That Fender magic

[Nicko]

No, not another fan question.

Everyone knows what a precision sounds like. Given that my 2 precisions are entirely different in terms of construction and finish, why do they sound so similar?

One is Alder, with Alico pickups, vintage bridge + saddles and gloss urethane finish, the other is basswood, standard Fender pickup, hi-mass bridge + brass saddles and gloss polyester. Yes, they are both the same shape and have maple necks (of different dimension). Are the P characteristics really down to the split pickup and its placement relative to the strings and bridge?

Edit: The magic appears to be their ability to throw together any old parts and still make the same basic sound.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Nicko

[Sammers]

I think you're probably right, I think it's just the simplicity of them.

My humble Fender P has so much more character with it's 1 pick up than my 5 string Lull Jazz with fancy bridge/tuners, reinforced neck and Sadowsky Pre but i'll bet the Lull had a lot more time spent on it being put together.

I've only ever owned 1 Fender but it seem's to have that extra something that my other basses don't. Indescribable really.

[discreet]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1475222884' post='3144070']
Are the P characteristics really down to the split pickup and its placement relative to the strings and bridge?
[/quote]

Yes. Yes, it is.

Edit: Well, at least relative to the nut and bridge. String-to-pickup distance is part of your own set-up.

Edited September 30, 2016 by discreet

[bassbiscuits]

There's definitely a Fender characteristic sound and feel.

I've had four USA Fenders over the last few years, only one of which I still own as I sold the others to finance another bass.

Enter a Lull PJ4. Very fine bass indeed, but sounds very different from the Fenders, despite being essentially the same construction, the same sort of pickups in same location, passive electronics etc.

On the other hand, i've borrowed my mate's mid 2000s MIJ precision to set up properly, and it sounds much like my other Fender P, far more so than the Lull.

Weird.

[thebrig]

I have a custom made 51 slab body precision with a single coil, a 54 precision with a single coil, and six other Fender precisions including a 71 & 75, they all have split pups, but are all from different manufacturers, two of the them have graphite necks, two have maple boards, and two have rosewood boards, I have a Squire VM precision with split pup and rosewood board, and I also have a [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]Maruszczyk Jake, with split pup, rosewood board, 32" scale, s[/color][/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]ome of the bodies are alder, some are ash, and [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I think the Squier[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] is basswood, and they all have different finishes, so quite a cross section of the same bass.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Soundwise?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I'm no expert and I'm not sure how good my ears are, but here are my thoughts.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Splits?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I think at home when playing on my own, you can hear subtle differences,[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] but I've gigged them all, and in the mix the splits all sound pretty much the same, they all cut through really well, even though the basses are all made very different, even the medium scale sounds the same.[/font][/color]

Singles?
Definitely different to the splits, but still sound like a precision, if that makes sense?

My verdict?
Like I said earlier, I'm no expert but I would guess that the positioning of the pickup is all important, I think you could put any old neck on any old lump of wood and providing the split pup is in the sweet spot, it would sound like a P!

[ivansc]

Leo`s magic formula, apparently. Same applies to the 6 string guitars as well.

[landwomble]

Possibly this proves that there's no such thing as tonewood and that most hardware doesn't make too much of a difference to the sound...?

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1475222884' post='3144070']
No, not another fan question.

Everyone knows what a precision sounds like. Given that my 2 precisions are entirely different in terms of construction and finish, why do they sound so similar?

One is Alder, with Alico pickups, vintage bridge + saddles and gloss urethane finish, the other is basswood, standard Fender pickup, hi-mass bridge + brass saddles and gloss polyester. Yes, they are both the same shape and have maple necks (of different dimension). Are the P characteristics really down to the split pickup and its placement relative to the strings and bridge?

Edit: The magic appears to be their ability to throw together any old parts and still make the same basic sound.
[/quote]

Theres no magic - a single mid mounted pickup is going to give a fairly strong signature sound that will dominate most other factors.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='landwomble' timestamp='1475229454' post='3144157']
Possibly this proves that there's no such thing as tonewood and that most hardware doesn't make too much of a difference to the sound...?
[/quote]

I'd agree with that, I have four Precisions (US standard, Mex standard, CiJ 60s, Squier VM) and to my mind the only differences in sound are due to the pick ups. All have that classic P bass sound though.

