Theory. Yes please or a bit of a yawn?

[Barking Spiders]

After skimming through a thread on creating basslines I'm left wondering about how much theory you really bother with if you're not playing jazz. As with guitar I know all the notes on the fretboard, can run through scales and can play most chords but there my knowledge about theory stops. When covering tunes I just listen, copy and sometimes adapt. End of. I'm not interested in improv when playing live largely cos it seems to bore the tits off most punters. Anyone else keen on learning theory or are you just happy knowing how to play setlists?

[wateroftyne]

This is one that comes up quite often.

The general gist is that everyone's different - I'm probably similar to you, yet I don't feel hindered.

[ambient]

It's always been an interest of ,mine, I have loads of books collected over the years, and it was one of my best subjects on my degree.

In my opinion I think the average person just really needs to know the notes on the fretboard, and basic chord theory, major, minor, dominant etc. So they know what notes they can play over a given chord. That's how I set about teaching anyway.

Edited October 7, 2016 by ambient

[Cato]

I suspect a lot of us know more theory than we think.

We know which notes work with various chords & keys- we just don't know the technical name or explanation for that knowledge.

[Dave_the_bass]

I'm in an originals band so slightly different situation.

I play by ear and feel when creating bass lines so not applying musical theory with any level of intention but, when I've got the line I'm happy with I do like to research/learn why it works as it adds to my palette of possibilities for the future. This method has also allowed me to sit back and write an inventive bass line or two when the only thing I could come up with in the band writing session was a very simple root note and fill type of line.

So yeah, I find music theory interesting but I don't allow my limited knowledge to constrain me.

[FuNkShUi]

I know a good bit of theory. Not as much as some on here, but more than most i would guess.
That has 100% helped me be a better player. But more than that, it has helped me "talk music" when with other musicians.
Is it the be all and end all though? No. Can you still be a great player without it? Yes.
BUT.....However great a player you are without that knowledge of theory, IMO, knowing the theory will always improve you.
My guess is that anyone who says "learning theory will make me worse because it ruins my creativity" or something along those lines, don't know much theory

[MacDaddy]

You don't miss what you don't have.

But if I didn't have it, I would miss it.

[Happy Jack]

As long as I can copy the best ideas from better musicians than me, I'm happy.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1475841654' post='3149130']
As long as I can copy the best ideas from better musicians than me, I'm happy.
[/quote]
you can copy my ideas then

[gapiro]

Some very correct comments here and above and not much to add.
Generally I think most people know a bit more theory than they tend to let on, or are unable to communicate it.
Most people know that going from a C Major to a G or F sounds nice, even if they can't explain it.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1475841723' post='3149134']
you can copy my ideas then
[/quote]

No worries ... just waiting for a decent one to appear.

[ambient]

One thing I would add to my previous post, is don't get caught in the trap of relying on shapes and patterns, play notes not bass lines.

Also, neither knowing what you're playing, or being able to read music will ever impede your creativity in any way, shape or form.

Edited October 7, 2016 by ambient

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1475842013' post='3149140']
No worries ... just waiting for a decent one to appear.
[/quote]

[Happy Jack]

[URL=http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Just%20Stuff/GIF%20files/khoiij.gif.html][IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Just%20Stuff/GIF%20files/khoiij.gif[/IMG][/URL]

[mikel]

I have no interest in musical theory for any instrument. I am from the old school. Listen, try to play,listen again. Modify, adapt, use happy accidents. Dont copy or "Study" anyone, enjoy there playing personality and absorb a little of it into your playing. Try to be a little different and have your own playing personality/sound. Its Rock and Roll, there are no rules.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Barking Spiders' timestamp='1475839947' post='3149098']
Anyone else keen on learning theory or are you just happy knowing how to play setlists?
[/quote]

With theory I think you have to "feel the need" yourself as no amount of other people telling you its a good idea for the sake of it is likely to be persuasive. Do you feel limited in some way ?, wish you could do something better in particular circumstances ?, if yes could knowing more theory help ?. Only you can really answer this.

Myself I generally play only covers and use it to help work out songs and so I can vary and mess around with the bass lines, its also invaluable for explaining to other band members what they are doing wrong .

