Aguilar DB 410, 212 or 112x2 with Genz STM 900?

[countjodius]

Hey all!

I am changing up my rig soon, and am trying to decide between the above cabinet configs. Does anybody have any experience of pairing the Genz Benz Streamliner 900 with any of these set ups? I was initially thinking the 2 x112 stack, but have read that the 212 cab is a little tighter in the low end which could be useful for this particular head.

Thanks for any info or insights!

[Musicman20]

The DB212 is my favourite bass cabinet. I've tried a lot. It's glorious!

[acidbass]

I use the 410 with a DB751 head, quality thump out of that setup!

[countjodius]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1476022468' post='3150483']
The DB212 is my favourite bass cabinet. I've tried a lot. It's glorious!
[/quote]

Interesting! How do you find the weight/portability (i.e. will do myself a hernia carrying it up to my 3rd floor apartment?!). I see some 212 users saying they wish they'd opted for the modular 2 x 112 for transporting.

[quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1476023199' post='3150491']
I use the 410 with a DB751 head, quality thump out of that setup!
[/quote]

I love the DB 751, but unfortunately portability is more of a consideration for the domestic gigs! The STM 900 is in the ballpark though for a class D, so could maybe work well with the DB 410 also!

Cheers for the info so far! Any other experiences?

[JTUK]

[quote name='countjodius' timestamp='1476048406' post='3150880']
Interesting! How do you find the weight/portability (i.e. will do myself a hernia carrying it up to my 3rd floor apartment?!). I see some 212 users saying they wish they'd opted for the modular 2 x 112 for transporting.



I love the DB 751, but unfortunately portability is more of a consideration for the domestic gigs! The STM 900 is in the ballpark though for a class D, so could maybe work well with the DB 410 also!

Cheers for the info so far! Any other experiences?
[/quote]

My A rig is a DB rig and the DB212 is indeed a a belting cab... BUT not for 3 flights of stairs, I'm afraid.

I use TKS S112's for a light modular rig and they are great little cabs and light to boot...(10kg)
I'd put them up against the DB112's as a consideration but without AB'ing them, I've a feeling I'd stick with the TKS112's...
Having said that, I prefer the DB212 with the DB750 amp...( but haven't tried the swap the amp/cab combos around yet, and I do LIKE the DB212.
IF the DB112 x 2 was the same sound, I might go for that but I feel it would be close and not something I'd swap now, since I have already bought them..

If I was in the market, I would seriously be trying to hear them side by side.

I know of a pair or Bergs going for sale.... I believe they are ceramics and HS112's

In our little review, ..which you could find on here, we A'B'd SL112, CN112 and S112 and the TKS came out of top..and that is very good company indeed, IMO.

[chris_b]

DB cabs sound great but are too heavy for me these days.

IMO the TH500 is a better amp to use with DB cabs than the Streamliner.

[molan]

Could be that I'm too old but I wouldn't want to haul any of the three cab combinations up 3 flights of stairs.

Both the DB212 and the DB410 are fairly 'serious' lifts and lugging a DB112 in each hand is going to get you a set of gorilla arms pretty quickly

Not too bad with the DB112 if you make two trips (which I'm guessing you'd need to anyway to carry bass, amp cables etc).

The new Aggie SL410 is a great cab and fairly easy to shift around, although any 410 is going to be a bit bulky in a tight stairwell.

Unfortunately it's over £1,250 so quite an expensive option vs a DB410.

We had a customer recently who tested a Streamliner into SL112's, DB112's and a pair of TKS112's.

He found the DB's didn't pair brilliantly given the sound he was after and thought the SL's still sounded a bit too 'neo'. He left with the TKS (in a very funky snakeskin finish).

I think your stage volume is an important consideration here. If you're in the PA and only using cabs for monitoring and partial foh sound then the DB410 is overkill. Conversely the TKS cabs are going to run out of steam at very high volume because they are relatively small, lightweight, boxes and the drivers have a lower rating.

Going modular with a couple of smaller lighter cabs will do wonders to preserve your back in the longer run though and give you options for small gig/rehearsal situations too.

