Fender American Series being discontinued.

[fretmeister]

According to the STRATosphere guys Fender are about to announce the end of the American Series - possibly leaving US production only to the Deluxe / Elite models and the Custom Shop stuff.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. US Precisions haven't been worth the premium over the Mexican Standards for a long time, and the "posh" Mexican models like the Classic 50s / Roadworn / Lacquer Finish ones are amazing (as they should be for over £1000).

If they just put the graphite rods in the Mex necks it would be the same instrument anyway.

[stingrayPete1977]

I still like US models from all the big players, call me a snob but still feel short changed paying USA money for basses built elsewhere.

[dannybuoy]

I heard the American Standards are to be replaced with the American Professional series, featuring bone nuts and some new colours, not sure if there are any other differences.

This was just an off-the-cuff remark by someone on a Talkbass thread about bone nuts, who reckons he has some insider knowledge!

Expect to see some bargains when they clear the old line out though!

[Lozz196]

This is a bit odd - to me the US are still THE instrument. I`ve had many different Fender Precisions but imo the post 2012s are easily the best. Agree the MIMs have really been upped in quality (also since 2012) and don`t think that the price gap between the two should be as much, but I do find the US to be better. I think Fender should drop the American Special range and then reduce the US prices to somewhere around the American Specials - I reckon they`d get more that way than discontinuing the US Standards.

[fretmeister]

It must be a question of overheads.

It's very easy to say "Fender should drop the prices to the level of the American Specials" but with the much publicised financial difficulties I doubt they can afford to do it. None of us know the profit margin of a US built Precision. It doesn't just come down to the wood cost and the employee time - it's the rest. Transport, support staff, sales staff, building puchase, insurance policies (US Prices!) and probably one of the largest electricity bills on the planet outside of Apple.

Bulk item manufacturing margins can be as low as 10%. If it's anywhere near that then the simply cannot reduce the prices without either making a loss or reducing the cost and thus quality of the components.


I'm going to guess - the little differences between Mex and US models is going to disappear. So the Mex will get the graphite rods and the lightweight tuning heads etc. Effectively the American Standard will be built in Mexico.

[JamesBass]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1474305298' post='3136986']
It must be a question of overheads.

It's very easy to say "Fender should drop the prices to the level of the American Specials" but with the much publicised financial difficulties I doubt they can afford to do it. None of us know the profit margin of a US built Precision. It doesn't just come down to the wood cost and the employee time - it's the rest. Transport, support staff, sales staff, building puchase, insurance policies (US Prices!) and probably one of the largest electricity bills on the planet outside of Apple.

Bulk item manufacturing margins can be as low as 10%. If it's anywhere near that then the simply cannot reduce the prices without either making a loss or reducing the cost and thus quality of the components.


I'm going to guess - the little differences between Mex and US models is going to disappear. So the Mex will get the graphite rods and the lightweight tuning heads etc. Effectively the American Standard will be built in Mexico.
[/quote]
When I bought a brand new American Elite Jazz earlier this year, GAK did say that had I gone for any other bass there would have been much more wiggle room to drop prices and give extra discounts, sadly Fender seem to run their instrument prices at literally the lowest they can afford to already. I have a suspicion that the custom shop will expand and become a much better entity, better choice, quality, etc. just due to the rise of the super jazz's on the market and the ability to get a quality J or P from builders like Xotic, Maruszczyk, Lull, Lakin, Lakland, Sadowsky, Sandberg etc. So Fender need to compete and alter their strategy.

As a brand and price point Squire is right. The MIM basses vary from a very affordable to the expensive for a mexican made instrument, but the quality of them doesn't vary as much as the price, there are very few difference from a US and Mex ATM, chances are Fender can't reduce the price of the US as much as they probably want to, so raise the quality of the Mex and the price and perhaps that'll solve some of their issues, leaving the Elites and the CS to be that 'Prestigious USA made brand"

Then again if they kill the US standard in favour of a rebrand - someone said they'd do a series called 'Professional' then that doesn't make sense unless they ditch something else off, also the Elites were marketed as a 'Professionals tool'

[M@23]

Wow. Not sure if that's a smart move or not, on first impressions.

