mcgraham Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hi I've just picked up a Berg IP112. I wish to maximise the tone this little beastie can provide. Which leads me to the following questions: What [i]exactly[/i] do preamps do? I have a simple understanding of their purpose, but not of their functioning. What is offered by which preamps, e.g. valve, semi-conductor, mic, instrument etc? Do those of you with experience or preamps have any reasoned preferences or words of wisdom to help direct me towards a quality preamp to help maximise my setup? Thanks in advance! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 A standard amp is a preamp and power amp in one box. If you split them up, power amps just give you noise/volume but preamps give you tone via the eq shaping controls that most have. That is why a very popular set up is a solid state or digital power amp and valve preamp. Stand alone power amps are usually more flexible giving you multiple channels, bridging, bi-amping and filtering facilities. Preamps let you use these power amps and tailor your sound. There are discussions on Talkbass about which preamp to use with the IP cabs in order to get the right tone. You've just got to discover which is the right tone for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Thanks for that Chris. I get that they are responsible for the tone shaping, but beyond that I'm a bit stumped! I guess that's the difficulty with splitting up the power amp and preamp portion, you've suddenly got way too much choice! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 You can get an Avalon U5 which has minimal choices, about 5 pre sets, I believe, or you can go mad with something like an Eden Navigator. The basic tone of most preamps will be the same as the regular amps. I think you need to find the "company" sound you like; ie Ampeg, Eden, SWR, Kern, Summit etc. Dood had an Ampeg, alexclaber has an Avalon and Mark at Bass Direct is a good place to start. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 You can use the SansAmp Bass Driver before a power amp too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Ah-hah! I can say more or less for certain I don't want a Sansamp. Whilst I used one for several years, it scooped the sound a bit too much for my liking. Chris, that's a good approach to take. Thanks for advice. Outside of 'signature sound', I'd be looking for something like the PJB bass buddy, simple controls, but with a basic level of adjustability and functions, e.g. eq, headphone out, aux in etc. I'm looking for something with extended highs, something with a bit of bite to it, i.e. to allow a jazz bass to snarl/sizzle. Something that is clear and clean, that warms the lows but doesn't get woolly and stays articulate. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 The basic role of a preamp is to provide a high impedance buffer for your bass guitar's output, followed by sufficient gain to drive your power amp to full volume. It can also include tone-shaping or EQ, plus distortion or compression or even a crossover to drive a biamped rig. No preamp is a perfect straight wire with gain though some really high-end mic preamps as used for classical recording come close (Anthony Jackson uses a Milennia one). Many add colouration which can often be beneficial - the key is to choose the colouration that best suits your bass. The Avalon U5 is the closest you'll get to flat and uncoloured at a reasonable price. I like to use a preamp that gives me the best possible recorded tone and so I can hear that well live I use a relatively transparent cab. If your cab is more coloured but you still tend to DI for gigs and recording you end up with a mismatch between what you're hearing and what the audience is hearing, which isn't ideal especially if you like to use your hands to control your tone. Most bass heads/preamps have a built-in tone curve so their nearest to flat setting is rarely with all the EQ set at 0. For instance both GK and Genz are both flat through the mids, rolled off on the bottom and boosted on the top, SWR are scooped out in the low mids and boosted in the lows and highs, Markbass are actually quite close to flat, etc. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Thanks for the advice Alex, I'll bear that in mind. I guess it's exciting as I've got a flat sounding and well designed cab/amp/combo, so I have the fun ahead of trying preamps. Probably best to look at it that way! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) Hi Mark, I would recommend trying pre amps in a studio environment with as full range a reference as possible. Cabs so often have their own characteristics. I have an Alembic valve pre and I play into it through my own studio into either reference monitors or hooked up to my hi fi, have used it on sessions (all producers/engineers have said "WOW thats good") and Live either direct to PA or with my power amp and Schroeder 1212L. They all vary a little and I'm pleased to say the Alembic is a fantastically consistent and versatile amp. I have compared it with TLA, hand made pre amps in major studios, focusrite mic pres (with line inputs) and lots of others and it kicks all their asses with my Jazz, my Alembic and my upright. I'm sure there are others that are as good so have fun trying a few. Jake Edited October 8, 2008 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 If you want to travel light - and like the sound of your bass DId - get a good DI like the Avalon. If you want to travel light and want a degree of tone shaping, your options are the Sansamp, EBS MicroBass II, and the Radial Bassbone. If travelling light isn't really an issue, get a valve preamp like the Aguilar DB680, Ampeg SVP-CL, Alembic FX1, Demeter or the Warwick Quadruplet, depending on what sound you're after. I think they're almost all discontinued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I like, and recommend, the Sadowsky pedal type preamp if that suits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Thanks for advice. Very helpful, great ways to approach choosing them too. I need one for this weekend in order to get the Berg gig ready, so I've elected to get an ART Tube MP as there's one available from my local music store. Luckily this pre was also recommended to me as a good starter choice by another Berg IP112 user (past user). Honestly, I simply do not know enough about preamps right now to justify spending loads of money on one, nor do I have the time to spend umming and ahhing over which one to choose. This option is a cheap way to get started (jumping right in so to speak), nice and simple, and it's got a good response from users. And if I find it's not for me, at least I know something more than when I started and won't lose too much cash over it. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Have you tried plugging the bass directly into the input socket of the IP panel? You then use the tone controls on the bass. That might be good enough to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 I did indeed. It was somewhat lifeless. Also the volume was quite low for what I've heard it actually produce From what I've been reading, and from what Alex has concisely put... [quote]The basic role of a preamp is to provide a high impedance buffer for your bass guitar's output, followed by sufficient gain to drive your power amp to full volume[/quote]... I believe that a preamp will be necessary for me to maximise the potential of this rig. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 [quote name='mcgraham' post='303145' date='Oct 9 2008, 04:39 PM']I did indeed. It was somewhat lifeless. Also the volume was quite low for what I've heard it actually produce From what I've been reading, and from what Alex has concisely put... ... I believe that a preamp will be necessary for me to maximise the potential of this rig. Mark[/quote] Sure... good luck with the ART. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 'Scuse me if this is a little off on a tangent, but for my upright (fitted with an underwood pu) I use a Fishman Pro-eq Platinum, which I think is the bees knees. It's a bass-specific pedal-type preamp with gain, volume, compression and 5 band graphic. It has a jack input and three outputs: one xlr and two jacks (one for a tuner). You can dial in your sound and send that to your amp, and send a clean signal to the pa. Mostly I just go into the pa and don't bother with an amp on stage. It can use phantom power, battery, or mains adapter. Highly recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Thanks for the input Teej, not at a tangent at all I've picked up the ART now, will give it a test drive this evening. At least now I've got a functioning preamp (I hope!) that will suffice for a time, and I'll be able to try other preamps in the future. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The ART should be fine to start with. I think it has a nice little valve in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 The ART is indeed fine. My [b][i]goodness[/i][/b]! It's turned the Berg into an absolute beast! The gain it shoves into it is insane. Really does illustrate how low the IP can go. I can tell that a preamp with tone shaping would be useful though, just to tweak the sound slightly, but that's just because I'm a perfectionist. I like how the sound improves as the tube warms up. Also it's educational for me to see how to use gain and volume to make the most of the tube preamp. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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