blue Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'm starting to think a little differently about the 4 hour bar gig, festival and fair market. Last night we opened for a national act. All I needed was my bass, and pedal board. Lighting and sound provided. We played for an hour and we're paid twice our 4 hour bar fee. Ok, whether you like it or not this is a business, at least it is for me. I think I'm devaluing myself in the bar band market and should start making plans to move up a bit. It's a hard business and I'm still up for the challenge. Comments, thoughts? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Good question Blue, direct and to the point. Would you get enough of the bigger paying gigs to make up for dropping the 'meat and potatoes' bar jobs? Also, I'm guessing here, the bigger gigs would involve more travel and time away from home. There will be costs involved with that, financial and time related. All depends on your personal situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Sadly its never up to us if we "Move up" or not. If the people in the industry believe we are good enough then it will happen, and not always to those that deserve it. Gladly it has never been a business for me. From 1967 when I first started playing it was about making music and writing songs. If we had been successful as a band that would have meant being signed to a record label and doing gigs in the big venues. Making music was what it was all about, making money was never on the agenda. If we had made money then that would have been a huge bonus. Now? I play cos I love it, we get paid for pub and club gigs and that is perfect. I am glad it has never become a business or just work for me, that would have taken the magic out of a lifetimes love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 For me it`s the audience/industry that determine this (originals bands here I`m talking about). If your audiences keep growing then you should move higher up the bill, which should generate more income, and hopefully more sales of your merch, if you`ve decided to go down that route. At some point you may then be able to get backing from the industry in some form or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 What one is willing to pay.... and no one says or could argue it is fair. I know some amazing musicians, IMO, and if I pick the right day when they are free I can get them for easy money. They aren't going to be able to pay the mortgage on this money tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 [quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1476644565' post='3155954'] Good question Blue, direct and to the point. Would you get enough of the bigger paying gigs to make up for dropping the 'meat and potatoes' bar jobs? Also, I'm guessing here, the bigger gigs would involve more travel and time away from home. There will be costs involved with that, financial and time related. All depends on your personal situation. [/quote] My home would be the road, something I've always wanted. I'm single and my kids are working adults, I could get up and leave tonight if the right opportunity presented itself. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476644782' post='3155959'] Sadly its never up to us if we "Move up" or not. If the people in the industry believe we are good enough then it will happen, and not always to those that deserve it. Gladly it has never been a business for me. From 1967 when I first started playing it was about making music and writing songs. If we had been successful as a band that would have meant being signed to a record label and doing gigs in the big venues. Making music was what it was all about, making money was never on the agenda. If we had made money then that would have been a huge bonus. Now? I play cos I love it, we get paid for pub and club gigs and that is perfect. I am glad it has never become a business or just work for me, that would have taken the magic out of a lifetimes love. [/quote] Gladly it's always been a business for me. It's the work and the love of music, making music,performing for an audience that makes it for me. Many BCers are under the misconception that those of us that treat this as a business do not like music and that it's all work and we don't have fun. There is nothing more fun than playing music even when it's a business. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1476643613' post='3155937'] I'm starting to think a little differently about the 4 hour bar gig, festival and fair market. Last night we opened for a national act. All I needed was my bass, and pedal board. Lighting and sound provided. We played for an hour and we're paid twice our 4 hour bar fee. Ok, whether you like it or not this is a business, at least it is for me. I think I'm devaluing myself in the bar band market and should start making plans to move up a bit. It's a hard business and I'm still up for the challenge. Comments, thoughts? Blue [/quote] The thing is how many of the better paying bigger gigs will you play in a year and how will that stack up against your constant schedule of bar gigs that provide a regular income?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1476643613' post='3155937'] I'm starting to think a little differently about the 4 hour bar gig, festival and fair market. Last night we opened for a national act. All I needed was my bass, and pedal board. Lighting and sound provided. We played for an hour and we're paid twice our 4 hour bar fee. Ok, whether you like it or not this is a business, at least it is for me. I think I'm devaluing myself in the bar band market and should start making plans to move up a bit. It's a hard business and I'm still up for the challenge. Comments, thoughts? Blue [/quote] Travelling is hard. It's a young mans game. Living out of a suitcase in a different 'clone' hotel every night. The worst thing is waking up in the morning and having no one around you but the people you work with to socialise with. It's not for everyone. I guess it depends on how well your contract is written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1476653427' post='3156094'] The thing is how many of the better paying bigger gigs will you play in a year and how will that stack up against your constant schedule of bar gigs that provide a regular income?? [/quote] Hi Pete, Bar gigs is a $125.00 for 4 hours proposition. It's all I have now. My point is I feel I'm devalued at that level and when the right opportunity presents itself I want out and want to move on. I know a few people that are headlining and I'm sure I would be way a head financially even with half the gigs I do now. Blue Edited October 16, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1476654413' post='3156107'] Travelling is hard. It's a young mans game. Living out of a suitcase in a different 'clone' hotel every night. The worst thing is waking up in the morning and having no one around you but the people you work with to socialise with. It's not for everyone. [/quote] Sounds like paradise to me. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I used to love it. Problem is, I 'enjoyed' a drink too, perhaps a little too much. Mix big-gig adrenaline with the reality that when you leave you're just another normal person out there and it's easier to sit talking rubbish to people until the bar closes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) So good I said it twice! Edited October 16, 2016 by Burns-bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 [quote name='Burns-bass' timestamp='1476656868' post='3156135'] I used to love it. Problem is, I 'enjoyed' a drink too, perhaps a little too much. Mix big-gig adrenaline with the reality that when you leave you're just another normal person out there and it's easier to sit talking rubbish to people until the bar closes. [/quote] Yes. Three hours of adrenaline followed by 21 hours of 'whatever'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 [quote name='Burns-bass' timestamp='1476656868' post='3156135'] I used to love it. Problem is, I 'enjoyed' a drink too, perhaps a little too much. Mix big-gig adrenaline with the reality that when you leave you're just another normal person out there and it's easier to sit talking rubbish to people until the bar closes. [/quote] Drinking or any substance would take the fun out if it for me. I like being in control, if your buzzed up your no longer in control. Easy for me, I haven't had a drink in over 40 years, same with any kind of substance. Again, for me it's a business. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1476651947' post='3156072'] My home would be the road, something I've always wanted. I'm single and my kids are working adults, I could get up and leave tonight if the right opportunity presented itself. Blue [/quote] I would go, in your situation In a heartbeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damonjames Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1476654942' post='3156110'] Hi Pete, Bar gigs is a $125.00 for 4 hours proposition. It's all I have now. My point is I feel I'm devalued at that level and when the right opportunity presents itself I want out and want to move on. I know a few people that are headlining and I'm sure I would be way a head financially even with half the gigs I do now. Blue [/quote] I know a musician who isaid in 2 bands that gig at large festivals (are signed and have albums released) and has to juggle his diary between these two, a VERY busy function band, does a jam night once a month and picks up dep work when he can. He also teaches lessons The function band comes closest to covering his day to day running costs, my point is, if you are a working group musician you need to take what's on offer regardless of whether you tHinksey it's below your worth as you don't know where the next gig will come.from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Lots of expressions come to mind, such as 'The grass is always greener...' and 'A bird in the hand...'. Although there's always 'Don't hide your light under a bushel' too, I suppose. Why this sudden evangelistic ambition, though..? Has there been a shock to the system, or just a late spell of jealousy..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1476663712' post='3156161'] Drinking or any substance would take the fun out if it for me. I like being in control, if your buzzed up your no longer in control. [/quote] I'm talking about post-gig, not during. Also, we were an originals band playing no more than an hour to an hour and a half per night, it's different because music wasn't treated as a commodity in the same way as it is when you're in a covers band. Playing your own music to a large group of people (sometimes big gigs, often just a few hundred) is a huge adrenaline rush. If I were out doing Mustang Sally on the wedding circuit week in and out (which I know a few people do, they love it and they earn a decent amount - so please don't think I'm. Ring negative of judgemental) perhaps I'd feel differently, but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Blue, it sounds like touring would suit you perfectly. Why not pursue it? Have a think about where the opportunities are and make some approaches, talk to people you know in that part of the industry, find out how touring bass players got to be where they are and see if that route is available to you. You only live once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 you have no ties, if you can find a band that will allow you to do it then go for it. as mentioned before, touring is a young mans game, but apart from your age you are in the same situation an average young person is, so if you can physically handle it you should be ok. i would however make sure you have routes back to the bar band route, the bigger the act, the bigger the money of course, but the more risk of getting cut from said act. as you have said, there isn't much in milwaukee so you want to make sure you don't burn all of your bridges on the way up and have no safety net if you should have to fall back down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Most pro musicians I know have a fall-back "bread and butter" band for when the tour ends, or even several. Plus teaching, guitar setups, etc. I'd go for it if I were you, but depending how much you earn and how frequently you play, you may well need another source of income Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1476694396' post='3156267'] Most pro musicians I know have a fall-back "bread and butter" band for when the tour ends, or even several. Plus teaching, guitar setups, etc. I'd go for it if I were you, but depending how much you earn and how frequently you play, you may well need another source of income [/quote] We used to call this 'portfolio employment', and you're right - you need something else. My brother used to work with Portishead and Roni Size bass legend and his day job was a film editor. It's fair to say he has a pretty cool life! Teaching is the usual fall back, but the professionals I know who do this don't view teaching as a fall back, but as something equally important. We'r also comparing the situation in the UK with the USA which is unfair. Friends I've had who lived Stateside have told me that you can make a good living playing gigs because the scene there is more established. It's hard though, a 4 hour shift is normal and the quality of the bar bands there is very, very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 If you can find a band with a schedule that alows you to make a living with those big paying gigs go for it in a blink of an eye. My band plays pubs mainly but also some outdoor gigs in the summer. Pubs pay about 75-100€ per musician and we have to cart instruments, backline and PA. In outdoor gigs we get paid twice or three times that amount and we have a stage, backsatge, PA, monitors and techs at our disposal, we also get to play to a larger crowd. Its undeniable that the big gigs are way more atractive but we don't get enough of them during the year to stop playing in bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Could you use your credibility as a band supporting national acts as a way of upping your bar fee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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