Big_Stu Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474854748' post='3141059'] I say, no Beatles then no Punk Rock. Blue [/quote] Yeah... but - you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474918871' post='3141558'] Yeah... but - you would. [/quote] History will say The Beatles were the pioneers traveling in unchartered waters. More support for the "you had to be there" crowd. We watched the the whole thing evolve in real time over the a short 10 year time span. Remember, for the younger generations. You have bands that we weren't there for. Blue Edited September 26, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474854748' post='3141059'] I say, no Beatles then no Punk Rock. [/quote] No shadows, no Beatles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1474927378' post='3141643'] No shadows, no Beatles [/quote] That might be a good debate, however what happened to The Shadows, why didn't they have the international fame "the boys" have. I know from you guys The Shadows were huge in the UK, but not so much in the States Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474930166' post='3141667'] That might be a good debate, however what happened to The Shadows, why didn't they have the international fame "the boys" have. I know from you guys The Shadows were huge in the UK, but not so much in the States Blue [/quote] Are we taking fame or pioneers? The shadows (and cliff Richard) defined rock and roll in the same way Elvis did. And without those the beatles wouldn't have existed. I won't ever deny the impact the beatles had on the music we play, but I wasn't there so I don't really know what I'm talking about I suppose Edited September 26, 2016 by RockfordStone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1474930965' post='3141672'] Are we taking fame or pioneers? The shadows (and cliff Richard) defined rock and roll in the same way Elvis did. And without those the beatles wouldn't have existed. I won't ever deny the impact the beatles had on the music we play, but I wasn't there so I don't really know what I'm talking about I suppose [/quote]the Beatles were far more influenced by American music as were the Stones than anything the Brits were doing, one of the great musical ironies is that the Brits took black American music, repackaged it and were able to sell it back to them, because they were white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1474930965' post='3141672'] Are we taking fame or pioneers? The shadows (and cliff Richard) defined rock and roll in the same way Elvis did. And without those the beatles wouldn't have existed. I won't ever deny the impact the beatles had on the music we play, but I wasn't there so I don't really know what I'm talking about I suppose [/quote] You might be a historian for all I know and know exactly what your talking about. My position, personal position is ,I was there my Beatle experience is different not better. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1474933395' post='3141685'] the Beatles were far more influenced by American music as were the Stones than anything the Brits were doing, one of the great musical ironies is that the Brits took black American music, repackaged it and were able to sell it back to them, because they were white [/quote] While the Shadows may have influenced the Beatles at [i]some[/i] point we should note that Lennon, McCartney and Harrison were already gigging as the Quarrymen the same month that Cliff Richard was first introduced to the Drifters (later The Shadows) and about four months before their first single release in August 1958. A partial Quarrymen setlist from one of their earliest gigs includes songs by Eddie Cochrane, Gene Vincent, Elvis Presley, Little Richard and skiffler Lonnie Donegan. By contrast the Drifters originally came from a skiffle background which drew more on folk, blues and trad jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 (edited) For you Blue. Think USA = The Ventures, UK = The Shadows. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3tBzYcl7-8"]https://www.youtube....h?v=o3tBzYcl7-8[/url] Incidently, one group I play with still have a couple of dozen Shadows and Ventures numbers in our reportoire. Hank Marvin introduced the 1st Stratocaster to the UK and Jet, (the original Bassman), probably the 1st Precision. They were instrumental in firing up my generation into wanting to learn guitar and play in a band, and that includes just about every Brit lead guitarist you can name - Mark Knofler, Brian May etc, etc. This was my 1st LP, Xmas 1961, I still have it. [attachment=228717:Unknown.jpeg] You had to be there to appreciate the impact Hank Marvin's sound had. Can you imagine hearing a Strat' through a Vox AC30, with tape echo and a trem' bar having never heard anything like it before. You just had to be there! Edited September 27, 2016 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 (edited) Influences on the Beatles, I'm thinking Bert Weedon, [url="http://www.bertweedon.com/biog.htm"]http://www.bertweedon.com/biog.htm[/url] and Lonnie Donegan, [url="https://www.theguardian.com/news/2002/nov/05/guardianobituaries.arts"]https://www.theguard...obituaries.arts[/url] and then The Shadows. http://www.billboard.com/artist/419084/shadows/biography But, alongside many other artistes, this could true for all aspiring groups of the time. The list of American musicians/singers that were influential/inspirational might indeed be longer. I therefore proclaim, NO BERT WEEDON - NO PUNK! Edited September 27, 2016 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474919954' post='3141563'] History will say The Beatles were the pioneers traveling in unchartered waters[/quote] In biro Blue, in biro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 [quote name='grandad' timestamp='1474962095' post='3141750'] For you Blue. Think USA = The Ventures, UK = The Shadows. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3tBzYcl7-8"]https://www.youtube....h?v=o3tBzYcl7-8[/url] Incidently, one group I play with still have a couple of dozen Shadows and Ventures numbers in our reportoire. Hank Marvin introduced the 1st Stratocaster to the UK and Jet, (the original Bassman), probably the 1st Precision. They were instrumental in firing up my generation into wanting to learn guitar and play in a band, and that includes just about every Brit lead guitarist you can name - Mark Knofler, Brian May etc, etc. This was my 1st LP, Xmas 1961, I still have it. [attachment=228717:Unknown.jpeg] You had to be there to appreciate the impact Hank Marvin's sound had. Can you imagine hearing a Strat' through a Vox AC30, with tape echo and a trem' bar having never heard anything like it before. You just had to be there! [/quote] Recorded in London's' Abbey Road Studio 2. The same studio as Blues favourite group would use the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='grandad' timestamp='1474962095' post='3141750'] For you Blue. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='grandad' timestamp='1474962095' post='3141750'] You had to be there to appreciate the impact Hank Marvin's sound had. Can you imagine hearing a Strat' through a Vox AC30, with tape echo and a trem' bar having never heard anything like it before. You just had to be there! [/quote] ...and when Neil Young wrote 'From Hank to Hendrix', he wasn't talking about H. Williams. As for the influence of Cliff & Co., Ringo acknowledges that 'Move It' was probably the first home-grown RnR song they heard, but by then they were already listening to the source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='grandad' timestamp='1474963843' post='3141777'] I therefore proclaim, NO BERT WEEDON - NO PUNK! [/quote] 'Play in a day with Bert Weedon'. Is this not espousing the quintessential punk music ethic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1475064163' post='3142719'] 'Play in a day with Bert Weedon'. Is this not espousing the quintessential punk music ethic? [/quote]not unless you're planning on doing a Punk version of Bobby Shaftoe, that book was next too useless, pretending you could learn to play in a day when there was no mention of barre chords (as I recall), I could really teach people to play in a day, it involved a distortion pedal and tuning the guitar to open E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1475067331' post='3142755']... there was no mention of barre chords (as I recall)... [/quote] Pages 32-37 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='grandad' timestamp='1474962095' post='3141750'] For you Blue. Think USA = The Ventures, UK = The Shadows. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3tBzYcl7-8"]https://www.youtube....h?v=o3tBzYcl7-8[/url] Incidently, one group I play with still have a couple of dozen Shadows and Ventures numbers in our reportoire. Hank Marvin introduced the 1st Stratocaster to the UK and Jet, (the original Bassman), probably the 1st Precision. They were instrumental in firing up my generation into wanting to learn guitar and play in a band, and that includes just about every Brit lead guitarist you can name - Mark Knofler, Brian May etc, etc. This was my 1st LP, Xmas 1961, I still have it. [attachment=228717:Unknown.jpeg] You had to be there to appreciate the impact Hank Marvin's sound had. Can you imagine hearing a Strat' through a Vox AC30, with tape echo and a trem' bar having never heard anything like it before. You just had to be there! [/quote] Thanks Grand Dad Sounds Cool and agreed. Blue Edited September 28, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474667019' post='3139817'] You're excused, more out sympathy than anything else, due to your inability to even grasp the meaning of my quote that you quoted. In answer to your question, and since you also missed that point of mine; it stopped being an adult discussion when Blue, yet again, though continuing a strong tradition of his of several previous threads, stated that anyone who played electric guitar did so because of the Beatles - or something to that effect - based on his incredible pin-sharp and super advanced ability to detect professionalism at the age of 8 at a one-off concert when everyone else including the band themselves said the only thing they could hear clearly was girls screaming. [/quote] You may have picked up on the electric from other artists, however that artist may have picked up the guitar because of The Beatles. In other words that historical trail in most cases can be traced back to the Beatles. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammers Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1474911979' post='3141477'] the one exception for me is Joe Cockers version of a Little Help From My Friends [/quote] +1 It's Cocker's "Watchtower" for me, he completely owns it. The original pales in comparison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1474933395' post='3141685'] the Beatles were far more influenced by American music as were the Stones than anything the Brits were doing, one of the great musical ironies is that the Brits took black American music, repackaged it and were able to sell it back to them, because they were white [/quote] I think Pat Boone ripped off Little Richard and sold Tooty Fruity to White teens in the States. I would think if you wanted to be cool and piss off your parents you would buy Richards recordings. I think there's a similar story with The Beach Boys and Chuck Berry. Blue Edited September 28, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1474930965' post='3141672'] Are we taking fame or pioneers? The shadows (and cliff Richard) defined rock and roll in the same way Elvis did. And without those the beatles wouldn't have existed. I won't ever deny the impact the beatles had on the music we play, but I wasn't there so I don't really know what I'm talking about I suppose [/quote] I know John really liked Elvis. However,Elvis was not a band and I don't believe Elvis wrote any of his material. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1475070148' post='3142779'] Pages 32-37 ... [/quote]I stand corrected, must admit I never got close to page 32 before I gave up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474672963' post='3139845'] No, it was a different bit, the [i]"you had to be there"[/i] is old even by his standards, but it's an oldie that he plays a lot, though not the classic that "You just don't get it" has become. The one I refer to is about how anyone that ever strapped on a guitar owes it to the Beatles, which must be a bit of a pisser for Hank Williams, Buddy Holly, BB KIng, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. After being pulled up about such a gross and repetitive overstatement by our Hiram, Blue later conceded that it was only a fact in his mind. [/quote] Strange as an American youth I was aware of The Beatles before any of the other Stars you referenced. Why? Keep in mind I was living in Southern Spain in 1964. Blue Edited September 28, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1474701425' post='3139890'] [url="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjtwrfjuqfPAhWmJ8AKHWsHA5oQtwIIJTAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiyzxpvKlO48&usg=AFQjCNEOCSwFdAQzBEkcV003Sk3J_mIP2w"]http://www.google.co...cV003Sk3J_mIP2w[/url] Is that blue around 50 seconds in? [/quote] No, I was living in Southern Spain at the time. But I do like that Sports Jacket. Milwaukee is still talking about that show like it was yesterday. There's a local guy, a photographer who comes to my bands shows who was there and took tons of great professional pictures. He met Ringo a few years ago and gave him a lot of the photos he took. Last weekend when I arrived at Laura's Donges Bay, I was greeted by Bill and his wife and he handed me a white envelope. He said, "this is for you". It was a print of a one if a kind performance photo he took of Elvis in Las Vegas. Blue Edited September 28, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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