Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre/Pre X Thunderbolt Audio Interface Advice Please!

[thebrig]

Ok, a couple of days ago I introduced myself as a total newbie to recording, and judging by the advice I’ve been given and from reading other threads, it looks like I have a decent enough computer to meet most of my needs, but since reading the threads on interfaces, I now realise that I could do with a better interface than what I’m currently using, and I think it’s looks like its best to go down the [b]Thunderbolt[/b] route.

Having done a fair bit of research, I’ve settled on getting something from the [b]Focusrite Claret[/b] range, and because I will want to record my band from time to time, I want at least eight inputs so that I can record the band in a live situation by micing everything up, and recording them all simultaneously.

The [b]Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre[/b] and the [b]Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre X[/b] both have eight inputs, but if I wanted to record more than eight tracks simultaneously, what would be the best option, and what advantages does the [b]Pre X[/b] have over the [b]Pre[/b]?

Sorry if these are all daft questions, but I really don’t understand how they work, and what things like [b]ADAT[/b] and [b]World Clock[/b] mean or do at the moment, but I think I will be able get my head around them once I start going into shops and seeing them in the flesh, and talking about them to hopefully knowledgeable staff.

I know it’s quite a big outlay for someone new to recording, but I would rather spend the money now on the best I can afford, rather than pay less on something I will probably want to replace in a few month’s time.

All advice is very welcome.

Thanks.

[Dad3353]

They are both of an almost identical spec, concerning sound quality and features; the PreX is rather cased to be racked into a studio and never moved around, and so has the connectors doubled up. This would allow having both jacks and Xlr's connected, and the choice of which to use done through software. The Pre version has combi connectors; one would plug in a jack, or an Xlr, but not both at the same time. For your use, I'd suggest that the PreX features are not necessary.
If 8 channels are not enough, either (or any...) of this range can be interconnected to expand the total inputs. It's possible, for instance, to add a Pre4, which would give a total of 12, or a second Pre8, to get 16 channels.The protocol that enables this is ASAT; it's just a way of getting stuff to work together, like MIDI, or USB. ASAT equipment 'talks' to other ASAT equipment, that's all.
A clock is used for synchronising interconnected gear, much like an orchestral conductor. A world clock gives a common timing signal to all, so that the signals stay coherent. It's not a big deal with only an interface and a Mac, but once one gets lots of outboard accessories, such as reverbs, or other recording devices, it's required that one or other of the machines takes control of timing. In your set-up, I'd say it's of no importance; it's perhaps nice to know, however, that it's there if ever it becomes necessary.
How does all this stuff work..? Magic, my lad; magic.
I'd just add the warning that, for recording, live, a whole group, having all of those inputs available is only one of the aspects. Trying to keep each channel clear of the other instruments becomes important, as is microphone choice and placing. It's good to have excellent equipment from a technical point of view, but it's only going to be as good as the weakest link; any more is 'overkill', and won't give a better result. Not to say that your choice is not good (it is..!), but it can't give any more than the quality of signal going in. It's quite a challenge micing up this way, so don't expect to get Abbey Road results, despite the quality of your gear. You're off to a roaring start, though, I'll grant you that..!

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Before you go hogwild buying an expensive multi channel interface, it is worth IMHO looking at the full signal chain of the equipment you already own, and make an honest assessment of whether you are genuinely being limited by the equipment.

You already own a Zoom R16 - so how many recordings of your band have you made with it using all 8 channels?
what mics did you use?
how much time did you spend on mic positioning and gain adjustment before starting to record?
and what were the problems with the end results?

The preamps and AD conversion in the R16 are not on the same level as you would find in a pro studio, but problems with room acoustics, bad mic placement, poor mics or improper gain staging are much more likely to hold you back, and won't magically disappear buy buying a more expensive interface.

At the point where you can positively identify that something in your signal chain is a problem, and why it is a problem is the point when it makes sense to make an informed decision to upgrade.

Just to illustrate the point, go listen to Bruce Springsteen's album Nebraska which is notable for being recorded on cassette 4 track portastudio in his spare room with a couple of SM57s - it really illustrates what can be achieved with very basic equipment.