[JTUK]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1476104144' post='3151275']
Could be that I'm too old but I wouldn't want to haul any of the three cab combinations up 3 flights of stairs.

Both the DB212 and the DB410 are fairly 'serious' lifts and lugging a DB112 in each hand is going to get you a set of gorilla arms pretty quickly

Not too bad with the DB112 if you make two trips (which I'm guessing you'd need to anyway to carry bass, amp cables etc).

The new Aggie SL410 is a great cab and fairly easy to shift around, although any 410 is going to be a bit bulky in a tight stairwell.

Unfortunately it's over £1,250 so quite an expensive option vs a DB410.

We had a customer recently who tested a Streamliner into SL112's, DB112's and a pair of TKS112's.

He found the DB's didn't pair brilliantly given the sound he was after and thought the SL's still sounded a bit too 'neo'. He left with the TKS (in a very funky snakeskin finish).

[b]I think your stage volume is an important consideration here. If you're in the PA and only using cabs for monitoring and partial foh sound then the DB410 is overkill. Conversely the TKS cabs are going to run out of steam at very high volume because they are relatively small, lightweight, boxes and the drivers have a lower rating.[/b]

Going modular with a couple of smaller lighter cabs will do wonders to preserve your back in the longer run though and give you options for small gig/rehearsal situations too.
[/quote]

I was thinking this as well.... BUT I haven't been able to run out of room yet and I've run the Demeter 800 at around 2 o'clock on the dial, (not sure what that means in terms of output) but that is getting pretty loud.
Tbh, I don't think the 2 cabs have that much more to go but I'm not up for finding out either, tbh.. I have to wear plugs at that volume and with the band that I've done that with, I don't think we've given enough thought on the sound anyway. But it is not my gig, I just go with it.

However, the cabs are loud enough, IMO, I think a TH500 is a good match as I ran one with the TKS cabs, but the real game changer, IMO, is that these cabs just sound very nice and strong in the mids but without that NEO presense/hump-call it what you will, which I'm not so much a fan of. In that sense, the are full down below and have a strong mid presense. They aren't as full as say, Ag GS112's but they don't lose definition across the strings, where I found the GS cabs got a little lost.-for me.
In that sense, I feel a DB112 and TKS S112 would be in the same sort of tone area...

Call me a fan if you like... but these are little tone monsters, IMO...and seem to be sympathetic to quite a few amps. (TH, Demeter and Thunderfunk, IME)

[gillento]

What TKS are these you are talking about?
S112?
1126?

You got me curious...... long time db212 user.

[JTUK]

To me, the DB212 can is tough to beat..very tough, but I run 2 S112's as a lightweight rig. I power them with a Demeter, as opposed to the DB750 with the DB212 and I get quite close.
I make allowances for the lighter rig but if I didn't have the A rig, I might not have quite as strong opinion as wouldn't have that reference to hand.

I did try a 1126 in a test but had no where near the time on them...and I do like the Mid aspect of the S112 with a horn. I always run them paired and wanted them as a light compact option.
Tbh, I didn't need to consider the 1126.

[Jazzjames]

I've played all of these cabs (not with a streamliner, sorry) and I went with 2xDB112s. Easy to move around as they are easy to move when you do one at a time, whereas the other cabs are big, heavy and bulky. Fine if you've always got friends about to help...

I really like the sound of my DB112s, I've grown very attached to them. I think you should just try and demo all these cabs out with your setup, and then you'll know for sure.

[acroxixo]

I have a STM 900.
I tried the DB 410 and the 212.
For me the 212 is fantastic, but it's big and heavy.
My rig is a STM 900 and a Schroeder 1512L (4ohm - 19kg). It's a light weight rig with lots of power.

Off topic - Do you use the stock valves on the STM 900, or did you change it?

[Marsik]

Hi guys!

Have you tried to pair the EBS TD650 with any of these cabs?

