Where To Get A Song Mastered?

[thebrig]

Our band is thinking about recording a song or two sometime soon, nothing major, it's just something we want to do for our own benefits, and also to hand out to family and friends who are always asking if we have any records or CD's they can have, or even buy.

It's still a little way off at the moment, but we are starting to look for somewhere to get them mastered, and quite honestly, we haven't got a clue where to go, or how much it might cost.

Having just read Skol303's thread on having his song mastered at Abbey Road, I realise that I'm probably a bit naive, because I would have thought that £90 + VAT to have a song mastered at Abbey Road Studios is a reasonable price, but as BigRedX said, how much of that price is because of the name? and thinking about it, he is probably right to ask the question.

I have found one place that charges £28 per song, and his list of clients include [color=#3A3A3A][font=Arial]U2, The Killers, Jack White, Noel Gallagher, The Rolling Stones and many more, so I [/font][/color]was wondering if anyone on here has used them, and if so, were you happy with the end results?

Also, any recommendations for other places to get a song mastered would be welcome and appreciated.

[skidder652003]

wow £28 a song from someone with a client list like that? I'd bite their arm off!

[thebrig]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1475666997' post='3147727']
wow £28 a song from someone with a client list like that? I'd bite their arm off!
[/quote]We probably will bite their arm off!

To be honest, it's a fun project for us, so to have someone with that CV master our efforts, for just £28 is a real bonus.

[progben]

I'd recommend David Mitson. He's worked with a lot of big names including Michael Jackson, Santana, Alice in Chains etc. Charges us £60 for a 4 track EP

[cheddatom]

We went with Al Scott for mastering our last album. Not sure how much it was but great results

[Basszilla]

I'd highly recommend gold moon mastering. Dude has golden ears and some incredible gear for the purpose. He's doing my bands new album.

www.goldmoonmastering.com

[ratman]

I used 360 Mastering in Hastings last year. They were great. We were there for the whole afternoon so we had a lot of input during the process. They have some amazing old valve gear. We needed the bottom end tightening up a bit and we got the vocals to sit up in the mix beautifully. We had a couple of tweaks we wanted done afterwards and they were more than helpful in getting things sounding exactly how we wanted. I can't remember exactly how much we paid but it wasn't as much as Abbey Road, maybe £40-50 a song. We thought our mixes were good before but the mastering brought them to life. I'd go back there in a heartbeat.

[TrevorR]

A chum of mine, Darren Poole will do mastering. Don't know his rates but he's a properly good guy and has a great set of ears. Good on a whole range of styles too... Abandon Music Group [url="http://abandonmusic.tumblr.com"]http://abandonmusic.tumblr.com[/url] [url="http://abandonmusic.tumblr.com/"]http://abandonmusic.tumblr.com/[/url]

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='ratman' timestamp='1475682768' post='3147941']
I used 360 Mastering in Hastings last year. They were great.
[/quote]

I was in a punk band with Dick Beetham and Dave Turner when I was in college. Dick was a phenomenal drummer, Dave was a great guitarist too. (Incidentally, the other guitarist forged a career in studio work elsewhere. I just went to work in finance.)

I'm not entirely certain about how 360 came about; Dick engineered some well known albums and one thing clearly led to another!

[M@23]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1475666750' post='3147724']
Our band is thinking about recording a song or two sometime soon, nothing major, it's just something we want to do for our own benefits, and also to hand out to family and friends who are always asking if we have any records or CD's they can have, or even buy.

It's still a little way off at the moment, but we are starting to look for somewhere to get them mastered, and quite honestly, we haven't got a clue where to go, or how much it might cost.

Having just read Skol303's thread on having his song mastered at Abbey Road, I realise that I'm probably a bit naive, because I would have thought that £90 + VAT to have a song mastered at Abbey Road Studios is a reasonable price, but as BigRedX said, how much of that price is because of the name? and thinking about it, he is probably right to ask the question.

I have found one place that charges £28 per song, and his list of clients include [color=#3A3A3A][font=Arial]U2, The Killers, Jack White, Noel Gallagher, The Rolling Stones and many more, so I [/font][/color]was wondering if anyone on here has used them, and if so, were you happy with the end results?