For reference here a post I make some time ago with links to core theory explanations [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/275549-theoryreading-music-where-should-i-start/page__view__findpost__p__2942210"]here[/url]

[uk_lefty]

One day I promise myself I will learn theory. I know it will make me a beeter player, however I have to put my dedicated music time in to learning new songs for the set and keeping my technique up. I think learning more theory will help me learn new songs more quickly and pick up by ear songs I hear on the radio more effectively. I just haven't had time to do it yet even though I know there's return on investment.
I think it's like learning a new language. You need to know and understand the grammar (which is complicated and boring) because without it you can stumble through just learning translations of individual words but if you don't understand the grammar you will always make mistakes and not always see the patterns in what other people are saying.
However with music, like a language, no matter how competent you are there is nothing quite like throwing yourself in and seeing how you get on

[Coilte]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1475844921' post='3149175']
I have no interest in musical theory for any instrument. I am from the old school. Listen, try to play,listen again. Modify, adapt, use happy accidents. Dont copy or "Study" anyone, enjoy there playing personality and absorb a little of it into your playing. Try to be a little different and have your own playing personality/sound. Its Rock and Roll, there are no rules.
[/quote]

I too, am old school and learned to play be ear, mainly because I had no choice. Lessons were scarce and the Internet had not come into being.

While I am glad that I was forced to learn by ear, I am also glad that today, there is a wealth of information to be had. Lots of "old school" players have at least some basic theory. Jack Bruce and James Jameson had a lot more than basic theory.

Not liking, or being bored by theory is one thing, and that's up to each individual. However, knowing some basic theory never impeded anyone's playing, or their progress. In fact, you'll find that quite the opposite is the case. It certainly is the case with me.

[bassjim]

Knowledge is power as the saying goes. If you want to advance faster, break down barriers, communicate on a musical level with bandmates, write with ease, learn new music (especially covers) effortlessly then theory is the answer. You still need good technique so you don't have to stop playing what you like how you like. You wont loose anything you have gained so far.
Its hard at first but as soon as the basic modes, scales and how they fit together penny drops, the worlds your oyster. From there you can develop it as far and as wide as you want to but without these basics its like taking the chain off your bicycle. Its all ok as long as its downhill, sunny and in a straight line.

[Kirky]

The thing is there are rules. If you don't know them, it doesn't mean they aren't there. I hear a lot of bass players playing a minor (or pentatonic/blues) run where a major one would be much more appropriate. I know theory well, but I never need to go anywhere near modes (at least for the music I play).

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1475847800' post='3149210']
I hear a lot of bass players playing a minor (or pentatonic/blues) run where a major one would be much more appropriate.
[/quote]

Presumably they don't have a very good ear...?

[ambient]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1475844921' post='3149175']
Its Rock and Roll, there are no rules.
[/quote]

It's music, no matter what you call it, or how you dress it up, and there are rules. You can learn or study them, or discover them accidentally, but they're there.

I remember seeing a similar thread a while ago. Someone posted that they didn't know what they were playing, and used to just play all the notes randomly until they found something that would fit over a chord, then they'd do the same over the next chord. So trial and error. Wouldn't it be easier and quicker to know what you could play over a chord, and how what you choose to play would sound like ?

Edited October 7, 2016 by ambient

[Coilte]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1475847705' post='3149208']
its like taking the chain off your bicycle. Its all ok as long as its downhill, sunny and in a straight line.
[/quote]

. Great comparison.



[quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1475847800' post='3149210']
The thing is there are rules. If you don't know them, it doesn't mean they aren't there. I hear a lot of bass players playing a minor (or pentatonic/blues) run where a major one would be much more appropriate. I know theory well, but I never need to go anywhere near modes (at least for the music I play).
[/quote]


I agree with all the above.. As for modes, IMO this is one of the main things that puts people off of learning theory. What happens is they dive headlong into modes from the beginning, without having put in some basic ground work first. There is A LOT of more basic stuff to nail, before learning about modes.

[Norris]

Having done A level music and grade 8 on the bass trombone as a youth, I had to learn theory. Personally I think I'm a better bass player for it. It's not essential though

[Barking Spiders]

I only play stuff I like and so in terms of progression I'm limited by this and get a bit frustrated. I know I've a chance of improving if I listened to and studied jazz/fusion players like Wootten, Bailey, Berlin, Patitucci etc - which would involve more advanced theory - but just don't like this type of music. If I learnt their styles of chops and tried to fit them in with what I like to play it'd sound well out of place.