The US Standard is THE bass, isn't it? It is the industry standard for working musicians. Undoubtedly the product line is a mess, but it seems that the Standard is the one you build the rest of the range around.

Will the Elites be the new Standards then?

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[JTUK]

I think the CS is a distinctly average build. The only thing that perpetuates the whole deal, IMO, is the F on the headstock.
People say the 2012 builds upped their game across the board..?? but I just don't think Fender are that interested or committed to that goal, they just want to do enough to continue selling.

The really discerning buyer knows there is much better value elsewhere... For example, a Sei J5 would wipe the floor in every respect of a CS, a good few times over but their new prices are comparable.
One is a hand made bespoke instrument and the other is a bitsa from other ranges in the brand... namely the American Deluxe. IMHO, of course.
The Am Deluxe is discontinued and is replaced by what... a new name and promo campaign..??

[Schnozzalee]

Buy yourself a G&L.

[stingrayPete1977]

I went for a standard US Jazz a couple of years ago even though the wife had given me the go ahead to spend more, maybe even a grand more!, but part of me just wanted a proper US Jazz, not a Deluxe, not a Mex, not a Squier, not a CS, just a proper Jazz and to me those are made in the US of A.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1474310867' post='3137046']
I think the CS is a distinctly average build. The only thing that perpetuates the whole deal, IMO, is the F on the headstock.
People say the 2012 builds upped their game across the board..?? but I just don't think Fender are that interested or committed to that goal, they just want to do enough to continue selling.

The really discerning buyer knows there is much better value elsewhere... For example, a Sei J5 would wipe the floor in every respect of a CS, a good few times over but their new prices are comparable.
One is a hand made bespoke instrument and the other is a bitsa from other ranges in the brand... namely the American Deluxe. IMHO, of course.
The Am Deluxe is discontinued and is replaced by what... a new name and promo campaign..??
[/quote]

A lot of buyers have one eye on resale (not me actually) and anything other than one with the big F on it just doesn't hold it's value the same, we have pages of basses in the for sale section that cost £2500-3500 to have built for sale often for months for £1000-1500.

Also the buyers are often 50+ guys that are treating themselves to a bass/guitar they lusted after when younger, the people researching xotic, sei, Roscoe, GB etc etc are in the minority compared to buyers of instruments with an F on purchased and never gigged.

[visog]

Get 'em quick before Trump builds his wall...

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1474311923' post='3137067']
Get 'em quick before Trump builds his wall...
[/quote]

Where the like button when you need it?


Damn Mooslims..

[FinnDave]

I've got a US standard Precision and a US standard Jazz, both are distinctly better than MiM versions, though the gap has been narrowing in recent years. I'd be very sorry to see the US standard range disappear.

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

Could this just be another name change? Wasn't it the "American Standard" for a while, then "American Series", then back to "American Standard"?

[3below]

[quote name='Schnozzalee' timestamp='1474311010' post='3137048']
Buy yourself a G&L.
[/quote]

'Buy yourself a 'vintage' G&L'., some real value for money about. Failing that just buy used German Warwicks, quality all day long at very sensible prices. I have owned a plethora of US guitars and basses, 5 at present, I have a liking for them but now feel that far eastern and Chinese basses offer 85 - 95% of the quality at bargain basement prices, especially s/h. Quite what Fender can do to compete remains to be seen. I have seen the same with my wife's business, luxury specialist products turned into high quality, low cost 'white' consumer goods over time. Country of origin no longer matters. I no longer buy German or Swedish cars either, better value for money elsewhere.

[LayDownThaFunk]

What got me was US Fenders with that dumb centre hole in the body of the bass - really?!

[MacDaddy]

A Fender made with USA parts assembled by a Mexican in Mexico, or a Fender with USA parts assembled by a Mexican in the USA...

