Music shops -any wonder they're going under?

[zbd1960]

'Generic' big music shops are a problem. Music is one of those areas that needs some expertise as it's not like buying white goods. Whether it's a beginner's violin package or a guitar and amp, there's a lot about what suits the individual, the budget, set-up, the purpose/intention etc. Sadly, most stores aren't prepared to pay to get decent staff, so go with students looking for part-time jobs who are 'interested' in music. Since training, whether in sales methods, customer care, or product knowledge, costs money, that also is not done.

The result is by and large poor service, unless you are lucky enough to get someone more clued up.

The independents are usually better as the owner tends to be more hands-on and knows that reputaton and service are important.

The trouble is the big stores will loss-lead on the mass market stuff and this makes it hard for the independents to survive.

Then there's the internet...

[bassjim]

I went into GAK in Brighton roughly about 5-6 years ago. The guy in the Bass Dept was hell bent on telling me how little I knew about the subject and what a pro he was. He then went on to wind me up over a period of about 20 minutes. I wanted to part with £1500.00 quid and had called prior to let him know I was coming over and what I wanted to check out. Despite the pre warning I was going to part with a reasonable amount of cash he toggled between patronising me and being condesending and ignoring me mid sentance to deal with someone wanting to buy a plectrum.
Well I just got to the point where I just felt like lashing out so I just left. He then runs up the road after me saying "sorry man, let me sort it out."
I was still angry so told him to leave me alone and stormed off back to the car park.
A band mate told me to call the shop and complain to the manager. So I did. The manager by way of apology, puts the bass I was trying to try out, in his car, drives 20 miles to my house and lets me have it for a week to try out, discounts £250.00 off it and says if I still dont want it he will come and pick it up.
I bought the bass. Its my main bass. Its a very good one.I love this bass but I nearly didn't buy it because of the sales guy.
The manager unfortunately cant be cloned. Needless to say this guy doesnt (to my knowledge) work there any more.
Forward wind 5-6 years later. I went back there recently on another spending spree and cant say I was overwhelmed with enthusiasm. The guy was ok this time and nothing like the last time but still....... personally I'm done with this music shop for quality basses.

[chris_b]

I don't know why you guys let the people who work in music shops wind you up so much.

Go in, say "no thanks, I'm just looking" and get on with it. Know what you need to know before you walk in. Don't ask them stuff and don't converse. If you find anything you'd like to try ask and try it. Either say I'm having it or no thanks and go around the loop again or leave.

Life's too short to get angry with anyone let alone anyone working in a music shop.

[Hobbayne]

There's a lot of love on here for The Gallery in London. I went there once and found them rude and surly. I never went back.
Wunjo's however, let me play loads of P basses with no issues. Even encouraging me to try them through different amps.
I bought 3 basses from there and still go back.

[Funky Dunky]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1475574933' post='3146962']
I don't know why you guys let the people who work in music shops wind you up so much.

Go in, say "no thanks, I'm just looking" and get on with it. Know what you need to know before you walk in. Don't ask them stuff and don't converse. If you find anything you'd like to try ask and try it. Either say I'm having it or no thanks and go around the loop again or leave.

Life's too short to get angry with anyone let alone anyone working in a music shop.
[/quote]

That's good advice, but when it comes time to buy and the salesman starts mucking you about, or worse, making a fool of you/patronising you/making you feel like you're an inconvenience by being in their shop with a fistful of cash, why should you accept that? These shops are entirely dependent on our custom, yet for some reason, it appears to be fairly common practice for them to treat customers extremely shabbily. The result is, we take our business elsewhere, and (rightly) warn off other consumers from 'rewarding' these people with a transaction. Life is also too short to tolerate rudeness, suffer fools gladly, or pay someone who has treated you poorly.

