solo4652 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) I have the opportunity of joining a start-up covers function band. This is how the intended line-up is described; "One guitar, bass, drums, vocals, maybe keys as well. The guitarist would also have backing tracks to beef up the sound a little." I'm ringing the drummer tonight for a chat. The guitarist wanting backing tracks is ringing a few alarm bells for me. Why does the guitarist want backing tracks - to "beef up" what sounds, exactly? All songs, or just some? Would this be a temporary thing to get the band up and running, or a permanent part of the band? Would there still be backing tracks if a keys player is recruited? What does everybody think about this, please? Edited October 23, 2016 by solo4652 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkandrew Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I don't think it's that unusual these days - I recently came back from a holiday in South West France and nearly all the bands playing in the bars, cafes and in the street used backing tracks. I guess a lot of people are so used to over produced songs, with even home recordings containing as many tracks as a studio recording of 20 years ago, that a simple bass / guitar / drums setup sounds lightweight to them by comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'd have thought that using backing tracks would make on the fly changes to songs a bit tricky. I wouldn't enjoy a band that stuck rigidly to a rehearsed set list with no room to improvise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Oasis fetishist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Not for me... part of being a band is just doing it. I'd be wanting to see what it 'adds' tho.... and how the band could deliver it. If there is a reason for a second gtr part, get a second gtr in. I'd be interested to see how this conversation goes and what it achieves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Hate this sort of thing. It's just karaoke. Any decent guitarist doesn't need to thicken up his sound, just learn to play better. Anything on a backing track is totally unacceptable to me, so there!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1477222702' post='3160615'] Hate this sort of thing. It's just karaoke. Any decent guitarist doesn't need to thicken up his sound, just learn to play better. Anything on a backing track is totally unacceptable to me, so there!!!!! [/quote] Wow that's pretty militant. We use tracks for horns and strings. We have a great keys player but it always sounds more natural if he is freed up to concentrate on more piano, Rhodes, moog and synth stuff. If a drummer can work well with click then it's a great way to improve the overall size and depth of sound. Monitoring is really important if you are using tracks. We all use in ears for best results. It does take away some flexibility but, if used only when beneficial to the song, is a great tool to have. That said, if it was just to cover a shortfall in a guitarists ability to fill space, I'd be more inclined to ditch the guitarist. Why he needs to fill space is another question that should be asked. Unless you are doing big rock songs then you shouldn't need more fill from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) I've played with bands like this a few times. You just have to make sure the drummer has good monitoring, and can hear the click/tracks, and can play in time. Edited October 23, 2016 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) [quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1477212520' post='3160512'] What does everybody think about this, please? [/quote] I'd talk to the drummer before listening to any other advice. There are some very entrenched ideas about what playing live should and shouldn't be on this forum. Edited October 23, 2016 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 If your a 4/5 piece band play stuff that a 4/5 piece band can play without a backing track. Either adapt the songs to the 4/5 pice line up or play something else. (In my own 'ever so 'umble' opinion, of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I always think it's cheating, if you're supposed to be a live band that's what it should be, same with loopers, very clever, but no different from using a backing track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1477228333' post='3160689'] I always think it's cheating, if you're supposed to be a live band that's what it should be, same with loopers, very clever, but no different from using a backing track [/quote] Except with a looper you're playing it in real time, it plays it back, and you respond to it. Quite different to a backing track, where you can re-record something until it's absolutely perfect. If you make a mistake with your loop, then you're stuck with it. Edited October 23, 2016 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I once saw a single person use a looper to create a full band sound live on stage. All very clever, but dull as sh*t. Give me a real band any time. If you need to use a looper to get the effect VERY occasionally, then fine, but most people (i.e me) want to see a live band! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 It's all about context though. A band with bass, guitars, drums, keys and two vocals using track to add a little something on a big arrangement like a 70s disco tune is completely different to one man with an acoustic guitar using tracks for bass, drums, keys, horns, electric guitar etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 We don't use them but it wouldn't bother me so long as the core band sound is live. As a side note - we once auditioned an X-Factor vocalist who'd got fairly far in the competition. He simply could not sing in time - turned out he'd been singing 'live' for a few years but always to a complete instrumental backing track. He had no idea how to 'listen' to a live band and work out his timing. This was on really, really simple stuff with relatively sparse arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Maybe Bohemian rhapsody is on the setlist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1477231330' post='3160711'] It's all about context though. A band with bass, guitars, drums, keys and two vocals using track to add a little something on a big arrangement like a 70s disco tune is completely different to one man with an acoustic guitar using tracks for bass, drums, keys, horns, electric guitar etc etc. [/quote] A sensible, professional view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I worked (in a record company capacity) with The Sounds of Blackness - a 60 piece gospel outfit. Their MD, Gary Hines used to travel everywhere with a cabin baggage suitcase in which he had tracks so that the band could perform anything from the four lead singers through to the full 60 piece. They did the Royal Festival Hall as about a 16 piece, but did exactly the same act for a TV show as a ten piece. An amazing man, keeping an act like that working for so many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkandrew Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1477231330' post='3160711'] It's all about context though. A band with bass, guitars, drums, keys and two vocals using track to add a little something on a big arrangement like a 70s disco tune is completely different to one man with an acoustic guitar using tracks for bass, drums, keys, horns, electric guitar etc etc. [/quote] Again, I absolutely agree. When I was gigging - in the Brit Pop band we used to play absolutely everything live but in my industrial band we used to use backing tracks, mainly for sound effects, additional keyboard parts and other "atmospherics" - this was in the early 1990s and the backing track was on a Tascam 4 track Portastudio but I suppose if I was doing it now, I'd have a laptop (running either Cubase, Protools or something similar) with complete multitrack recordings of all the songs on it so that I could mute the parts that we were playing live and have the rest played from hard disk / SSD. Edited October 23, 2016 by darkandrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cytania Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) The trouble with backing tracks is they can't hear the singer miss his cue and play an extra bar till he comes in. Live players go with the flow and cover, I was about to say mistakes but it's more than that, if the singers want to throw some shapes or go for a walk in the audience why not? It's part of being a _live_ act. Edited October 23, 2016 by cytania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) We use some samples in the first set, some are triggered by the singist, who plays keys in the first set, and some we play to a click (in the drummer's ears) because they're more complex. We play the second set with two guitars (Singist switches from keys to guitar) which is all live. There's two different skillsets involved, one is to keep it all exactly to the prearranged click/sequence, the other is more seat of the pants playing. It increases the range of songs we can provide as a (semi)professional outfit, which is a good thing. As for the OP, have a chat, see why they're using them...then decide... Edited October 23, 2016 by Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I don't have anything against it but it wouldn't work for most of my bands. There's only one band where we could stick rigidly to a pre-recorded track with a click for the drummer (me). The rest of my bands feed off the singer/front people, and also off the atmosphere of the gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I suspect I'm one of the militant ones - if you use backing tracks it's simply a type of Karaoke IMHO.. Or playing along to stuff on the radio :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Plenty of bands out on the circuit doing this...... I've depped with a few that are very popular and earn top money. You either do or you don't, no big deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 [quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1477308402' post='3161215'] I suspect I'm one of the militant ones - if you use backing tracks it's simply a type of Karaoke IMHO.. Or playing along to stuff on the radio :-) [/quote] I think it is context. A friend on mine writes panto scores and if the company has 11 shows... the music will not be a full band on every show, there is not the budget for that. So, he'll put a live drummer in...and play keys and also run a track for everything else. For a function band..there are two schools of thought, IMO.. class act who want to maximise the split of the fee... but are such a good band that you know they'd be able to cover it otherwise..and the other one..which I think will be a struggle, is because a guy wants to thicken up the band sound... but he hasn't really thought it thru as to how well people can play to track and how you are going to monitor it. I'd be tempted to stay away from potential train-wrecks like this. The number of drummers who can play to a click REALLY well... is very few. Staying in time with it is the least of your problems... Even drummers who have made a very good living at playing to click... will talk you out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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