[Muzz]

I'd say it all depends on how much you want out of the cabs - if you want to go very loud (which the Streamliner will do), then 2x112s or a 212 might not cover it (unless we're talking Barefaced). I'd suggest that the Streamliner could give two TKS 112 cabs a very hard time at high SPLs.

If you're through the PA, just monitoring, and/or not in a rock band with a monster drummer, then the options are more open.

I found the Streamliner a very very good head, but quite cab-sensitive, though you're on the right track with cabs which can curb that huge low end. Like Acroxixo, I found it worked very well with a Schroeder 1515L.

FWIW, I moved to the Magellan, which is like the Streamliner 2.0 in a lot of ways, with two advantages apropos your OP: it doesn't have that runaway bottom end, whcih makes it more cab-neutral, and it'll run 3 x 8ohm cabs if needed. I run 2 112s in the function band and 3 in the rock band with monster drummer, etc...

[countjodius]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1476202949' post='3152287']
I'd say it all depends on how much you want out of the cabs - if you want to go very loud (which the Streamliner will do), then 2x112s or a 212 might not cover it (unless we're talking Barefaced)....
[/quote]

That's the main motivation really in that my current single Barefaced Big Baby T struggles in some venues where there is a deadly cocktail of loud/close drummer and guitar amp coupled with on-stage subs and poor wedges. I love the Aguilar sound too, although have never paired the cabs with the Genz Streamliner yet.

It looks like the DB 212 is getting a lot of love, so the 2 x DB 112 stack might be great portable version of this. I am also now thinking tthat a DB 210 stack might compliment the Streamliner and tame the lows! Has anyone used this combination?

Hoping to visit a dealer next month where I'll potentially be able to trial all variations with the Streamliner. I'll be sure to report back!

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1476202949' post='3152287']
FWIW, I moved to the Magellan, which is like the Streamliner 2.0 in a lot of ways, with two advantages apropos your OP: it doesn't have that runaway bottom end, which makes it more cab-neutral, and it'll run 3 x 8ohm cabs if needed. I run 2 112s in the function band and 3 in the rock band with monster drummer, etc...
[/quote]

Thanks, now you've given me GAS for a new head also!

Edited October 12, 2016 by countjodius

[Muzz]

Don't get me started on the Magellan...it's a great head - the two channels and two contours give an awful lot of quick flexibility...anyway, I've a fuller review somewhere on here.

I ran my Streamliner with a couple of different Barefaced cabs, and they didn't reign in the bottom end, really - I was running the Bass control almost off a lot of the time, so 2 more 'conventional' 112s would change that...but if the BBT was struggling with the output, it'd have to be a pair of pretty, erm, robust 112s to get significantly more. Which is why I use three for the rock gigs. Huuuge plus point on small stages is that top 12 is a lot nearer my ears (we don't use monitors) - a few times I've taken all three but only plugged the top two in...

Unfortunately I've never had Aguilar cabs, so I can't be definitive about them, but I would say that one thing to be wary of is that that nice sound in the shop/house can be a very different thing at high SPL in a band context. One of the most effective cabs I ever had was the Schroeder, and that was almost unpleasantly boxy and barky solo'd, but sat in a rock mix very very well. I ordered off t'internet, so I was kinda lumbered (luckily), but if I'd have tried it in a shop I probably wouldn't have bought it. Which would have been a mistake.

[countjodius]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1476276893' post='3152927']

Unfortunately I've never had Aguilar cabs, so I can't be definitive about them, but I would say that one thing to be wary of is that that nice sound in the shop/house can be a very different thing at high SPL in a band context.
[/quote]

I should have mentioned that I've used the Aguilar DB 751 a lot with either a DB 410 or 810 when touring, and that is the dream tone. So essentially I'm looking for a similar ballpark sound, but using the Class D seeing as it will be me and not a backline crew lugging it around for home shows haha! Although the Streamliner is a bit of a unique beast, I love the tone with certain cab pairings and it has the right mix of valve tone, power and weight for me.

[quote name='acroxixo' timestamp='1476182946' post='3151989']

Off topic - Do you use the stock valves on the STM 900, or did you change it?
[/quote]

Sorry I missed this before. I have a JJ 5751 in the V1 position to tighten up the lows and give a bit more clean headroom before clipping.