Also, any recommendations for other places to get a song mastered would be welcome and appreciated.
[/quote]

I've used Pete, he is sound. A genuinely nice guy that offers great rates for unsigned bands. Have used him a few times and it's always great.

Edited October 5, 2016 by M@23

[thebrig]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1475690496' post='3148035']
I've used Pete, he is sound. A genuinely nice guy that offers great rates for unsigned bands. Have used him a few times and it's always great.
[/quote]That's good to know, thanks.

[thebrig]

[quote name='progben' timestamp='1475668842' post='3147750']
I'd recommend David Mitson. He's worked with a lot of big names including Michael Jackson, Santana, Alice in Chains etc. Charges us £60 for a 4 track EP
[/quote]I see that you are just up the road from me in Stourbridge, is David local? because it would be nice to be able to have some [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]input during the process[/font][/color] if possible.

[thebrig]

Thanks for all the recommendations so far, we will check them all out before making a decision.

[PaulWarning]

with the best mastering in the world you can't polish a turd, with our last CD I actually preferred the non mastered version, had more heft
edit, not saying yours is a bad recording btw, but we've fallen into that trap before

Edited October 6, 2016 by PaulWarning

[BigRedX]

Formation Audio in Nottingham did the last three Terrortones releases, and IMO did an excellent job on all of them. Price was reasonable and we were able to get two sets of changes made to the masters included in the price.

IME £25 per track is about the bottom limit for any one who is going to do a decent job.

[thebrig]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1475741540' post='3148302']
with the best mastering in the world you can't polish a turd, with our last CD I actually preferred the non mastered version, had more heft
edit, not saying yours is a bad recording btw, but we've fallen into that trap before
[/quote]Don't worry, we'll be sending plenty of turds off to get mastered! seriously though, no offence taken, I know what you are getting at.

But in reality, what you are saying could apply to us, our songs will be mixed by a guy who is experienced in mixing although he has never done it professionally, but what should help is he is about the same age as us and he likes and is familiar with the music we play, so at least he will know what we are looking for in the final mix, and although we are all decent musicians, we are really just a gigging band, not a recording band, as I pointed out earlier, these recordings are for our own satisfaction, and to hand out to family, friends, and venues as demos.

[Skol303]

I haven't used these guys myself... but they seem to have a consistently good reputation based on what 'research' I've gleaned from reading feedback on other forums:

http://www.doctormix.com

They've been around for 10+ years and have a solid client list.

[thebrig]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1475751872' post='3148424']
I haven't used these guys myself... but they seem to have a consistently good reputation based on what 'research' I've gleaned from reading feedback on other forums:

[url="http://www.doctormix.com"]http://www.doctormix.com[/url]

They've been around for 10+ years and have a solid client list
[/quote]Thanks, I just took a look on their site and have already subscribed, I'm impressed by their site, and the prices seem to be ok as well, I think we will definitely check them out when the time comes.

I know virtually nothing about about recording, but I have gained fair a bit of knowledge over the last few days because I have been watching quite a few Logic Pro tutorials, and I have the gear to get some reasonable recordings into Logic, but that's where it ends for me, but I'm retired now and have a fair bit of time on my hands, so this could be my new hobby in my "old git" years.

[Skol303]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1475754957' post='3148468']I'm retired now and have a fair bit of time on my hands, so this could be my new hobby in my "old git" years.[/quote]

Do it! Do it! Do it!

Come and say hello in the Recording forum if you need any pointers on how to get started.

BC'er Dad3353, another regular in the Rec' forum, took a similar route and started producing music in his retirement. He's now putting together some rather excellent mixes! The learning curve can be a little steep at first but it soon levels out...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Skol303

[Dad3353]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1475754957' post='3148468']...this could be my new hobby in my "old git" years.
[/quote]
[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1475757745' post='3148501']
Do it! Do it! Do it! ...
[/quote]

