Stop Nuisance Neighbours Closing Venues Petition

[Roger2611]

Signed 9152 (if I was paying attention!)

[mcnach]

... and done

[charic]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1475860361' post='3149355']
Yup, well spotted, I've seen Lozz play there and its a nice little venue, been there for years, with the 'place of worship' a recent newcomer.

Signed BTW 9137
[/quote]

Thought it might be, they were creating a bit of a nuisance when I played there a few years back...

[mikegatward]

9667 and counting

[ezbass]

10,091 e-signatures; first milestone achieved.

[zbd1960]

It's worth making some noise. My limited experience is that some attention is paid and despite sometimes justified levels of cynicism, they try to do the right thing, sometimes.

I think we are seeing a problem created by the 'need' post crash to encourage local development which does seem to have given council's the idea to authorise stupid developments which previously would have been turned down flat.

[alyctes]

Signed.

[stingrayPete1977]

10'206 fwiw

[Bassman Sam]

Signed.

[TimR]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1475824789' post='3148943']
Forgive for being a bit cynical what exactly does this achieve?

It say "At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition" What sort of response? Thank you we'll have a look at it, meaning Now f*** off so we can make some money with our property development friends...

And "At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament". That doesn't actually mean it will get debated, and you can be sure that even if it does it will be by and handful of backbench MPs late on a Tuesday evening when everyone is ready to go home...
[/quote]

Seems fraught with difficulties to me.

Someone would/will have to write a very careful law that takes into account current levels of 'nuisance noise' being created by the venue and then once any development takes place, demonstrate that the level of 'nuisance noise' has not increased.

Maybe venues should apply for some kind of licence to make certain amount of noise between set periods of times.

If it's not done carefully you'll just get any old pub playing this card against its neighbours anytime it wants to make a noise. "You moved next to a pub, what did you expect?"

Personally I think bands are too loud and getting louder and the 24hour licences now mean pubs can be playing extremely loud music at midnight when previously the noise would have been less intrusive and stopped by 11pm.

It's all going to boil down to what the level of noise is and how long it's been going on previous to the development application.

[stingrayPete1977]

[b]THREAD REVIVAL[/b]

I have received this today as I suspect everyone else that signed it did.
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]
[i]The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “[url="https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168135"]Support Live Music Venues by preventing inappropriate complaints being actioned[/url]”.[/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]
[i]Government responded:[/i][/size][/font][/color][indent][font=arial]
[i]Music venues are a vibrant and vital part of the music ecosystem and economy and government will continue to support and promote an environment in which UK’s live music industry can carry on thriving[/i][/font][/indent][indent][font=arial]
[i]Between 2010-2015 government introduced a package of deregulation, including the Live Music Act 2012, removing the need for entertainment licences in certain circumstances and increasing the audience limit for performances of live amplified music in relevant alcohol licensed premises from 200 to 500 people[/i][/font][font=arial]
[i]Additional licensing conditions should only be imposed on a business where appropriate - statutory guidance is clear that licensing authorities should avoid disproportionate measures that could deter valuable community events, such as live music.[/i][/font][font=arial]
[i]We have also made changes to national planning guidance and permitted development rights, helping to prevent noise complaints from new development on existing businesses. National planning policy for England as set out in the National Planning Policy Framework sets out that existing businesses wanting to develop in continuance of their business should not have unreasonable restrictions put on them because of changes in nearby land uses since they were established. The planning guidance supporting the Framework is clear that the potential effect of a new residential development being located close to an existing business giving rise to noise should be carefully considered. The guidance underlines planning’s contribution to avoiding future complaints and risks to local business from resulting enforcement action. To help avoid such situations, local councils are encouraged to consider appropriate mitigation including designing the new development to reduce the impact of noise from the local environment and optimising the sound insulation provided by the building envelope.

