuses back then - as you say Mr JF nobbling G Banks, R Moore etc etc - these days the average world class football star is pictured in Tatler or wherever sunning and cavorting on a foreign beach the day after England get beaten before the knockout stage even starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Ultimate thread derail. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/029/970/trainn.jpg?1260328965 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1474664271' post='3139793'] Wahay - some great memorabilia on show here. I have one of those somewhere as well - pretty sure it's incomplete though! I do, however recall 1970 being the first World Cup (of far too many groan.....) with an expectation of England being capable of winning - 1966 was simply a bolt out of the blue. And at least there were some decent excuses back then - as you say Mr JF nobbling G Banks, R Moore etc etc - these days the average world class football star is pictured in Tatler or wherever sunning and cavorting on a foreign beach the day after England get beaten before the knockout stage even starts. [/quote] None of the Nike 'climacool' nonsense back then for the sweaty footballer, just Aertex shirts that looked like giant teabags. Black football boots (except for Alan Ball and possibly one of the Newton brothers) were de rigueur and sensible length shorts were, well, sensible. Happy days... My favourite Beatles album is Revolver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1474575088' post='3138995'] As The Boss is not answering my calls at the moment I'll have to ask you. Which one influenced him the most? [/quote] Dang - probably not paid his bill again............ [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVSoilSuXO4[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1474582424' post='3139078'] The only problem, Big Stu is it's true - and they got banned from the playground at my school owing to disputes and the like. No doubt you wouldn't believe it because it wasn't in the NME or some other font of all pop history.[/quote] While nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses are a wonderful thing, I doubt with all my heart that they were [b][i]legal[/i][/b] tender, no matter how seriously you meant it, There's only very few providers that have ever produced[i] legal tender[/i] in recent years (I've worked at one of them) and a printer making Beatles collectors cards has never been one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474522993' post='3138512'] Are you saying that an 8 year old would have been to young to appreciate and understand what was going on? If yes, you might be right. But not when it pertains to this 8 year old. Blue [/quote] heck - I guess that means you're [i]really[/i] special! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1474623485' post='3139279'] Pardon me for saying but I think you've just collected that one yourself. Why are fellow members being targetted? Is this not an adult discussion? [/quote] You're excused, more out sympathy than anything else, due to your inability to even grasp the meaning of my quote that you quoted. In answer to your question, and since you also missed that point of mine; it stopped being an adult discussion when Blue, yet again, though continuing a strong tradition of his of several previous threads, stated that anyone who played electric guitar did so because of the Beatles - or something to that effect - based on his incredible pin-sharp and super advanced ability to detect professionalism at the age of 8 at a one-off concert when everyone else including the band themselves said the only thing they could hear clearly was girls screaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474666529' post='3139813'] While nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses are a wonderful thing, I doubt with all my heart that they were [b][i]legal[/i][/b] tender, no matter how seriously you meant it, There's only very few providers that have ever produced[i] legal tender[/i] in recent years (I've worked at one of them) and a printer making Beatles collectors cards has never been one of them. [/quote] Indeed they are - and I certainly hadn't appreciated you were coming from a professional angle Big Stu - I've corrected the original post which of course should have said 'were considered by some 8 yr olds as legal tender' 😊 Were you a member of the banking, minting or bank note printing industry? Edited September 23, 2016 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1474669265' post='3139832']Were you a member of the banking, minting or bank note printing industry? [/quote] First rule of the bank note printing industry is you don't talk about the bank note printing industry - and that's not entirely a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474667019' post='3139817'] or something to that effect [/quote] i think it was that regardless of age or musical knowledge/background "you had to be there" to appreciate artists like the beatles, jaco etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1474672035' post='3139843'] i think it was that regardless of age or musical knowledge/background "you had to be there" to appreciate artists like the beatles, jaco etc... [/quote] No, it was a different bit, the [i]"you had to be there"[/i] is old even by his standards, but it's an oldie that he plays a lot, though not the classic that "You just don't get it" has become. The one I refer to is about how anyone that ever strapped on a guitar owes it to the Beatles, which must be a bit of a pisser for Hank Williams, Buddy Holly, BB KIng, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. After being pulled up about such a gross and repetitive overstatement by our Hiram, Blue later conceded that it was only a fact in his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.