Don't listen to those siren calls..! That way, madness lies. How do I know this..? Don't ask..!
On a more positive note (maybe..?), be aware, if not already, that one's hearing in later years is seldom as pristine as early youth, and much worse than one would hope for. This makes music production and mixing especially difficult. Is there hope..? Yes, but some self-criticism becomes rather important. My trick (for what it's worth...) is to compare my stuff with other, commercial, renderings, to judge (badly...) whether I've got too much bass or treble in there. After a long career in drumming, and rock generally, plus advancing years, my ears are, to use a technical term, 'shot'. I therefore am basically mixing 'blind' most of the time. I'll make an adjustment of, say, 6db, so that I hear the difference, then apply half of that. My general 'rule of thumb' is that, if I can hear it, it's too much. It can be frustrating at times, so I very seldom go in for 'micro-management', and trust my first instincts rather better than long hours of listening to inaudible (to me...) details. Broad stroke of the brush, in other words.
I'm also spoilt, in that my tastes are rather 'old-school', even classical, and I'm not at all at ease with modern EDM (it took me a while to know what that even stands for...). Trombones; now there's an instrument I can hear and deal with. None of this oscilloscope whistling or arp synth sweeps for me (well, all right; just a little, then...). No 'big beat' thump thump thump either. Timpani, that's the stuff, or, at least, a rock beat.Pshaw..! The joys of becoming 'senior' is that I can be grumpy and folks find it normal.
No, best, after all, to see about crossword puzzles, or whittling, putting ships into bottles or growing dahlias. S'not for the old, this malarkey. How do I know this..? Don't ask...
([i]Now then, where's my Digestives..? I had a packet, there were some left. Darn it..! On the table, so I'll have to leave my armchair..! Nurse..! Nurse..?[/i] ...)

Edited October 6, 2016 by Dad3353

[thebrig]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1475759520' post='3148527']
Don't listen to those siren calls..! That way, madness lies. How do I know this..? Don't ask..!
On a more positive note (maybe..?), be aware, if not already, that one's hearing in later years is seldom as pristine as early youth, and much worse than one would hope for. This makes music production and mixing especially difficult. Is there hope..? Yes, but some self-criticism becomes rather important. My trick (for what it's worth...) is to compare my stuff with other, commercial, renderings, to judge (badly...) whether I've got too much bass or treble in there. After a long career in drumming, and rock generally, plus advancing years, my ears are, to use a technical term, 'shot'. I therefore am basically mixing 'blind' most of the time. I'll make an adjustment of, say, 6db, so that I hear the difference, then apply half of that. My general 'rule of thumb' is that, if I can hear it, it's too much. It can be frustrating at times, so I very seldom go in for 'micro-management', and trust my first instincts rather better than long hours of listening to inaudible (to me...) details. Broad stroke of the brush, in other words.
I'm also spoilt, in that my tastes are rather 'old-school', even classical, and I'm not at all at ease with modern EDM (it took me a while to know what that even stands for...). Trombones; now there's an instrument I can hear and deal with. None of this oscilloscope whistling or arp synth sweeps for me (well, all right; just a little, then...). No 'big beat' thump thump thump either. Timpani, that's the stuff, or, at least, a rock beat.Pshaw..! The joys of becoming 'senior' is that I can be grumpy and folks find it normal.
No, best, after all, to see about crossword puzzles, or whittling, putting ships into bottles or growing dahlias. S'not for the old, this malarkey. How do I know this..? Don't ask...
([i]Now then, where's my Digestives..? I had a packet, there were some left. Darn it..! On the table, so I'll have to leave my armchair..! Nurse..! Nurse..?[/i] ...)
[/quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#282828]EDM (it took me a while to know what that even stands for...),[/color][/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#282828]I would have thought that the least you could do for an OAP who is about to embark on a long journey into learning how to use DAWS properly, and eventually (hopefully) go on to mixing and mastering, is to let [u]me[/u] know what took [u]you[/u] a while to know, so wtf [u]does[/u] EDM stands for! [/color][/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#282828]Seriously though, I take on board all that you say, and have to admit that my ears are shot as well, and I realise the need to compensate for it if I can.[/color][/font]
[color=#282828][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I know it's not going to be easy, and I will be starting from the very beginning, but at least I think I have the equipment to record the instruments into Logic Pro X, and I hope that my MacBook Pro will be up to the task, it's specs are,15" Retina Display, [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.7GHz, 16GB 1600MHz memory, 512GB PCIe-based flash storage[/font][/color][sup]1, [/sup][color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Intel Iris Pro Graphics AMD Radeon R9 M370X with 2GB GDDR5 memory.[/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I have to admit that I don't grasp things as easily as I used to, so it will take time, but like I said, I now have time to learn even if its at a slow rate. [/font][/color]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1475774606' post='3148704']
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#282828]EDM (it took me a while to know what that even stands for...),..[/color][/font]
[/quote]
Your Mac is well up in the high end of the range; no problems there. Don't forget to back stuff up from time to time, of course (weekly..?). And yes, sorry; Electronic Dance Music (OK, a bit late...).
One advantage with duff ears is that there's no point going overboard with uber-expensive headphones and monitors. Not rubbish either, of course, but those last tinkling decibels in the ultrasonic are entirely wasted on an old fogey such as I, at any rate. Robust, well-rated, semi-pro gear rather than next week's fashion is slightly less expensive, and leaves a bit more cash for decent Vst instruments or mixing tools. Not that one needs that much, I find. A decent EQ, a modest compressor, an airy delay and reverb and most bases are covered. There's an excellent site, I might add, which makes available a whole host of raw 'stems' (the individual tracks that compose a song...) to download and mix for oneself, and even compare with other mixes. A good 'parallel' exercise to one's own efforts, to try things out, hear how others do things and generally get used to manipulating one's equipment and software. It's free, and much fun. The bloke that runs it is a splendid fellow, who answers queries, too, even my 'noobie' ones...