[mentalextra]

Perhaps music shops should take a lesson from the masters of retailing, Supermarkets. Just walk in, spend as long as you like looking and picking stuff up. Pay at the check-out when ready? That applies to food, clothes, TV's etc etc.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1475576652' post='3146990']
Perhaps music shops should take a lesson from the masters of retailing, Supermarkets. Just walk in, spend as long as you like looking and picking stuff up. Pay at the check-out when ready? That applies to food, clothes, TV's etc etc.
[/quote]
That's how musical exchanges in Birmingham was in 1990, and guess what, all those annoying kids grew up, got jobs and spent loads of cash in there just a few years later,my originals band must have spent nearly 10k in there over a few years.

[BrunoBass]

I popped into PMT Birmingham yesterday for a bit of a nose around and ended up leaving with a new acoustic guitar. I was greeted with a friendly hello, and the guy in the acoustic area let me try whatever I wanted for as long as a wanted without any hassle or pressure, and although he was doing other stuff he was available for any questions I wanted to ask. Granted, Monday afternoons are probably quiet times but I was really pleased with the whole experience, and have been whenever I've been to a PMT branch, be it Birmingham, Northampton or Oxford. My receipt tells me that the chap who looked after me was called Sean Cunningham. Good stuff.

[Freddy Le Cragg]

This is why i buy all my guitars from charity shops

[Cato]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1475582611' post='3147055']

That's how musical exchanges in Birmingham was in 1990, and guess what, all those annoying kids grew up, got jobs and spent loads of cash in there just a few years later,my originals band must have spent nearly 10k in there over a few years.
[/quote]

I reckon that shop gave all the regulars unfeasibly high expectations.

It might be the rose tinted memories of youth, but every guitar shop I've ever been in since has been slightly disappointing by comparison.

They just had so much variety and they'd let spotty 15 year old me and my mates try anything.

Needless to say when I had the money that's where all my gear came from.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Cato

[FinnDave]

I've had good service from PMT Oxford and have been there many times. I have bought quite a few basses there, though!

[thebrig]

[quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1475584821' post='3147085']
I popped into PMT Birmingham yesterday for a bit of a nose around and ended up leaving with a new acoustic guitar. I was greeted with a friendly hello, and the guy in the acoustic area let me try whatever I wanted for as long as a wanted without any hassle or pressure, and although he was doing other stuff he was available for any questions I wanted to ask. Granted, Monday afternoons are probably quiet times but I was really pleased with the whole experience, and have been whenever I've been to a PMT branch, be it Birmingham, Northampton or Oxford. My receipt tells me that the chap who looked after me was called Sean Cunningham. Good stuff.
[/quote]I quite often make a trip to PMT a half-day out, and even though I only really play bass and a little bit of guitar, I also enjoy looking around all the other departments as well, I can quite easily spend three or four hours in there.

[BigRedX]

I don't really have a problem with music shops. My tastes are too esoteric and I'm not in the slightest bit interested in walls of Fenders and Gibsons, so (apart from specialist shops like The Gallery or Bass Direct) I'm hardly part of their target demographic.

It's not really music shops fault. They need to stock stuff that they can sell to the average punter and here on Basschat I would imagine that very few of us regular posters fit that description. In a way the internet has spoiled us all. 25 years ago I was perfectly happy with Rotosound or Elites strings. Now I'm looking for TI Flats, LaBella Steels, Pedulla Nickels and Warwick Black Label, and it's hardly fair to expect the average music shop to be stocking stuff that isn't popular. And eBay (and this site) has all but killed the market for interesting non-mainstream second-hand instruments in the stores.

Also here on Basschat we are hardly representative, Most of the bass players in the bands that I gig with have never even heard of this place, and they are exactly the sort of people that most music store cater for. They want a bass that looks like the one their hero plays, some round-wound strings and a strap to put on it, and some form of reliable amplification, and that's exactly what they can pick up at most music shops.

I haven't ever come across the sorts of problem staff that some people here describe, mainly because in the days when I was still buying stuff from music shops I took the time to build up good relationships with the staff who dealt with whatever instruments I was interested in at the time, be it guitar, bass synthesisers or recording gear. That meant that I could spend hours trying stuff out in times when I had no money because those people knew that when I did have some I would be back to spend it with them.