[thebrig]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1476021939' post='3150479']
They are both of an almost identical spec, concerning sound quality and features; the PreX is rather cased to be racked into a studio and never moved around, and so has the connectors doubled up. This would allow having both jacks and Xlr's connected, and the choice of which to use done through software. The Pre version has combi connectors; one would plug in a jack, or an Xlr, but not both at the same time. For your use, I'd suggest that the PreX features are not necessary.
If 8 channels are not enough, either (or any...) of this range can be interconnected to expand the total inputs. It's possible, for instance, to add a Pre4, which would give a total of 12, or a second Pre8, to get 16 channels.The protocol that enables this is ASAT; it's just a way of getting stuff to work together, like MIDI, or USB. ASAT equipment 'talks' to other ASAT equipment, that's all.
A clock is used for synchronising interconnected gear, much like an orchestral conductor. A world clock gives a common timing signal to all, so that the signals stay coherent. It's not a big deal with only an interface and a Mac, but once one gets lots of outboard accessories, such as reverbs, or other recording devices, it's required that one or other of the machines takes control of timing. In your set-up, I'd say it's of no importance; it's perhaps nice to know, however, that it's there if ever it becomes necessary.
How does all this stuff work..? Magic, my lad; magic.
I'd just add the warning that, for recording, live, a whole group, having all of those inputs available is only one of the aspects. Trying to keep each channel clear of the other instruments becomes important, as is microphone choice and placing. It's good to have excellent equipment from a technical point of view, but it's only going to be as good as the weakest link; any more is 'overkill', and won't give a better result. Not to say that your choice is not good (it is..!), but it can't give any more than the quality of signal going in. It's quite a challenge micing up this way, so don't expect to get Abbey Road results, despite the quality of your gear. You're off to a roaring start, though, I'll grant you that..!
[/quote]Thanks for clearing a few things up Dad, just knowing these little things makes it a lot easier when I'm reading through the spec and watching the videos on the Focusrite website.

[thebrig]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1476023741' post='3150497']
Before you go hogwild buying an expensive multi channel interface, it is worth IMHO looking at the full signal chain of the equipment you already own, and make an honest assessment of whether you are genuinely being limited by the equipment.

You already own a Zoom R16 - so how many recordings of your band have you made with it using all 8 channels?
what mics did you use?
how much time did you spend on mic positioning and gain adjustment before starting to record?
and what were the problems with the end results?

The preamps and AD conversion in the R16 are not on the same level as you would find in a pro studio, but problems with room acoustics, bad mic placement, poor mics or improper gain staging are much more likely to hold you back, and won't magically disappear buy buying a more expensive interface.

At the point where you can positively identify that something in your signal chain is a problem, and why it is a problem is the point when it makes sense to make an informed decision to upgrade.

Just to illustrate the point, go listen to Bruce Springsteen's album Nebraska which is notable for being recorded on cassette 4 track portastudio in his spare room with a couple of SM57s - it really illustrates what can be achieved with very basic equipment.
[/quote]Thanks for the tips and advice Subsonic, you are right in saying I already have the equipment to do a job, and I get the point you make about setting everything up properly, I've only tried recording the band a couple of times, really without a clue about what I'm doing, but I did read up a bit on the subject and watched videos about how to record a band, but there is only so much you can do when you are doing it at a rehearsal or a gig, you don't have much time to get things right, its hard to isolate the instruments so there is going to be a lot of bleed, lack of space prevents you from proper placement of the mics, so it really is a case of "just do it, and see what it comes out like" which isn't ideal to say the least, but like I said, I'm a complete beginner who can only record something by seeking advice from videos etc.

The guitarist from our band came round last week, and I downloaded the drum tracks and vocal tracks to a couple of songs that we wanted to try, I loaded them into Logic and we recorded our parts through the Zoom R16 into Logic, obviously, I'm just fumbling around at the moment, but we didn't notice any problems with latency, but I can't help thinking that if I tried recording eight tracks at once we might run into problems, the recorded tracks sounded good to us, but would they sound even better if we had used a Focusrite Thunderbolt interface?

[SubsonicSimpleton]

If the tracks you are recording with the zoom sound good, then they are good. Enjoy the process of recording and spend time experimenting with the stuff you have and figuring out what it is capable of - recording equipment can get very expensive very quickly, so before deciding to upgrade your audio chain, you really need to be sure about what is going to bring the best improvement.

If you are concerned about recording 8 tracks at once, what circumstances are you going to do this in as an overdub where latency might be an issue? Go do it, and see whether it really is a problem - if there isn't a problem then great, if there is a problem, you need to ask how often you will need to record like that and what your options are (for something like full drumkit overdubs it may be economical to rent some studio time and take advantage of their mics and acoustic treatment and pro level kit if you are not going to be doing it on a regular basis) - do you need more kit, or can you change your approach to making the recording so the problem disappears.

[thebrig]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1476054967' post='3150941']
If the tracks you are recording with the zoom sound good, then they are good. Enjoy the process of recording and spend time experimenting with the stuff you have and figuring out what it is capable of - recording equipment can get very expensive very quickly, so before deciding to upgrade your audio chain, you really need to be sure about what is going to bring the best improvement.

If you are concerned about recording 8 tracks at once, what circumstances are you going to do this in as an overdub where latency might be an issue? Go do it, and see whether it really is a problem - if there isn't a problem then great, if there is a problem, you need to ask how often you will need to record like that and what your options are (for something like full drumkit overdubs it may be economical to rent some studio time and take advantage of their mics and acoustic treatment and pro level kit if you are not going to be doing it on a regular basis) - do you need more kit, or can you change your approach to making the recording so the problem disappears.
[/quote]Thanks for the advice, I will give it some serious thought, after all, its very early days in my recording hobby.