[LayDownThaFunk]

The three main things about bass tone - the pickups, the strings and the playing style.

[Hobbayne]

The P Bass split pickup introduced in 1957 has been used by countless bass makers and copies since then. It seems Fender struck gold with that design.

[BigRedX]

IME all basses sound essentially the same in a given style of music once they have been tweaked to sit properly in the mix.

[randythoades]

Agree with BigRedX, I am a fickle player, I chop and change instruments all the time because I get bored. I can get my P, my J and my violin bass to sound the same with a small adjustment to the EQ to fit in the mix. I think as someone else says, the strings and playing style (which are the same with all my basses) have a big effect. The only difference I find is with pickup output.... butthn I am partially deaf...
And the same with the 6 string. I have and dozens of them, but to me, a squier strat sounds like a strat, a custom shop strat sounds like a strat. You may get a more refined playing experience but it sounds pretty much the same in the mix (with the same player of course).

[matski]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1475235635' post='3144255']
IME all basses sound essentially the same in a given style of music once they have been tweaked to sit properly in the mix.
[/quote]

I disagree.

A Fender Precision sounds different to a Musicman Stingray which sounds different to a Rickenbacker - this is the very reason why I own different types of bass and regularly record specific basslines with specific basses: for their individual sounds.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='matski' timestamp='1475237535' post='3144277']
I disagree.

A Fender Precision sounds different to a Musicman Stingray which sounds different to a Rickenbacker - this is the very reason why I own different types of bass and regularly record specific basslines with specific basses: for their individual sounds.
[/quote]

I too have lots a different basses which all sound different when I play them on their own.

However when I play them with my band, the way I play them and the way I EQ them to fit into the band mix means that ultimately those differences become virtually negligible.

I find that the same happens when I play the guitar too.

I tend to pick my instruments because of how they look, because they all play exactly how I want them too, and by the time I've adjusted my technique and a little tweak of the amp and effects settings and they all sound essentially right.

[chevy-stu]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1475239992' post='3144319']
I too have lots a different basses which all sound different when I play them on their own.

However when I play them with my band, the way I play them and the way I EQ them to fit into the band mix means that ultimately those differences become virtually negligible.

I find that the same happens when I play the guitar too.

I tend to pick my instruments because of how they look, because they all play exactly how I want them too, and by the time I've adjusted my technique and a little tweak of the amp and effects settings and they all sound essentially right.
[/quote]

I think is often the case, the way we play, and subsequently adjust the way we play to hear things right to each persons ear is more relevant than the actual instrument.. Sure they'll sound different compared back to back with the same player, but fundamentally less different in band situation.
I'm in a house band at a jam night quite regularly and usually take my #2 Stingray which others sometimes use, and everyone sounds different with absolutely nothing changed on bass eq or amp..
I've got recording from albums and demos i've been on from the last 25 years, using 6 or 7 different basses, but I can't remember what bass was on what, as they sound quite similar over the years, due to me playing on all
.

[MacDaddy]

Quite interesting that there is still 'Fender magic' when Fender is just a brand.

All they have are Leo's original blueprints and the trademark.

Still I suppose it's a pretty big 'all'

[Grangur]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1475239992' post='3144319']
I too have lots a different basses which all sound different when I play them on their own.

However when I play them with my band, the way I play them and the way I EQ them to fit into the band mix means that ultimately those differences become virtually negligible.

I find that the same happens when I play the guitar too.

I tend to pick my instruments because of how they look, because they all play exactly how I want them too, and by the time I've adjusted my technique and a little tweak of the amp and effects settings and they all sound essentially right.
[/quote]
+1

There are a number of folk here who're always saying:
"All basses sound the same"
"No such thing as tone wood"
"It's all in the fingers"...