Edited October 4, 2016 by BigRedX

[Sammers]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1475500109' post='3146395']
I just checked their site in case I'd misremembered. It's because it's a leftie I think.
[/quote]

Wouldn't surprise me. Lefties are made in much smaller runs so parts are more expensive though not £700 more expensive! Sigh.

..... Still want 1 though!

[Dan Dare]

Another vote for Wunjos. I have only bought odds and sods there, but they're always friendly (although not overly so in that sales rep' way), let you play with stuff to your heart's content and answer questions intelligently.

[tauzero]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1475582611' post='3147055'] That's how musical exchanges in Birmingham was in 1990, and guess what, all those annoying kids grew up, got jobs and spent loads of cash in there just a few years later,my originals band must have spent nearly 10k in there over a few years. [/quote]

It was like that in the 70s too. And in the old shop in Broad Street that burnt down, that I used to visit when I was a spotty schoolboy. Funnily enough, little Gary who works at PMT Birmingham used to work at Musical Exchanges back in the Broad Street days and then when they moved to Snow Hill. I remember him showing me photos of the fire damage and burnt guitars at the old shop, many years ago.

[Wayne Firefly]

I worked in a local music shop for quite some time and I'd always try and be friendly and chatty, be helpful and answer questions as honestly as I could, trying to burst that bubble that can be sometimes intimidating for some. Guitar shops can be a minefield of horror if uninitiated. We couldnt always help, but if we didnt have what the customer wanted, I'd always point them in the direction where they could get what they wanted. BUT from the other side, customers can be A-holes too !!
There was this young student guy, would come in (for months) and try out all the gear he'd read about online. He'd then plug in, turn up and play horrible versions of Hendrix and Jethro Tull riffs and the obvious GnR and Nirvana riffs for ages, only ever bought 3 picks. Then theres the metal guy who'd plug in and sweep pick for 20 mins staring at me....Acknowledge my playing you git !!!!
Then you get the gang of students on their dinner hour who'd come in and show their mates the new riffs they'd just learned that week, like a little gig. Or the woman who came in and put down a deposit on something only to come back 10 days later asking for the deposit back as her husband had bought their daughter a guitar from somewhere else. Or the guy who bought a guitar from the other shop in town then turned up to show me what he'd just bought..... Then you get the guy who turned up with a '70s Epiphone Thunderbird bass' they didnt do em in the 70s says I..... Yes they bloody did, you wait and see etc etc. Then the other guy who waxes lyrical about the sonic blue 63 Strat in the original case with original bill of sale, you know, the BS types etc etc. Then the lad who came in and asked the difference between an air guitar and an electric guitar. Then the girl who asked of we sold 'fishing glass'. Then the guy who asked if I would hug him....Then the people who bring in unruly kids that run around and smack everything, then the ones who bring two dogs in, then you'd get someone who came in, was friendly and pretty normal, we'd have a little chat about whatever, I'd learn about something that I might not have known, like the local music scene in the 60s and stories about that... they'd brought something in for a P/X/ deal, gets done, everyone is happy or the person who wants a guitar who's not sure what he or she might want so I'd help them out then back off to let them make their own decision, answering any questions they might have.
I sometimes go in music shops and see how Im treated for fun, Im polite and friendly but I like to see how staff treat you.
The one in Manchester under the arches was A1 by the way.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='Wayne Firefly' timestamp='1475750679' post='3148408']
The one in Manchester under the arches was A1 by the way.
[/quote]

I bought a few things from A1. I think that's where I bought my Selmer Treble & Bass 50 in the 70s. It's definitely where I bought a Guild B301 in about 78 or 79.

Happy daze!

[bartelby]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1475582611' post='3147055']
That's how musical exchanges in Birmingham was in 1990, and guess what, all those annoying kids grew up, got jobs and spent loads of cash in there just a few years later,my originals band must have spent nearly 10k in there over a few years.
[/quote]

I used to love popping in there, in the late 80/early 90s, when I was in Birmingham. Some of the guys working there were fantastic. The Coventry branch was almost as good.

