How to 'acoustically treat' a room on a budget?

[TheButler]

We've (the band) recently got ourselves a place to rehearse. It was an old gamekeeper's house, even has the old range in it (and a gun rack). It's a bit of an odd building, very old, massive thick stone walls, a stone floor and in the middle of nowhere (noise isn't a problem). We're building a raised floor, mainly for damp, but also should be better for sound?

Anyway, we're not wanting to spend a lot of money on acoustic treatment for the room - we won't be recording in it. However, it is important that we can still achieve a [i]decent[/i] sound for playing around with the PA and settings of our gear.

The dimensions of the main room are 5.2m x 4.85 x 2.5m. The room has one door, a couple of shallow cupboards (both covered by big old doors) and a small bay sash (old, rippled single glazing) window that has some nice old shutters. The electrics have all just been done recently, tested by someone that actually knows what they're doing. We've done some damp-proofing etc and are now looking at options for making the room sound better.

I've found some info online, but i'm quickly getting lost in it - especially given that most of it is geared towards a 'no compromise' approach. Should we just chuck some foam panels on the wall and see what happens? We're going to build a kind of polystyrene wedge to block the window. Apart from that we're not sure what else we should do?

Many thanks for your time in reading and/or advising.

Jamie

[JoeEvans]

Polystyrene does very little to stop sound - too light - and doesn't have a massive effect on room acoustics. I would build wooden shutters instead.
One good and cheap thing to do for room acoustics is just to buy loads of thick secondhand velvet curtains - hang them over the windows and in a big bunched-up gather in the corners. Need to watch out if the room is prone to damp, though.

If you're going with acoustic panels, just go for it, a few at a time until it sounds good. A while back we had some very expensive acoustic testing done on my workplace; the reports came back with a set of recommendations for each room, all of which basically boiled down to 'stick this number of acoustic panels on the walls and ceilings'. On enquiring about panel locations, it emerged that it doesn't matter all that much where they go.

[Dad3353]

The description fits almost exactly with our cottage, one part of which is our 'Music room' where we practise (2 guitars, bass, drums, singer, pop/rock covers, all-valve half-stacks, 2 x 300 PA monitors...).
Stone walls, small windows, concrete floor, 'recording' loft above the beams and floorboard ceiling. I find that the equipment in there (cabs and other 'stuff', including an armchair...) allow the room to be 'live' without any inconvenient resonances. We have recorded stuff in there, and it's not bad at all. I'd recommend doing nothing at all for a month or two, and see how it feels after that.
More important, maybe would be heating (in winter...) and adequate ventilation, to avoid condensation. Is the room used regularly, or left vacant for a week at a time..? That will determine the impact on any gear left there. Many studios have a 'stone' room to try to recreate just the ambience you're likely to get, and if you're not recording, you won't want a really 'dead' room, anyway. Do nothing expensive, at least, and forget about egg cartons. Did that decades ago to no effect whatever save placebo.
Subject to correction, completion and/or contradiction from others; hope this helps.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Dad3353

[skidder652003]

what about the old carpet on the walls trick? Mates used to do it all the time in the 70s and 80s, no idea if it works though?

[Maude]

Are the stone walls exposed?
If yes then the uneven surface will serve to break up soundwaves.Modern flat, parallel walls are more of problem.
I've always found suspended floors more of a problem than solid ones as well, they always seem very boomy.
I'd go with Dad's advice and leave as is for a while and see how you get on, might not need to do anything.

[ivansc]

Cheapest and easiest way is to put Superchunk traps in all four corners.
I made mine from packs of rockwool RW3 insulation. Bought a Value electric carving knife from Tesco for about a fiver and cut each piece of RW3 into triangles all the same size, about 2 ft across the long edge. Bought two pairs of cheap sheets and got my wife to sew up four triangular bags the right size. Stuffed them witrh RW3 triangles. Then using plywood triangular formers at the top I screwed cup hooks into the ceiling plasterboard and D-connectors to the plyewood.
Bags hung with no real damage to the walls or ceiling and the difference is surprising. Cost me a total of about £50 including the sheets and the carving knife!

Edited September 22, 2016 by ivansc

[TheButler]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1474568786' post='3138914']
Is the room used regularly, or left vacant for a week at a time..? That will determine the impact on any gear left there.
[/quote]

It will be. A few times a week for a few hours at a time. We have had dehumidifiers going for a month now. There is an open fire, but not sure on the state of the chimney. We are also needing to think of a decent heating/damp prevention solutions.

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1474570946' post='3138942']
what about the old carpet on the walls trick? Mates used to do it all the time in the 70s and 80s, no idea if it works though?
[/quote]

We have hundreds of carpet tiles that we had planned on putting some way up the way. But they're pretty thin.

[quote name='Maude' timestamp='1474579789' post='3139057']
Are the stone walls exposed?
If yes then the uneven surface will serve to break up soundwaves.Modern flat, parallel walls are more of problem.
I've always found suspended floors more of a problem than solid ones as well, they always seem very boomy.
I'd go with Dad's advice and leave as is for a while and see how you get on, might not need to do anything.
[/quote]

They aren't exposed. But the plaster feels more like concrete or something. Must be some ancient plastering solution from the 19th century. They're not flat as such, smooth but not level.

I did think of the suspended floor being an issue. I think we are more anxious about damp prevention/ventilation than boominess. It's a good point though, and I'll run it by them again.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1474580430' post='3139064']
Cheapest and easiest way is to put Superchunk traps in all four corners.
I made mine from packs of rockwool RW3 insulation. Bought a Value electric carving knife from Tesco for about a fiver and cut each piece of RW3 into triangles all the same size, about 2 ft across the long edge. Bought two pairs of cheap sheets and got my wife to sew up four triangular bags the right size. Stuffed them witrh RW3 triangles. Then using plywood triangular formers at the top I screwed cup hooks into the ceiling plasterboard and D-connectors to the plyewood.
Bags hung with no real damage to the walls or ceiling and the difference is surprising. Cost me a total of about £50 including the sheets and the carving knife!
[/quote]

That sounds great. I have seen tonnes of good stuff on the web about these. I can't sew, nor can anyone I know. However, I won't let that stop me from pursuing these avenues.

[ivansc]

[quote name='TheButler' timestamp='1474587902' post='3139114']
That sounds great. I have seen tonnes of good stuff on the web about these. I can't sew, nor can anyone I know. However, I won't let that stop me from pursuing these avenues.
[/quote]

That is why they invented staplers and girlfriends... (MCP alert!!!)

As far as damp is concerned, I have been chasing damp out of a house in France for about 10 years ioff and on. Built in 1601 on the down side of a hill which is 99% slate!

chances are that at one time or another someone has replaced the original chalk-based pointing and plaster with cement-based equivalent, which doesnt let the walls breathe, which means the damp gets trapped in the walls, also sucked up from the ground.
Sadly your suspended floor is unlikely to stop the damp.
FWIW our french place is now pretty much damp free even in the worst of Breton winter storms! You might also want to check the state of the roof - we discovered a LOT of our damp problems on the ground floor were caused by a leak in the roof! Those old stone walls were generally TWO stone walls with an infill of either earth or mixeD rubble, so once any water gets inside the top of the wall it just sinks through the layers of infill to the bottom.

Edited September 23, 2016 by ivansc