[Pinball]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1474316089' post='3137128']
'Buy yourself a 'vintage' G&L'., some real value for money about. Failing that just buy used German Warwicks, quality all day long at very sensible prices. I have owned a plethora of US guitars and basses, 5 at present, I have a liking for them but now feel that far eastern and Chinese basses offer 85 - 95% of the quality at bargain basement prices, especially s/h. Quite what Fender can do to compete remains to be seen. I have seen the same with my wife's business, luxury specialist products turned into high quality, low cost 'white' consumer goods over time. Country of origin no longer matters. I no longer buy German or Swedish cars either, better value for money elsewhere.
[/quote]

I would go further, I have a mixture of Chinese, Korean, Japanese and USA instruments and the quality of all is excellent. G&L's and stingrays (Ray35's) are a good example.

[Sparky Mark]

I'm not sure that I entirely agree that the 2012 and later are any better than 2008 through 2012 American Standards.

I have a few examples of these vintages and the only significant difference is the custom shop pups fitted since 2012. The standard pups that were fitted from 2008 to 2012 are slightly more modern sounding (clearer and hotter output) whilst the custom shops are warmer old school. Both sound great and I wouldn't have a problem with using either.

The hardware, other than the latest machine heads have remained the same since 2008 to date. The fit and finish has been excellent since 2008 and the USA high mass bridge with through body stringing option is as good as any. The cheaper cast and BBOT bridges fitted to non USA Fenders just don't have the same build quality (probably sound just as good though).

For me the most desirable Fenders are the USA standard series, not the higher specification deluxe/elite models that they have released through the years and I am sad that Fender might be ceasing production of this iconic series.

[3below]

[quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1474319021' post='3137163']
I would go further, I have a mixture of Chinese, Korean, Japanese and USA instruments and the quality of all is excellent. G&L's and stingrays (Ray35's) are a good example.
[/quote]

The Chinese Rockbass 5 stringer I owned for a while had an outstanding build and finish quality, totally on a par with my USA G&L bass and Telecaster guitar (and that is a well made one). When these well built Chinese, Korean, Indonesian etc basses are made with quality timber (ash, maple, mahogany etc as many are) what 'magic' does the name and 'Made in USA' ticket carry anymore?

[luckman67]

I personally doubt Fender will drop the American made Standard basses, they could offer the Elite as a 1 or 2 pickup version & rename them the American Elite Series. As said in an above thread people (me included) want that big F word, and the better wording underneath Made In U.S.A. It would be like Ferrari making their cars in France there is heritage and history to take into consideration.

[skej21]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1474317255' post='3137144']
A Fender made with USA parts assembled by a Mexican in Mexico, or a Fender with USA parts assembled by a Mexican in the USA...
[/quote]

The only problem with that is that the Mexican range is Mexican parts (not USA parts). Regardless of who/where builds them, the Mexican parts are considerably different to the US parts in terms of what is classed as an acceptable quality.

The Mexican factory has ZERO wood waste. It's entire ethic is built on producing as many basses as possible from the resources they have. If that means cobbling a body together from 80 tiny chunks of scrap wood cutoffs glued together, that's what they do. USA is maximum 3 bits per body, usually 2 piece in the American Deluxe/American Vintage range. It will never be more than 3.

Same principles apply to the quality of components in the pickups, hardware, wiring etc. All as cheap as they can source for the Mexican range (implying Mex Std versus Am Std).

Don't get me wrong, the fact that the Mexican models play and are constructed to a higher standard than they ever were before and feel similar in playability to the US range and the fact that Fender have a work force that is trained together and works across both factories is testament to the fact they have tried to close the construction quality gap between the two main ranges.

This doesn't, however, take away from the fact that it is not as clear cut as this commonly cited (and slightly inaccurate) belief would imply!

Edited September 19, 2016 by skej21

[Musicman20]

The best bet would be a new American series overhaul with more 'vintage' appointments, eg 50s/60s colours.