[url="http://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms-mtk.htm"]Mike Senior 'Mixing Secrets'...[/url]

One last word of advice... Don't do as I did, and download/install a whole slurry of Vst stuff, just because they're free (and very good, mostly...). It's a disease not recognised by the medical profession, and difficult to cure once it's taken hold. I'm slowly recovering, but still have well over 100 plugins that I've not even had any time to listen to, let alone master, and have since learned that 'less is more', at least for the first 40 years or so. You have been amply warned (but I fully expect you'll be treading the same rocky road as all of us once the bug's bite takes hold...).
In any case, have fun.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Dad3353

[BigRedX]

Having been an enthusiastic home recordist since the 70s when it was considerably harder to do that it is now, I would like to offer the following advice:

It's never been easier or cheaper to make your own recordings at home - all you need to get you started is a computer (nearly everyone has one of those), some software (it's far cheaper now than it has ever been and Reaper is essentially free) and some means of getting audio into your computer (an audio interface and some microphones).

However despite the initial investment being low, if you get into it, you'll soon find yourself wanting or needing to spend more on all sorts of add on from 3rd-party plug-ins or a better interface/microphones/monitor speakers. And if you thought to bass playing was a potential bottomless money pit, then think again because it's completely insignificant compared to what you can spend on even a modest home studio set up.

In my case having got some very reasonable results with hardly any gear (and certainly nothing that could really have been considered "professional" standard at the time), I came into some money in the early 90s and went out and bought myself a decent home studio set up based around an 8-track recorder and a load of outboard hardware effects and instruments. Over the next ten years I spent several tens of thousands of pounds upgrading and expanding this to a computer based digital system and a load of plug-in instruments and effects.

And I made some pretty good recordings along the way. Quite a few of them got released on CDs - some that I financed myself and some that were paid for by various small record companies. However despite the fact that my recordings were sounding better than ever, they still didn't have that certain magic that recordings by my favourite signed artists did. I don't think the source material was at fault. There were certainly plenty of music industry people who seemed to like the songs that my bands were producing for them to want to get involved, it just seemed to me that there was something lacking with the recordings themselves.

When I joined The Terrortones and we came to record our first single there was never any question that we would do it ourselves. We wanted to play live and all my recordings since the early 80s had been done by building the performances one or two instruments at a time. I didn't have either space or the microphones to record a real drum kit. So we booked a local studio that had a sufficiently large live room to comfortably get the whole band in and went to record there. That was certainly an ear and eye opener! The audio engineer got excellent results very quickly and everything was sounding fantastic almost straight away, and certainly far better than I had ever achieved at home, and that was before we started mixing the tracks properly. The whole process including mixing and mastering 3 songs took about 24 hours, spread over 4 days.

It was a massive change from my previous recording experience with my last band where I had spent well over a year working almost every evening on tracks for an album in my home studio; and in the end all I had to show for it was three quarters of the album done but not sounding as good as I wanted it to, and the rest unfinished recordings that would remain that way since the band had split.

