Constructive criticism request, slap

[uk_lefty]

Am sure there's loads of these but here goes... I'm trying very hard to improve on my funk and this includes slap. There is a song we dropped from our set because I wasn't happy with the slap part, found it too difficult to sound good while slapping. With my band we play a 90s dance track but with a bit of an edge to it. Here's one of our early rehearsal efforts on soundcloud (link copied below). I would welcome any feedback on the slap sections of the song. It's not a technique I claim to be anywhere near proficient at and though I think some of this is passable I'd like some constructive feedback on note choice and timing, or anything else! I do find note choice hard beyond octaves and dead notes to be honest... All views welcome.

https://m.soundcloud.com/white-collar-fraud/step-it-up-best-ver

[FuNkShUi]

First thing i'd say is it is quite hard to get a tone that will cut through the band mix when playing slap.
A good slap tone is always subjective, but i'd say most people will do variations of a similar theme - the "smiley face EQ" . Either boost bass and treble, or just drop your mids. I suppose it depends what onboard EQing options you have. Problem with this, to cut through the same way you may have to increase your overall volume slightly (because of the loss of mids).
What makes slap good, IMO anyway, is making it accurate. Its relatively easy to play a slap line, but playing your notes on beat, and finishing them (note letting open notes ring) is what neatens them up, and makes them sound crisp.
Nothing wrong with keeping it as simple octaves if that's where you're at technically, some of the best disco lines are octaves, but i would personally work on your timing. I think that's where you're likely to see the biggest "gain". Keep it simple, but keep it tight

[JTUK]

Well, the drums are too racy for my tastes and give everything a hurried feel. That never helps. Sort that out and immediately it gives everything else a better chance
I don't think you want to be too busy with that drum part, so I'd be trying to get it to hold back.
If you are going to play a slap part, it needs to be funky.... but for me, a double thumb part works better if everything else stays the same. ...as in using it as you would a plectrum.

A general lesson here would be, to make the song work with what it needs rather than what you feel you want to play.
Try slap...it isn't working, try something else. That is not only your goal, it should be everyone elses to.

But back to slap... that is too full a sound... your pulls want to be spikier.
IMO, slap sounds pretty awful with an 80's approach unless you have it Right down.
Most guys double thumb those parts now... with much better effect.

[uk_lefty]

Thanks guys, have always struggled with double-thumb but never gave it much time to get it right, will get back to that.
My band want me to play slap, I'd like to be able to, but only want to do it where it adds something.

In that recorded jam there's an octave run that I think works, then a breakdown where everything goes a bit quiet and I play a slap fill, I think that's enough for the song and live I have played it almost entirely finger style.

Thank you for the feedback, always good to have another view on things

[JTUK]

The double thumb only has to be 16ths on the root... you wont need anything else. Get that right and solid and it cleans up the track and gives it edge.
Tell the band it is a cool new technique ..they wont know any different.

And also, isolate each instrument and see if it works. If it does, you add to a solid platform. If it doesn't you are building on sand.
Always try and play a bassline that sits great on its own... and get away from having to have a great mix in order for what you play, gel.

A good bass player always sounds good solo'd..even it you don't actually want to be solo'd.

If the bass and drums don't get it between them, the track is a no go so if you aim to play the part and sound good on your own you are 80% there already.
This is what we should practice, IMO.

[paul_c2]

Do you have a recording with the bass isolated?

[uk_lefty]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1476893099' post='3158211']
Do you have a recording with the bass isolated?
[/quote]

No its just a zoom mic in the middle of the room. That's also only about the second play through of the song we did together so we were all finding our way

[paul_c2]

Ok no worries I did suspect that was the case. The bass doesn't come out well on the recording but my laptop so I plugged in headphones, but still couldn't really make it out that well. But obviously its to do with the recording process here. I know you might be nervous about putting an isolated bass track on....but if you worked towards happiness to do that, it would be the same stuff to work on to be happy with playing the song. I know your band's done a slightly different arrangement (no keyboards, more guitar?) but I'm not sure you need to have slap bass in it - the original seems not to, after all?

[FuNkShUi]

I did think the same as Paul to be honest.
The way you've arranged that song, i don't know if it needs a slap line.
Seem like it's "slap for slaps sake"

[uk_lefty]

True. Was just trying it out to see if it worked or not. It's a technique I'd like to learn over time but not sure where to go with it in terms of note choice, etc. Agree it's not the right fit for the full length of this song in this recording

[paul_c2]

One way is to play it normal ie not slapped, and nail down the note choices. "Step it up" lends itself to a simple bass line. You know its simple. Other bass players in the audience know its simple. But 90% of the punters don't know/don't care that its easy to play, just like the sound of it.

If you really want to embellish it, then octaves are always going to be a good choice, because they're a safe choice. But if you're a bit more adventurous there's definitely room in "Step it up" to put some little extras in on the off-beat notes. The piece sits quite well with having 1/16ths in, so there's at least 10 places passing notes could be put in (assuming the main rhythm is 3 notes, and also appears on the 3rd beat in the bar). Obviously don't fill them all in, but some nice chromatic runs would go in alright? And since they're not on the beat, accenting with slap technique is going to jar a little....

[FuNkShUi]

One good video I've seen for working out basslines if you struggle to freely come up with concepts is shown here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX1UM9oH5ss

Must admit, i'm not on scotts bass academy or anyting like that. But everything i have seen of his i've enjoyed, and this video is a brilliant way of working out grooves.
It's a long watch, but if you want to find ways to write good grooves, i think it's brilliant.

[bassjim]

When the band is turned up the slap is harder to get over. My way round it is to play E and A string near the Front PU and kinda "push" my fingers through the D and G strings to get the same effect as a pull off. Or just get the pulls in but play "normal finger style" for the low notes.
When soloing with slap the whole band need to turn the dynamics right down and play as little as possible or its lost in the mix. You cant suddenly rearrange the EQ on the amp just for the slap part plus you might already have a good finger sound. There are pedals ect but there is still a lot of hit and miss with them. You need a lot of power and speakers to do it well when standing right next to a drummer that is playing loudly to avoid distorting and seeing as thats probably not available, its best to accept its not going to work in most situations.
Using just the back pick up can help it to cut through, though not always the best tone. Compromise is the key.
What sounds best at low volumes may not translate well at loud volumes.

Your choice of notes are YOUR choice of notes so maybe change the approach a little. There is a thing that your drummer could be interested in getting. Its called a "fat snare". Its a plasticy film that lays on top of the snare that helps turn the volume down which helps the overall band dynamics. You may even find with more attention from the drummer on your part, ie : he plays less and lays back a bit, might bring out the slap thing better. Depends on the maturity of the band to at least entertain it and see if its a good idea.
If the band wont back you up on it, then the slap thing is wasted.

Edited October 20, 2016 by bassjim