Valve amps vs Solid State

[dub]

I played through an old Eminar valve amp at one gig while on tour in Australia recently. The best sound I got out of any amp on the tour!

[JTUK]

If I had the gig for it... I might have gone all valve if someone else has to look after it and set it up...and for some gigs something like an Ampeg is all you need.

But for what I want now...and the gigs I have, the only thing I'd look out for over my Thunderfunk is a DB750 but then that will sit around for a lot of gigs where I just wouldn't want to lump it around and therefore £1000 s/h
is a lot of money to be a backup or limted use frontline amp. If I was touring, I'd go DB750/751 and an SWR SM900/1500 depending on who was paying, maybe.

I wouldn't be after a valvey grind now anyway and I switch off all simulation and run clean. Not even fussed about valve pre's either

[danhkr]

[quote name='umph' timestamp='1325677481' post='1485893']
if your solidstate amp goes wrong you have to bin it! much worse in my eyes
[/quote]

Not strictly true. If a solidstate amp is made to a half decent standard, it is perfectly repairable in the right hands.

In actual fact apart from the valves, there's very little difference in the components/build quality between the majority of decent modern solidstate amps and the majority of decent modern valve amps.

Edited June 7, 2012 by danhkr

[Mr. Foxen]

Don't know of anyone handwiring SS amps on turrets motivated mostly by pride in their work, so the difference shows in the upper end.

[danhkr]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1339095162' post='1683647']
Don't know of anyone handwiring SS amps on turrets motivated mostly by pride in their work, so the difference shows in the upper end.
[/quote]

Yes but how many are? When your average pcb-based valve head is anything from £1200 upwards, that's already above and beyond most people's upper end.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='danhkr' timestamp='1340292825' post='1702432']
Yes but how many are? When your average pcb-based valve head is anything from £1200 upwards, that's already above and beyond most people's upper end.
[/quote]

Handwired ones aren't necessarily any more money, none of mine were even half that. Just because people pay too much for not very well made things, doesn't invalidate the existence of the well made ones.

[danhkr]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1340305796' post='1702719']
Handwired ones aren't necessarily any more money, none of mine were even half that. Just because people pay too much for not very well made things, doesn't invalidate the existence of the well made ones.
[/quote]

Never said it did, just they are few and far between and not as 'commercially' accessible. Really I was talking about the more mainstream brands that most recognise as 'high-end' valve gear (eg Ampeg, Orange, Ashdown etc). The majority of what they produce isn't really made much better than their equivalent solid-state variants. Thats not to say one is better than the other or none of them are good amps, just that reliability and repair-ability are similar.

Its a myth that buying (for eg) a new Orange valve head is getting you an indestructible 'tank' like amp, just as it's equally a myth that buying a SS Ashdown means you'll need to bin it first time it goes wrong.

Edited June 22, 2012 by danhkr

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='danhkr' timestamp='1340368425' post='1703424']
Never said it did, just that they are few and far between and not as 'commercially' accessible.

My original point was that the majority of what most recognise as 'high-end' valve gear (eg Ampeg, Orange, Ashdown etc) aren't really made much better than their equivalent solid-state variants. Thats not to say one is better than the other or none of them are good amps, just that reliability and repair-ability are similar.

Its a myth that buying (for eg) a new Orange valve head is getting you an indestructible 'tank' like amp, just as it's equally a myth that buying a SS Ashdown means you'll need to bin it first time it goes wrong.
[/quote]

Those all aren't very well made amps. Again, just because they are overpriced and heavily marketed, doesn't make them valid examples. Mcdonalds sell a lot more burgers than anywhere else, doesn't mean they are hold up examples of restaurant eating.

[danhkr]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1340368662' post='1703426']
[b]Those all aren't very well made amps.[/b] Again, just because they are overpriced and heavily marketed, doesn't make them valid examples. Mcdonalds sell a lot more burgers than anywhere else, doesn't mean they are hold up examples of restaurant eating.
[/quote]

That's kinda my point

[Mr. Foxen]

They are low end examples that make them comparable to mass produced solid state amps, the quality level at the available is far higher for valve amps. So you are trying to compare poor quality valve amps to standard quality solid state amps. ~Work with equivalents, and you might have a valid comparison.

[danhkr]

Really it was a response to someone who said you'd have to bin a solid state amp when it goes wrong. That isn't true and I simply pointed out that the majority of decent (I didn't say handmade, boutique or top-end) valve amps are made similarly.

It seems alot of people think that by spending £1500 on an amp they're getting some kind of indistructable bomb-proof piece of kit. My point was, thats not always the case.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='danhkr' timestamp='1340369628' post='1703445']
Really it was a response to someone who said you'd have to bin a solid state amp when it goes wrong. That isn't true and I simply pointed out that the majority of decent (I didn't say handmade, boutique or top-end) valve amps are made similarly.

