Big_Stu Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1475071259' post='3142793'] You may have picked up on the electric from other artists, however that artist may have picked up the guitar because of The Beatles. In other words that historical trail in most cases can be traced back to the Beatles. Blue [/quote] I've never encountered such entrenched fanboi-dom in one of such advanced years before, I'm starting to feel uncomfortable engaging with you. Your desperate need to have your heroes credited with influencing all and sundry to play guitar is quite ridiculous and shameful. Negating credit for other people's accomplishments was something that banning payola and resolving the royalty rights of Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley and many others who influenced generations of players totally detached from The Beatles (regardless of whether you were aware of them or not) should be over and done years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1475072924' post='3142816'] Strange as an American youth I was aware of The Beatles before any of the other Stars you referenced.[/quote] Another strawman, where you were living is irrelevant. The fact is that many of those names listed, that are part of your heritage, pre-dated and influenced the Beatles, therefore it's obvious that those names also influenced others at the same time. Those people would then have influenced others quite detached from the Beatles. Your insistence that The Beatles are the "Big Bang" of the music world is plain wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1475071259' post='3142793'] You may have picked up on the electric from other artists, however that artist may have picked up the guitar because of The Beatles. In other words that historical trail in most cases can be traced back to the Beatles. Blue [/quote] This is the part of the puzzle that I feel is missing... [url="https://www.amazon.com/British-Rock-Guitar-Mo-Foster/dp/0857160001/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475074300&sr=1-1&keywords=mo+foster"]British Rock Guitar ...[/url] Highly recommended, it gives invaluable insight (from one, and not the least, who 'was there'...) into the history of the British music scene, from post-war (mostly...) up to recent times. The chain of influences is clearly visible, and the immense stock of anecdotes and insights of what was happening is a delight to read (and re-read...). There is, of course, mention of The Beatles in there, at their just measure, and more, far more. A treasure of a book. Worth a look, maybe, for those seriously interested in the history of music, straight from the source..? Edited September 28, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Anyone who has ever stood in front of a microphone and sung is influenced, whether they know it or not, by Bing Crosby. If you were there, you're almost certainly dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1475074654' post='3142839'] This is the part of the puzzle that I feel is missing... [url="https://www.amazon.com/British-Rock-Guitar-Mo-Foster/dp/0857160001/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475074300&sr=1-1&keywords=mo+foster"]British Rock Guitar ...[/url] [/quote] Interesting. That's the third version of Mo's book, first published as '17 Watts?' then 'Play Like Elvis'. I assume he's expanded it, adding some new stuff to move the story into the 1970's. Either way it's a corker. So good that on one occasion I bought three copies and gave them to the guys with whom I was in a band. Absolutely recommended. [color=#faebd7].[/color] Edited September 28, 2016 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1475074067' post='3142828'] I've never encountered such entrenched fanboi-dom in one of such advanced years before, I'm starting to feel uncomfortable engaging with you. Your desperate need to have your heroes credited with influencing all and sundry to play guitar is quite ridiculous and shameful. Negating credit for other people's accomplishments was something that banning payola and resolving the royalty rights of Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley and many others who influenced generations of players totally detached from The Beatles (regardless of whether you were aware of them or not) should be over and done years ago. [/quote] Engage me, I don't take myself all that serious. We're only talking about my opinions and I've been wrong in the past on some issues. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1475076216' post='3142857'] Interesting. That's the third version of Mo's book, first published as '17 Watts?'... [/quote] Exactly, it's '17 Watts..?' plus some more recent stuff, and a re-arranging of the content into a more 'fluid' read. A 'must-have' for every bookshelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 SkankDelver I'm catching a lot of heat here. It's just my opinion. Where am I going wrong? Are folks taking me to seriously? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1475076951' post='3142870'] SkankDelver I'm catching a lot of heat here. It's just my opinion. Where am I going wrong? Are folks taking me to seriously? Blue [/quote]the Beatles were also influenced by other artist and those artists were influenced by someone else, it seems like you are giving the impression, that the Beatles started it all, IMO that is, the Beatles were a bigger bang in the USA and they certainly opened the door for the 'British Invasion' and changed everything, especially in the States, but musically they were just a progression of what had been before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1475076951' post='3142870'] SkankDelver I'm catching a lot of heat here. It's just my opinion. Where am I going wrong? Are folks taking me to seriously? Blue [/quote] To be honest, I don't know and must confess to a certain puzzlement myself in respect of the vigorous tone of certain posts. One cannot manage other peoples beliefs but one can certainly manage one's response to them. That said, while you are perfectly entitled to hold any belief you like it is possible that frequent repetition of that belief may be counter-productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1475078315' post='3142887']That said, while you are perfectly entitled to hold any belief you like it is possible that frequent repetition of that belief may be counter-productive.[/quote] This - I've always said that I've always read every single post as "IMHO" but to make sweeping statements and to dress them up as fact is - as you say - counter-productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1475078237' post='3142885'] musically they were just a progression of what had been before [/quote] More of a leap than a progression, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1475079596' post='3142900'] This - I've always said that I've always read every single post as "IMHO" but to make sweeping statements and to dress them up as fact is - as you say - counter-productive. [/quote] Indeed. But speaking as a friend I'd suggest it's best in the long run to ignore certain posters with whom one has a serious difference of opinion over a relatively unimportant matter. If unchecked it stops being about the issue and turns into a feud. I've learnt this the hard way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1475079758' post='3142901'] More of a leap than a progression, IMO. [/quote]I know what you mean in the later years, say from Rubber Soul onwards, but in the early years it wasn't that revolutionary, very good well written pop records, but not a seismic leap that the period around Sgt Peppers was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1475083390' post='3142941'] I know what you mean in the later years, say from Rubber Soul onwards, but in the early years it wasn't that revolutionary, very good well written pop records, but not a seismic leap that the period around Sgt Peppers was [/quote] Nah, IMO it was a leap from the start for all the reasons discussed previously. From up North, writing their own tunes, harmonies, look, groove (listen to Cathy's Clown, then Love Me Do. The latter has [i]swagger.