I wonder how many of these folk never play the bass in isolation, seldom without effects and overdrive, and have tinnitus or other hearing problems?
Agreed, if you're in the mix with effects etc the differences are very small, but just because YOU can't hear it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

There was another thread where folk were saying there's no difference in sound between a P and a J. Well when I play a 2 pup bass I can hear the duet of the pups, and it's not all in the mind.

[quote name='landwomble' timestamp='1475229454' post='3144157']
Possibly this proves that there's no such thing as tonewood and that most hardware doesn't make too much of a difference to the sound...?
[/quote] Then why do no 2 identical spec Fenders sound the same? And if I'm wrong, why do Fender players keep GASsing and buying and selling almost identical basses? Oh, I get it, variety in paint colour. Besides there's no other difference is there?

[Nicko]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1475244266' post='3144363']


Then why do no 2 identical spec Fenders sound the same? And if I'm wrong, why do Fender players keep GASsing and buying and selling almost identical basses? Oh, I get it, variety in paint colour. Besides there's no other difference is there?
[/quote]

I agree. I should have said in my original post the two basses I have sound slightly different, but they are both clearly Ps

[Grangur]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1475244803' post='3144379']
I agree. I should have said in my original post the two basses I have sound slightly different, but they are both clearly Ps
[/quote]
Yep, but in the mix with a Big Muff on, the difference will be so tiny that it really won't matter.

That said, "Vive la differance!". Enjoy the variety, even if nobody else notices.

[Misdee]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1475235635' post='3144255']
IME all basses sound essentially the same in a given style of music once they have been tweaked to sit properly in the mix.
[/quote]

I have heard top record producers say exactly this, and that the only real difference is whether the bass has new strings on or not.

Similarly to previous posters, I have got a "boutique" Fender-style bass (Lakland USA PJ with a Jazz neck) but my USA Fender basses get far more playing time and are my automatic choice. My 2012 Am St Jazz Bass with CS pickups, for example, sounds so good and is so versatile that it meets all my needs for any style of music.

A good Fender bass (and let's face it, with Fender you do get some dogs at every price point) has got a gutsy sound that can either be supportive or cut through the mix, or even do both of those at the same time.

I like a bass to have a substantial bottom end without sounding artificial or over-hyped by electronics. A good Fender gives me that along with mids that speak and a musical treble. That is a tonal balance that eludes a lot of very expensive fancy basses, most of which, by comparison, are neither robust nor practical.

[Lozz196]

Yep, Fender all the way for me, and more specifically, Precisions. In my experiecnce they do have different sounds, the main one being my old 78 black/black/maple, it was so aggressive, I used to call it Ian Paisley, it literally used to bark at you. But as said, once in the mix and eq`d would we notice - I probably wouldn`t in regards to one Precision or another, and Jazzes can be made to sound fairly Precision like too. A mate had an early 70s Jazz and he had it sounding so Precision-like it was amazing.

[Misdee]

I can vividly remember seeing Bruce Foxton playing live with the Jam around 1979 playing a black/maple Precision that sounded even more growly than his Rickenbacker. Great player, great tone.

[fretmeister]

Do the 5 string precisions sound like a precision?

[LayDownThaFunk]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1475244266' post='3144363']

+1

There are a number of folk here who're always saying:
"All basses sound the same"
"No such thing as tone wood"
"It's all in the fingers"...

I wonder how many of these folk never play the bass in isolation, seldom without effects and overdrive, and have tinnitus or other hearing problems?
Agreed, if you're in the mix with effects etc the differences are very small, but just because YOU can't hear it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

There was another thread where folk were saying there's no difference in sound between a P and a J. Well when I play a 2 pup bass I can hear the duet of the pups, and it's not all in the mind.

Then why do no 2 identical spec Fenders sound the same? And if I'm wrong, why do Fender players keep GASsing and buying and selling almost identical basses? Oh, I get it, variety in paint colour. Besides there's no other difference is there?
[/quote]
Bc Fender buyers like overpriced basses?