[Sibob]

Hi bud,

I'm here with my 'Focusrite Employee' hat on, so feel free to ask any further questions you need.
Thanks Dad for the advice above, but there are some things I feel I want to clear up/clarify

So the basic differences between the 8Pre and the 8PreX are as follows:

- 8Pre has 8 channels of ADAT, 8PreX has 16 channels of ADAT
- 8Pre has Wordclock Out, 8PreX has both In & Out
- Whilst every channel on the 8Pre has 48v (Phantom Power) available, they are in two blocks of four. So 48v to channels 1-4, and 5-8. The 8PreX has dedicated 48v per channel, this is helpful if you're using a real mix of mics, for example if in two adjacent channels you have a mic that needs 48v, and one that alsolutely can't receive it (as it will damage it).
- It's not possible to connect a 2Pre or 4Pre as a channel extension as Dad mentions above, due to those interfaces not having an ADAT Out port, only ADAT In. You can of course use another 8Pre (as it has both ADAT In & Out) as an channel extension, however most people will simply use a dedicated channel strip such as our Clarett Octopre, connected to your 8Pre or 8PreX over ADAT. With the 8PreX, you could even connect two Clarett Octopres (because of the Xs 16 channels of ADAT) for a total of 24 analogue channels (this is also where the Wordclock comes into play)
- Each channel on the 8PreX also has dedicated phase reverse and low pass filter features
- Also worth mentioning that Word Clock is simply another option to clock two devices together, if using an interface with an external channel extension device, 99% of situations allow for the user to simply clock over ADAT, meaning no extra cables. Some more in-depth setups might call for Wordclock to be added to the equation if there are 3 or more devices being used.

So, I'm certainly not suggesting all the above is correct and necessary for you, most of it isn't, but wanted to clarify some things as I mention .
In my opinion, if you want to really set yourself up with a great and expandable setup, I would plump for the 8Pre to get started. Then if you genuinely feel you need more channels, simply get a channel strip such as the Octopre to add another 8 channels.

Hope the above helps clarify some stuff, I just finished the JoCee album tracking my Precision straight into a 2Pre, and it sounds fantastic to my ears, a step up from my previous Saffire unit.

Si // Focusrite Media Relations

Oh also, as a P.S. today we have released our Focusrite Control iOS app. Meaning you can now control some aspects of the Clarett range (and Red and Scarlett range) using your iPhone/iPad

[Dad3353]

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[thebrig]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1476805968' post='3157431']
Hi bud,

I'm here with my 'Focusrite Employee' hat on, so feel free to ask any further questions you need.
Thanks Dad for the advice above, but there are some things I feel I want to clear up/clarify

So the basic differences between the 8Pre and the 8PreX are as follows:

- 8Pre has 8 channels of ADAT, 8PreX has 16 channels of ADAT
- 8Pre has Wordclock Out, 8PreX has both In & Out
- Whilst every channel on the 8Pre has 48v (Phantom Power) available, they are in two blocks of four. So 48v to channels 1-4, and 5-8. The 8PreX has dedicated 48v per channel, this is helpful if you're using a real mix of mics, for example if in two adjacent channels you have a mic that needs 48v, and one that alsolutely can't receive it (as it will damage it).
- It's not possible to connect a 2Pre or 4Pre as a channel extension as Dad mentions above, due to those interfaces not having an ADAT Out port, only ADAT In. You can of course use another 8Pre (as it has both ADAT In & Out) as an channel extension, however most people will simply use a dedicated channel strip such as our Clarett Octopre, connected to your 8Pre or 8PreX over ADAT. With the 8PreX, you could even connect two Clarett Octopres (because of the Xs 16 channels of ADAT) for a total of 24 analogue channels (this is also where the Wordclock comes into play)
- Each channel on the 8PreX also has dedicated phase reverse and low pass filter features
- Also worth mentioning that Word Clock is simply another option to clock two devices together, if using an interface with an external channel extension device, 99% of situations allow for the user to simply clock over ADAT, meaning no extra cables. Some more in-depth setups might call for Wordclock to be added to the equation if there are 3 or more devices being used.

So, I'm certainly not suggesting all the above is correct and necessary for you, most of it isn't, but wanted to clarify some things as I mention .
In my opinion, if you want to really set yourself up with a great and expandable setup, I would plump for the 8Pre to get started. Then if you genuinely feel you need more channels, simply get a channel strip such as the Octopre to add another 8 channels.

Hope the above helps clarify some stuff, I just finished the JoCee album tracking my Precision straight into a 2Pre, and it sounds fantastic to my ears, a step up from my previous Saffire unit.

Si // Focusrite Media Relations

Oh also, as a P.S. today we have released our Focusrite Control iOS app. Meaning you can now control some aspects of the Clarett range (and Red and Scarlett range) using your iPhone/iPad
[/quote]Thanks for the info Si, its much appreciated, I've decided that it would be wise to be patient to see how things pan out, but I think I will be in this for the long haul, and once I'm sure I will be, I will start getting the gear I need, I will try and buy the best (within reason) that I can afford which is why I thought about the clarett range rather than the scarlett range.