It seems alot of people think that by spending £1500 on an amp they're getting some kind of indistructable bomb-proof piece of kit. My point was, thats not always the case.
[/quote]

Aside from the Ashdown you mentioned, the others aren't decent, they are just overpriced. I've been in examples of them all and they are sub Peavey build quality. Cheap Ashdown SS stuff is easy to work on and they send you the parts easily, the Ashdown valve amp I had was handwired to boutique quality. Orange amps are hot glued together.

[razze06]

[quote name='danhkr' timestamp='1340369628' post='1703445']
...

It seems alot of people think that by spending £1500 on an amp they're getting some kind of indistructable bomb-proof piece of kit. My point was, thats not always the case.
[/quote]

You'll need to spend £100 on a Mark III or IV peavey 400 bass amp for that

Edited June 22, 2012 by razze06

[danhkr]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1340370197' post='1703459']
Aside from the Ashdown you mentioned, the others aren't decent, they are just overpriced. I've been in examples of them all and they are sub Peavey build quality. Cheap Ashdown SS stuff is easy to work on and they send you the parts easily, the Ashdown valve amp I had was handwired to boutique quality. Orange amps are hot glued together.
[/quote]

Fair enough, but they sound decent

It's this myth that 'because it's valve, it's top quality'. I think in a roundabout way, we are agreeing here.

Interesting you mention the Ashdown valve amp, what model was that?

Edited June 22, 2012 by danhkr

[Ant]

im solid state all the way! question is, who's making the high end SS amps? why cant i get a half rack SS power amp that gets as loud as my orange tiny terror?

[Mr. Foxen]

The Ashdown was a Peacemaker 100w Custom, designed by Dave Green of Matamp (at the time). I've had two, one had gold plated turrets. This is the slightly less nice one:

[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Incarante/Ashdown%20Peacemaker/P1010206.jpg[/IMG]

Fairly equivalent to a Green era Matamp, but less tidy wiring, I'd guess assembly went to bit more production line bods than it would have at Matamp.

Think the Promethean clones are half rack, and someone could knock you up a half rack valve pre I should think.

[Floyd Earl]

Will a tube pre - amp do the job? Does any one have suggestions of what I might look at to go with my Markbass amp?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Floyd Earl' timestamp='1342720017' post='1739999']
Will a tube pre - amp do the job? Does any one have suggestions of what I might look at to go with my Markbass amp?
[/quote]

Depends what the job is.

[Smythe]

I'm a solid state man myself, primarily, for cost reasons, and secondly, for the minimum amount of maintenance they need. I just use a VT Bass pedal to replicate the valve sound if needed.

I'm currently running a Carvin B2000 (partially valved - has a valved preamp section) for larger venues and Little Mark III for smaller venues or when I'm playing support slots/events/festivals etc. I gotta admit, the Carvin blew on me a while ago. A power thermister overloaded, blew and shorted out a whole load of other transisters and diodes around the vicinity. Carvin, being the great company they are, replaced this amp with no hassle whatsoever as it was still under warranty (the B2000 was still in its infancy). I noticed upon opening up the replacement, they've really beefed up the capacitors with the new design.

The Little Mark III is so easy to transport about and packs some serious warm low end for such a dainty thing. I actually prefer this over the Carvin B2000. Although it doesnt have anywhere near the same power, (I run a 4 ohm cab, Little Mark runs 500w at 4ohms- the Carvin a whopping 1200w at 4ohm!!), it has a character/tone i prefer.

Maybe one day I will take the leap from SS to all valve but until i come into some serious money, i wont be doing so, I also cant be bothered with all the annual replacing of power valves, getting them biased etc, So its Solid State for me for the time being!.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Smythe' timestamp='1343766392' post='1754995']
Maybe one day I will take the leap from SS to all valve but until i come into some serious money, i wont be doing so, I also cant be bothered with all the annual replacing of power valves, getting them biased
[/quote]

Doing something seriously wrong if you need to replace power valves annually.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343897411' post='1756869']


Doing something seriously wrong if you need to replace power valves anally.
[/quote]

I'm sure you mistyped?

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1343898127' post='1756879']
I'm sure you mistyped?
[/quote]



Thankfully, I don't have to do my KT88s anally. Thinking about it, it's been at least five years! Of course now I'm worried that one will pack up at tonights's gig.

[xgsjx]

You're now gonna spend the afternoon looking for a spare to take with you just in case!

Sorry, I'll shut up. Have a good gig tonight.

[Smythe]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343897411' post='1756869']
Doing something seriously wrong if you need to replace power valves annually.
[/quote]

Going on what I've read in magazines/forums, havent owned a valve amp, so I can't comment on it I suppose!

Edited August 2, 2012 by Smythe

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Smythe' timestamp='1343931472' post='1757570']
Going on what I've read in magazines/forums, havent owned a valve amp, so I can't comment on it I suppose!
[/quote]

Believing what you read on the internet and magazines would be the seriously wrong thing in this case then.