Transcribing your own stuff - learning to read

[AdamWoodBass]

Hey

So recently I've been starting to try and transcribe my own parts. When I come up with a cool line or a nice lick I like to be able to revisit it. I've also been transcribing other people's stuff (just recently transcribed the new single from Vulfpeck "Dean Town"). I suck at reading music, as in I can "read" but I'm super slow in the kind of "teaching your nan how to use a smartphone" sort of category. I want to get better and more confident so I thought maybe transcribing my own lines would be a good way to get used to rhythm reading. It's rhythm I generally struggle with and has been a barrier for me when it comes to sight reading.

So do you guys transcribe your own stuff? What do you use, software or pen and paper? Have you found it helpful in terms of your reading skills?

Like I said this is a source of embarrassment for me as I've been playing for about 18 years and have a music degree under my belt (not worth the paper it's written on to be honest) but I've never become a confident reader. Many people have told me it's not that hard to learn but it's been a sticking point for me for a long time.

Thoughts...

[dmccombe7]

I do a combination of few things. Usually i will jot down a few basic musical notes and approx timing to remind me till i get home and then i will write it out properly at home. Sometimes i will record it on my zoom till i get home

[Dad3353]

Years (decades...) ago, I wrote it all out long-hand, into a ring-binder for use on my music stand (drum parts, mostly...). Nowadays I use Guitar Pro 6; I can play it back and check the timings, rhythms and stuff. It's only for my own comfort now, though, as I rarely play out.

[lowdown]

I am from the Quill, Ink and Gas light days as well.
These days I use iPad Air and Notion iOS for transcriptions. I can also do it on my travels.
I save it all in the cloud and revisit when needed.
Or print off, send as PDF etc.
http://www.presonus.com/products/Notion-for-iOS

[stingrayPete1977]

I use MuseScore, free to download and sounds like something you will enjoy, I was recommended it by someone on here years ago.

[ambient]

Sibelius, and sometimes pencil and paper.

[lowdown]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1476639898' post='3155880']
Sibelius, and sometimes pencil and paper.
[/quote]

Although I have to use Sibelius for work, I much prefer Notion since they introduced handwriting recognition.
It works an absolute treat. You can use fingers or stylus for input of notes and articulations.
I think it might have been you, Ambient, who was enquiring about this type of software last year sometime.
If I remember right, it was Staffpad and Surface pro though? I take it you didn't go down that route?
Notion is good for integrating between iPad iOS and the desktop version. Mac or PC.

[Kirky]

Noteflight is good and free, but pencil and manuscript paper is quicker and easier.

[paul_c2]

I have to admit, I'm a bit lazy here. I do it in tab, even though I can fluently read (and write) music, since it 1) indicates what position its played in, which makes a big difference to the sound sometimes and 2) saves time worrying about key signatures, accidentals etc etc. I do make sure I notate the rhythm properly too, sometimes it takes a little working out to convert the rhythm in my head/fingers into notation though. Also I am lazy in that I haven't downloaded/bought any music score yet, I draw lines on a plain sheet of paper. And...worse still....I can't find/haven't bought a ruler, so the lines are all wobbly! So it looks a mess, but its how I do it. My excuse is its "creative" rather than a neat presentation for others. If others were to read it, I'd do it much better.

I believe you can download free music staff paper off the internet somewhere and print it out, I should research that and print a few sheets out really.

[ambient]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1476642711' post='3155925']


Although I have to use Sibelius for work, I much prefer Notion since they introduced handwriting recognition.
It works an absolute treat. You can use fingers or stylus for input of notes and articulations.
I think it might have been you, Ambient, who was enquiring about this type of software last year sometime.
If I remember right, it was Staffpad and Surface pro though? I take it you didn't go down that route?
Notion is good for integrating between iPad iOS and the desktop version. Mac or PC.
[/quote]

A friend of mine was saying just the other day how good notion is.

I use Sibelius because I got it free, and had to use it for my degree.

[paul_c2]

Also worth mentioning, I believe (sight) reading music to play on bass guitar is a bit of a separate topic. I can never remember the acronym for the lines but the spaces are "All Cows Eat Grass". I started a thread about it because I wanted to improve too, I put a more complex example but the general guidelines and hints are universal, so would apply to simpler stuff.

[ras52]

Pen and paper is always great for getting stuff down quickly, and software is great for verifying you've got it right - especially useful for those pesky rhythms! So I'm firmly in the "both" camp. With a big +1 for Notion if you have an iPad - in fact the ability to use it on the move and at home was what what tipped me over into buying an iPad!

[ambient]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1476642711' post='3155925']
Although I have to use Sibelius for work, I much prefer Notion since they introduced handwriting recognition.
It works an absolute treat. You can use fingers or stylus for input of notes and articulations.
I think it might have been you, Ambient, who was enquiring about this type of software last year sometime.
If I remember right, it was Staffpad and Surface pro though? I take it you didn't go down that route?
Notion is good for integrating between iPad iOS and the desktop version. Mac or PC.
[/quote]

Yeah, it was me. Someone posted something on Facebook, but it wasn't available on Mac, can't remember what the software was now. I want a new iPad, so this will definitely be something I'll look at getting. Thanks !