Me and my mate spent hours in those stores. I remember going to the Cov store and my mate trying out a guitar and I wandered over and got a bass. We both started playing the same song. Guy from the counter got up and shouted at us to stop as it was all wrong. He wandered past then we heard him shout "ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR" and he started playing the drums to the same song...

Edited October 6, 2016 by bartelby

[yorks5stringer]

I shuddered when a guy walked into a shop I was browsing in, to show off his new guitar he'd bought from Thomann 'quite a bit cheaper than you sell it for'. What was the shop guy expected to say?

Edited October 6, 2016 by yorks5stringer

[rushbo]

[quote name='Wayne Firefly' timestamp='1475750679' post='3148408']
I worked in a local music shop for quite some time and I'd always try and be friendly and chatty, be helpful and answer questions as honestly as I could, trying to burst that bubble that can be sometimes intimidating for some. Guitar shops can be a minefield of horror if uninitiated. We couldnt always help, but if we didnt have what the customer wanted, I'd always point them in the direction where they could get what they wanted. BUT from the other side, customers can be A-holes too !!
There was this young student guy, would come in (for months) and try out all the gear he'd read about online. He'd then plug in, turn up and play horrible versions of Hendrix and Jethro Tull riffs and the obvious GnR and Nirvana riffs for ages, only ever bought 3 picks. Then theres the metal guy who'd plug in and sweep pick for 20 mins staring at me....Acknowledge my playing you git !!!!
Then you get the gang of students on their dinner hour who'd come in and show their mates the new riffs they'd just learned that week, like a little gig. Or the woman who came in and put down a deposit on something only to come back 10 days later asking for the deposit back as her husband had bought their daughter a guitar from somewhere else. Or the guy who bought a guitar from the other shop in town then turned up to show me what he'd just bought..... Then you get the guy who turned up with a '70s Epiphone Thunderbird bass' they didnt do em in the 70s says I..... Yes they bloody did, you wait and see etc etc. Then the other guy who waxes lyrical about the sonic blue 63 Strat in the original case with original bill of sale, you know, the BS types etc etc. Then the lad who came in and asked the difference between an air guitar and an electric guitar. Then the girl who asked of we sold 'fishing glass'. Then the guy who asked if I would hug him....Then the people who bring in unruly kids that run around and smack everything, then the ones who bring two dogs in, then you'd get someone who came in, was friendly and pretty normal, we'd have a little chat about whatever, I'd learn about something that I might not have known, like the local music scene in the 60s and stories about that... they'd brought something in for a P/X/ deal, gets done, everyone is happy or the person who wants a guitar who's not sure what he or she might want so I'd help them out then back off to let them make their own decision, answering any questions they might have.
I sometimes go in music shops and see how Im treated for fun, Im polite and friendly but I like to see how staff treat you.
The one in Manchester under the arches was A1 by the way.
[/quote]

This is spot on. I worked in that other bastion of rudery - a record shop - for 13 years. Another intimidating environment for the casual shopper. I was (with a handful of notable exceptions...) painfully polite and helpful, which resulted in loyal, happy customers...and a few examples of real human flotsam and jetsam, but that's another story... On a good day, it was brilliant - chatting about obscure 80's U.S Alt-Rock bands, playing Nick Drake, Teenage Fanclub, Posies and NY Disco tunes as well as the typical chart fodder. The other side was The Great British Public. Oh, the stories I could tell...from the cute but confused section... a little old lady with her grandsons Christmas list in her hand, asking for a record by the Ram-oneys, a bemused young bloke asking for a CD by Suzi Cointreau, a lovely old geezer asking for a needle for his Fertility record player...and on. People getting irate when we refused to swap CDs which they smeared jam over and tried to play because they'd seen it done on "Tomorrow's World", for example. My favourite moment was when a guy complained that a compilation CD we were selling at £12.99 (in our dinky little Indie shop) was available at Sainsburys for £11.99. I asked him (not unreasonably. I feel) why he didn't just go and buy if from the aforementioned supermarket. "They ain't got it in stock", he replied. My parting comment was "When we haven't got in stock, we sell it here for £10.99". That day, I lost a sale. Satisfying? You betcha.