On 6 April, the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) (Amendment) Order 2016 made permanent the permitted development right for the change of use from office to residential. The permanent right includes a prior approval on noise, allowing consideration by local planning authorities of plans to mitigate the impacts of noise from commercial premises on the residents. In considering the prior approval, the local planning authorities will have regard to the relevant parts of the National Planning Policy Framework and supporting planning guidance, as would be the case under a planning application.[/i][/font][font=arial]
[i]We want to encourage people to live in our towns and cities, while enabling small grassroots music venues to flourish - giving musicians and artists the opportunity to perform in front of a live audience and providing communities with a social and cultural attraction.[/i][/font][font=arial]
[i]We will continue to engage with the industry and local authorities to support this important and dynamic sector.[/i][/font][font=arial]
[i]Department for Culture, Media and Sport[/i][/font][/indent][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]
[i]Click this link to view the response online:[/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]
[i][url="https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168135?reveal_response=yes"]https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168135?reveal_response=yes[/url][/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]
[i]The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.[/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]
[i]The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: [url="https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee"]https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee[/url][/i][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]
[i]Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament[/i][/size][/font][/color]

[Rich]

Am I reading this wrong, or is the burden still very much on the venue to mask their noise (at considerable or even, as often in the past, bankrupting cost), rather than on the developer to cater for it in his design/construction? The phrase "appropriate mitigation" is a bit ominous.

[stingrayPete1977]

[i]National planning policy for England as set out in the National Planning Policy Framework sets out that existing businesses wanting to develop in continuance of their business should not have unreasonable restrictions put on them because of changes in nearby land uses since they were established.[/i]

This isn't what it is about either, no one mentioned expanding the existing noise making business after new houses are built.

[skej21]

The message I took from that was;

'[i]Please make music for us so you can[/i] [i]provide "[/i][i]communities" (read "developers") with a social and cultural attraction to profit from when selling our hotel/housing developments to tourists or house buyers etc... BUT DO IT QUIETLY YOU BLOODY HIPPIES!'[/i]

[xgsjx]

I didn't see this back in October. Now signed.

[Graham]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1483785315' post='3210048']
The message I took from that was;

'[i]Please make music for us so you can[/i] [i]provide "[/i][i]communities" (read "developers") with a social and cultural attraction to profit from when selling our hotel/housing developments to tourists or house buyers etc... BUT DO IT QUIETLY YOU BLOODY HIPPIES!'[/i]
[/quote]

Yup, that was my reading of it.

[spike]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1483783142' post='3210026']
Am I reading this wrong, or is the burden still very much on the venue to mask their noise (at considerable or even, as often in the past, bankrupting cost), rather than on the developer to cater for it in his design/construction? The phrase "appropriate mitigation" is a bit ominous.
[/quote]

I read it that the 'appropriate mitigation' should be the developer's responsibility

[i]appropriate mitigation including designing the new development to reduce the impact of noise from the local environment and optimising the sound insulation provided by the building envelope. [/i]

[taunton-hobbit]

I note that Sankeys (Manchester) are closing (immediately) after the whole block was sold to a residential developer.
....All seems a little quick?...........

[timmo]

Its a bit like people moving to a rural area and complain the church bells and cockerals are waking them up

[TimR]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1484353110' post='3214993']
Its a bit like people moving to a rural area and complain the church bells and cockerals are waking them up
[/quote]

It really depends on the context which is why a blanket law is a bad idea.

If you move next to a church you expect to hear bells on a Sunday morning between 9:30 and 12:00, and on a Saturday afternoon for weddings and one evening a week for bell practice.

If you move next to a farm that has a cockerel that's one thing, if your neighbour decides to keep chickens because they live in the countryside that's a completely different matter.

You have a duty not to be a nuisance to your neighbours. Pubs used to close at 11pm, a band playing 21:00-23:00 once a week is acceptable. Playing until midnight or later begins to be a nuisance and if you can hear the music inside your house with the windows closed that's unacceptable. Again if it's a music venue like a nightclub, that's different.