[JTUK]

To replace Aguilar DB sound, I run a Demeter 800w head and 2 TKS112's. I would say the DB rig is more 'there' but soundwise I'm pretty close.

I've gone on about class D (and NEO) so wont repeat it, but this is my closest yet.

[countjodius]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1476368486' post='3153705']
To replace Aguilar DB sound, I run a Demeter 800w head and 2 TKS112's. I would say the DB rig is more 'there' but soundwise I'm pretty close.

I've gone on about class D (and NEO) so wont repeat it, but this is my closest yet.
[/quote]

Must admit that I don't know much about Demeter amps, or the different TKS 112 variants! Is it the snappily named VTBP-M-800D that you use? And which TKS models do you run with that?

Cheers

[JTUK]

Yes, I have that amp and I run it into a pr of S112's with a jazz.

The S112's are great cabs but I wouldn't say they are typically 15" like...
I'll use a peaky sound, with a horn, the pickups wide open so nothing is stilted or nipped sound-wise.
When I want to sound to bite, it is there and will be heard.

The DB sound is more of the same but the 212 is a tad fuller. I don't want anything dub like but the sound underpines a band.
It isn't a raspy sound that has to cut thru to be heard, it sits underneath... if the mix will allow that, or rather the players allow that.

Neither a 750 or Demeter will offer a myriad of different tones, and the controls are more subtle. You just want to hear the sound of the bass, which is what you get. I hardly ever EQ the amps from gig to gig and if I do feel the need, it is a small notch of one of the knobs....nothing more is ever required.

This saves a LOT of confusion.

[countjodius]

A belated thanks for your thoughts again JTUK. The Demeter set up sounds pretty no nonsense! I also generally favour amps that sound great with minimal tweaking, but my fondness of the Streamliner contradicts that!

Going back to my first post, I'd be interested to hear from users of the 2 x DB 210 set up. I a/b'd the Big Baby with an Ampeg 410 HE at a venue yesterday, and am now thinking that the quicker response of 10"s might suit my current band better. I also figure it would be a marginally more mobile config than the one big 410 mutha!

[stingrayPete1977]

I wonder if the Genz Über cabs would have been more popular if stupid fender hadn't ruined everything? I'd be looking to test drive a pair of genz 1x12 cabs to match the head, I like matching stuff and I couldn't gig one of those Barefaced mountains with different grilles, badges on the side and all different sizes with the head overhanging!

[machinehead]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477693369' post='3163952']
I wonder if the Genz Über cabs would have been more popular if stupid fender hadn't ruined everything? I'd be looking to test drive a pair of genz 1x12 cabs to match the head, I like matching stuff and I couldn't gig one of those Barefaced[u][b] mountains with different grilles, badges on the side and all different sizes with the head overhanging![/b][/u]
[/quote]..

I genuinely don't understand this. You can match cabs and use an amp that's narrrower than the cab. Puzzled.

Frank.

[gillento]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1476110441' post='3151386']
To me, the DB212 can is tough to beat..very tough, but I run 2 S112's as a lightweight rig. I power them with a Demeter, as opposed to the DB750 with the DB212 and I get quite close.
I make allowances for the lighter rig but if I didn't have the A rig, I might not have quite as strong opinion as wouldn't have that reference to hand.

I did try a 1126 in a test but had no where near the time on them...and I do like the Mid aspect of the S112 with a horn. I always run them paired and wanted them as a light compact option.
Tbh, I didn't need to consider the 1126.
[/quote]

So a TKS S212 does sound like a close option to the mighty db212?

.... just making sure I got this right

Edited October 29, 2016 by gillento

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1477698161' post='3163975']
..

I genuinely don't understand this. You can match cabs and use an amp that's narrrower than the cab. Puzzled.

Frank.
[/quote]

Yes, matching cabs and a narrower head on top (or even no head) does not look like an absolute mess on stage as if I've had to borrow bits and pieces off three people to do the gig!