[mcnach]

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1475790059' post='3148864']
complained that a compilation CD we were selling at £12.99 (in our dinky little Indie shop) was available at Sainsburys for £11.99. I asked him (not unreasonably. I feel) why he didn't just go and buy if from the aforementioned supermarket. "They ain't got it in stock", he replied. [b]My parting comment was "When we haven't got in stock, we sell it here for £10.99".[/b] That day, I lost a sale. Satisfying? You betcha.
[/quote]

That's brilliant!

[Kiwi]

I'm in the middle of sorting out a situation with a particular music shop on Denmark Street that I won't name in the interests of giving them an opportunity to finish sorting their mess out. However on the topic of retail generally - my second day back in London was memorable for the appalling level of customer service offered by at least three establishments I visited. After the music shop, the next worst was a phone repair shop that treated me like my phone was some kind of poisoned chalice.

I have to admit I tore a strip off the guy in the middle of the shop. All they needed to do was listen, and get back to me if they encountered anything unexpected. I had gone well out of my way to reach them and jetlag lowered my ability to tolerate teeth-sucking,could-be-tricky attitude. I told them what I thought the repair was going to be and (when I finally opened up the phone myself - I was correct). That entire day was a total and complete waste of my time and train fare.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1475790059' post='3148864']
This is spot on. I worked in that other bastion of rudery - a record shop - for 13 years. Another intimidating environment for the casual shopper. I was (with a handful of notable exceptions...) painfully polite and helpful, which resulted in loyal, happy customers...and a few examples of real human flotsam and jetsam, but that's another story... On a good day, it was brilliant - chatting about obscure 80's U.S Alt-Rock bands, playing Nick Drake, Teenage Fanclub, Posies and NY Disco tunes as well as the typical chart fodder. The other side was The Great British Public. Oh, the stories I could tell...from the cute but confused section... a little old lady with her grandsons Christmas list in her hand, asking for a record by the Ram-oneys, a bemused young bloke asking for a CD by Suzi Cointreau, a lovely old geezer asking for a needle for his Fertility record player...and on. People getting irate when we refused to swap CDs which they smeared jam over and tried to play because they'd seen it done on "Tomorrow's World", for example. My favourite moment was when a guy complained that a compilation CD we were selling at £12.99 (in our dinky little Indie shop) was available at Sainsburys for £11.99. I asked him (not unreasonably. I feel) why he didn't just go and buy if from the aforementioned supermarket. "They ain't got it in stock", he replied. My parting comment was "When we haven't got in stock, we sell it here for £10.99". That day, I lost a sale. Satisfying? You betcha.
[/quote]

Although your stories could be applied to any retail environment.

Customers, can't live with them and can't live without them?

[Wayne Firefly]

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1475790059' post='3148864']
This is spot on. I worked in that other bastion of rudery - a record shop - for 13 years. Another intimidating environment for the casual shopper. I was (with a handful of notable exceptions...) painfully polite and helpful, which resulted in loyal, happy customers...and a few examples of real human flotsam and jetsam, but that's another story... On a good day, it was brilliant - chatting about obscure 80's U.S Alt-Rock bands, playing Nick Drake, Teenage Fanclub, Posies and NY Disco tunes as well as the typical chart fodder. The other side was The Great British Public. Oh, the stories I could tell...from the cute but confused section... a little old lady with her grandsons Christmas list in her hand, asking for a record by the Ram-oneys, a bemused young bloke asking for a CD by Suzi Cointreau, a lovely old geezer asking for a needle for his Fertility record player...and on. People getting irate when we refused to swap CDs which they smeared jam over and tried to play because they'd seen it done on "Tomorrow's World", for example. My favourite moment was when a guy complained that a compilation CD we were selling at £12.99 (in our dinky little Indie shop) was available at Sainsburys for £11.99. I asked him (not unreasonably. I feel) why he didn't just go and buy if from the aforementioned supermarket. "They ain't got it in stock", he replied. My parting comment was "When we haven't got in stock, we sell it here for £10.99". That day, I lost a sale. Satisfying? You betcha.
[/quote]

Very funny, well done !!!!