[/i]) It's all well before my time, but I know so many musicians 'of an age' who are doing it 'cos of them. This chart sums up the sea change pretty well, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1475076951' post='3142870'] SkankDelver I'm catching a lot of heat here. It's just my opinion. Where am I going wrong? Are folks taking me to seriously? Blue [/quote] I was thinking the same myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1475081900' post='3142926'] Indeed. But speaking as a friend I'd suggest it's best in the long run to ignore certain posters with whom one has a serious difference of opinion over a relatively unimportant matter. If unchecked it stops being about the issue and turns into a feud. I've learnt this the hard way [/quote] No chance of a feud Skank, like many others he can't help talking up his favourite band and it comes out as cr@p. Blue wouldn't be the first to do that here either - heck, incredible as it may seem I've been very close to doing so myself over the years When I was about that impressionable age I obsessed over Slade, they really were a case of "you don't [i]get it[/i]" for many Americans though it's documented fact that Lennon once stuck his head in the door when Slade were in Abbey Road and said "I like your singer, he sounds like me". But I grew out of that obsession long ago, though not before I'd had a Telecaster customised to be identical to Nod's, an SG Junior customised by John Birch to be identical to Nod's, bought Nod's own personal Hiwatt head & cab and had a custom bass built like Jimmy Lea's - but even I was realistic enough to know that they weren't the centre of the universe - even when I was eight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1475084139' post='3142953'] Nah, IMO it was a leap from the start for all the reasons discussed previously. From up North, writing their own tunes, harmonies, look, groove (listen to Cathy's Clown, then Love Me Do. The latter has [i]swagger.[/i]) It's all well before my time, but I know so many musicians 'of an age' who are doing it 'cos of them. This chart sums up the sea change pretty well, IMO. [/quote]I'm not sure whether you're taking the piss or not, that's an American chart, and the description you give could equally describe Buddy Holly, except he came form Texas rather than up north, if you are being sarcastic I do apologise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1475086829' post='3142983'] I'm not sure whether you're taking the piss or not, that's an American chart, and the description you give could equally describe Buddy Holly, except he came form Texas rather than up north, if you are being sarcastic I do apologise [/quote] Absolutely not taking the pee... what on earth gave you that idea? I posted a US chart to illustrate the size of the leap from a US perspective - check out Terry Stafford singing suspicion. [url="http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/19630905/7501/"]The UK chart in August '63 tells a similar story[/url]. A lot of those bands probably lost a career within weeks. Buddy Holly was fab, and deserves his place in music history, but... he wasn't a gang of scallywags. And could you imagine him tearing his throat up on I Saw Her Standing There...? 'Cos I can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1475087844' post='3143005'] Terry Stafford [/quote] Everybody whose performing career tanked is influenced in some way by Terry Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1475088457' post='3143012'] Everybody whose performing career tanked is influenced in some way by Terry Stafford. [/quote] Cool Terry Stafford fact: he wrote 'Kill the Poor', covered later by The Dead Kennedys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1475078315' post='3142887'] To be honest, I don't know and must confess to a certain puzzlement myself in respect of the vigorous tone of certain posts. One cannot manage other peoples beliefs but one can certainly manage one's response to them. That said, while you are perfectly entitled to hold any belief you like it is possible that frequent repetition of that belief may be counter-productive. [/quote] Cool, I've actually learned a lot about pre Beatles rock and roll in the UK. I didn't realize my position and repetitiveness was so irritating to so many members. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1475079596' post='3142900'] This - I've always said that I've always read every single post as "IMHO" but to make sweeping statements and to dress them up as fact is - as you say - counter-productive. [/quote] Very few facts, a lot of it is merely my opinion. And I have changed my opinion on some of these historicals regarding The Beatles. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1475085430' post='3142967'] No chance of a feud Skank, like many others he can't help talking up his favourite band and it comes out as cr@p. Blue wouldn't be the first to do that here either - heck, incredible as it may seem I've been very close to doing so myself over the years When I was about that impressionable age I obsessed over Slade, they really were a case of "you don't [i]get it[/i]" for many Americans though it's documented fact that Lennon once stuck his head in the door when Slade were in Abbey Road and said "I like your singer, he sounds like me". But I grew out of that obsession long ago, though not before I'd had a Telecaster customised to be identical to Nod's, an SG Junior customised by John Birch to be identical to Nod's, bought Nod's own personal Hiwatt head & cab and had a custom bass built like Jimmy Lea's - but even I was realistic enough to know that they weren't the centre of the universe - even when I was eight. [/quote] I dropped a ton of $$ on made in Germany HofnerLimited Edition of the Club Bass with pre 1964 cavern club PU spacing. I also have and wear athe same tab cited military style blazers The Beatles wore for the 1965 Shea Stadium show. Blue Edited September 28, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1475078237' post='3142885'] the Beatles were also influenced by other artist and those artists were influenced by someone else, it seems like you are giving the impression, that the Beatles started it all, IMO that is, the Beatles were a bigger bang in the USA and they certainly opened the door for the 'British Invasion' and changed everything, especially in the States, but musically they were just a progression of what had been before [/quote] Agreed, but a significant progression. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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