In hind-sight based on my experiences recording with The Terrortones, I can't help but think that all the money I had spent on home recording equipment might have been better put to use hiring a decent studio and a name producer for a few weeks. At the end of it I would have had a finished album recorded and there is a good chance that I would also have had enough money left over to press up our own CD, if none of the people who had shown and interest in the band had come through.

After all that, it's not to say that you won't turn out to be a fantastic engineer and producer once you figure out how to make the equipment work. However IME just because you are a decent musician doesn't automatically mean that you can make decent recordings. And sometime the presence of an impartial person at the recording/mixing session can be exactly what you need.

However I've sold nearly all my home recording gear, and I'm unlikely to be using what I have left for anything more than getting my ideas in a form where I can play them to the rest of my band to show them how I envisage the songs I am writing turning out.

[Skol303]

^ Very wise words. Great post.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1475778477' post='3148747']
Having been an enthusiastic home recordist since the 70s when it was considerably harder to do that it is now, I would like to offer the following advice:

It's never been easier or cheaper to make your own recordings at home - all you need to get you started is a computer (nearly everyone has one of those), some software (it's far cheaper now than it has ever been and Reaper is essentially free) and some means of getting audio into your computer (an audio interface and some microphones).

However despite the initial investment being low, if you get into it, you'll soon find yourself wanting or needing to spend more on all sorts of add on from 3rd-party plug-ins or a better interface/microphones/monitor speakers. And if you thought to bass playing was a potential bottomless money pit, then think again because it's completely insignificant compared to what you can spend on even a modest home studio set up.

In my case having got some very reasonable results with hardly any gear (and certainly nothing that could really have been considered "professional" standard at the time), I came into some money in the early 90s and went out and bought myself a decent home studio set up based around an 8-track recorder and a load of outboard hardware effects and instruments. Over the next ten years I spent several tens of thousands of pounds upgrading and expanding this to a computer based digital system and a load of plug-in instruments and effects.

And I made some pretty good recordings along the way. Quite a few of them got released on CDs - some that I financed myself and some that were paid for by various small record companies. However despite the fact that my recordings were sounding better than ever, they still didn't have that certain magic that recordings by my favourite signed artists did. I don't think the source material was at fault. There were certainly plenty of music industry people who seemed to like the songs that my bands were producing for them to want to get involved, it just seemed to me that there was something lacking with the recordings themselves.

When I joined The Terrortones and we came to record our first single there was never any question that we would do it ourselves. We wanted to play live and all my recordings since the early 80s had been done by building the performances one or two instruments at a time. I didn't have either space or the microphones to record a real drum kit. So we booked a local studio that had a sufficiently large live room to comfortably get the whole band in and went to record there. That was certainly an ear and eye opener! The audio engineer got excellent results very quickly and everything was sounding fantastic almost straight away, and certainly far better than I had ever achieved at home, and that was before we started mixing the tracks properly. The whole process including mixing and mastering 3 songs took about 24 hours, spread over 4 days.

It was a massive change from my previous recording experience with my last band where I had spent well over a year working almost every evening on tracks for an album in my home studio; and in the end all I had to show for it was three quarters of the album done but not sounding as good as I wanted it to, and the rest unfinished recordings that would remain that way since the band had split.

In hind-sight based on my experiences recording with The Terrortones, I can't help but think that all the money I had spent on home recording equipment might have been better put to use hiring a decent studio and a name producer for a few weeks. At the end of it I would have had a finished album recorded and there is a good chance that I would also have had enough money left over to press up our own CD, if none of the people who had shown and interest in the band had come through.

After all that, it's not to say that you won't turn out to be a fantastic engineer and producer once you figure out how to make the equipment work. However IME just because you are a decent musician doesn't automatically mean that you can make decent recordings. And sometime the presence of an impartial person at the recording/mixing session can be exactly what you need.

However I've sold nearly all my home recording gear, and I'm unlikely to be using what I have left for anything more than getting my ideas in a form where I can play them to the rest of my band to show them how I envisage the songs I am writing turning out.
[/quote]my thoughts too, it really doesn't cost that much to go into a good local studio and get good results, they know what they're doing after years of experience