[ambient]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1476643908' post='3155940']
Also worth mentioning, I believe (sight) reading music to play on bass guitar is a bit of a separate topic. I can never remember the acronym for the lines but the spaces are "All Cows Eat Grass". I started a thread about it because I wanted to improve too, I put a more complex example but the general guidelines and hints are universal, so would apply to simpler stuff.
[/quote]

Green buses drive fast always .

[AdamWoodBass]

This is all super useful and I'm definitely going to check out Notion. I've been battling with Sibelius and getting pretty frustrated with it but that's probably more a user interface thing than anything.

I guess the general consensus then is that transcribing stuff is a big help in learning to read?

[ambient]

[quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1476660595' post='3156152']
This is all super useful and I'm definitely going to check out Notion. I've been battling with Sibelius and getting pretty frustrated with it but that's probably more a user interface thing than anything.

I guess the general consensus then is that transcribing stuff is a big help in learning to read?
[/quote]

I've been battling with Sibelius for four years, it's not the most user friendly software.

[ras52]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1476655589' post='3156120']


Green buses drive fast always .
[/quote]

Haven't heard that one! For the treble clef, the classic is Every Good Boy Deserves Favour, and the bass clef version I learnt was the less-than-satisfactory Good Boys Deserve Favour Always.

[paul_c2]

[quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1476660595' post='3156152']


I guess the general consensus then is that transcribing stuff is a big help in learning to read?
[/quote]

Its going to be indirectly-related, but I can't really see how its going to be super useful. To learn to read, you want to practice lots. By transcribing, the process of writing out the music would be quite slow. I'm scratching my head why someone with a music degree would struggle with reading music. After all, the main value of standard notation is its a standard, independent of any instrument so the rhythm and pitches aspect should be a non-issue, its just putting the pitches onto the bass guitar which would be the main skill. I know its bass clef (I guess mainly you read treble clef before?) but the adaption isn't that onerous.

Did you approach learning bass in a semi-logical way, ie do you know scales, arpeggios, etc?

[AdamWoodBass]

Like I said the degree isn't really worth the paper it's written on as I was incredibly lazy and scraped through it. I'm currently going back and learning things that I should have learned a long time ago but didn't have the dedication at the time. I learned to play working with scales and arpeggios, I'm comfortable with being able to tell you where you can find all the notes of a g major across the full fingerboard and I don't struggle with harmony. The thing for me I guess is the anxiety of rhythm reading. I get that practice is a big part of this though and I have been trying to remember to pickup a real book and just play something out of it.

[lowdown]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1476690204' post='3156213']
and the bass clef version I learnt was the less-than-satisfactory Good Boys Deserve Favour Always.
[/quote]

And when I was at College it was, Greedy Boys Deserve F**k All.

[Burns-bass]

I think transcribing is actually very useful at understanding how to read. What it does is helps to imprint certain rhythmic patters on your brain, allowing you to relate them to phrases you already know. I learnt through understanding rhythm patters first, but many bassists don't.

If you've got the rhythm and the key signature correct it's less likely you'll make a mistake. As a result, I'd say if you have the time to do so, then it's worth it. I remember trying to transcribe 'Maybe it'll rub off' by Tower of Power once. Took an age, but helped me understand syncopation and how such a 'busy' form of playing can work. (My girlfriend at the time almost left me mind you).

The next level is then transcribing from other instruments. Jaco famously used to play horn parts rather than guitar parts, which gave him his interesting phrasing. I did this in the past, but don't have the time now.

And whatever you transcribe, make sure you share on here and get some feedback too - that's helpful.

[AdamWoodBass]

[quote name='Burns-bass' timestamp='1476700784' post='3156340']
I think transcribing is actually very useful at understanding how to read. What it does is helps to imprint certain rhythmic patters on your brain, allowing you to relate them to phrases you already know.
[/quote]

That's pretty much my thought process. I guess I'm just wanting to make sure I'm not investing a lot of time into the wrong things.

[paul_c2]

What level of music do you want to be able to read/sightread at? I am unsure if its really basic or really advanced stuff. I can help out with a bunch of music to sightread though.

[lowdown]

[quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1476704106' post='3156394']
That's pretty much my thought process. I guess I'm just wanting to make sure I'm not investing a lot of time into the wrong things.
[/quote]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Yes, I agree with Burns-bass as well.

[color=#222222]And the next level should be (for good ear practise and pitching), put the transcription straight down onto paper/iPad or whatever, without the use of an Instrument.[/color]
[color=#222222]Sing what you are transcribing, or listening to (ok, the voice is an Instrument, I know). Maybe you might not get the correct key centre (unless you have perfect pitch), but if you can get the intervals for the notes/chords down or close, [/color]it does wonders for developing your relative pitch (regarding ear training and busking).[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif] [/font][/size][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]

Edited October 17, 2016 by lowdown

[AdamWoodBass]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1476705831' post='3156424']
What level of music do you want to be able to read/sightread at? I am unsure if its really basic or really advanced stuff. I can help out with a bunch of music to sightread though.
[/quote]

I guess good enough so that I could go on a gig and not break into a cold sweat when I have a pad put in-front of me. I'm not looking to be able to read a John Patitucci line off the bat but would be nice to be able to not freak out when I have some Stevie Wonder put in front of me. Not saying that James Jamerson or Nathan Watts bass lines are simple but I guess that's the level or reading I'm looking to get to.