What to do when the drummer miss hits

[ambient]

I wonder if there are drummer forums, with drummers asking questions like, what do you do when your bassist forgets his line ? Or, what do you do when your bass player is too loud through his 1000 watt head and 2 4x10s. A good one, my bassist insists on dragging an old 1980s vintageTrace Elliot stack, it weighs an absolute ton, and takes up all the stage, any suggestions ?

😆

[Dad3353]

Those that are working are too busy to mess about on web forums, and those who [i]aren't [/i]working can't afford t'web.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Dad3353

[cheddatom]

Well I'm very tempted to start ranting about the bassists I have to put up with, but I won't

in terms of mistakes live though, I don't think I've ever actually dropped/missed a beat. Sure I've missed hitting an actual drum or something, but that doesn't effect the timing of the song at all. Sometimes if I'm distracted, I might hit something out of time, but it's easily ignored, it doesn't upset the groove we're all playing to. I play with 3 different bassists, they all occasionally make mistakes, but they always get back on track with me.

[dmccombe7]

Think it would depend on the drummer involved. Some drummers can re-catch the beat on their own and others need the help of the band to adjust to them. It would also depend on length of the gap too. A very slight pace change is easy to sort but dropping a stick or mental pause can be bit longer and more difficult to hide.
I've had to adapt to both and can't say its ever really bothered me too much. I've played with a lot of drummers over the years and like every band member they occasionally make the odd blooper but then again don't we all

Dave

[AdamWoodBass]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1477573156' post='3163075']
Yes, but did you notice how some of us carried on and waited for you to catch up?
True professionals.
[/quote]

Ha! Touché good sir!

[JTUK]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1477577384' post='3163121']
Well I'm very tempted to start ranting about the bassists I have to put up with, but I won't

in terms of mistakes live though,[b] I don't think I've ever actually dropped/missed a beat. Sure I've missed hitting an actual drum or something, but that doesn't effect the timing of the song at all. Sometimes if I'm distracted, I might hit something out of time, [/b]but it's easily ignored, it doesn't upset the groove we're all playing to. I play with 3 different bassists, they all occasionally make mistakes, but they always get back on track with me.
[/quote]

Same thing to me...it is not where it should be, so it totally messes up the groove.
There is no arbitary 1... 1 is 1 and so on. These things don't float, so that would bug the hell out of me.

Same as whimpy entries... emphatic no nonsense hits for me please.

Edited October 27, 2016 by JTUK

[mikel]

As I say, its the whole bands responsibility to keep the time/groove. If any member loses it, its there responsibility to get back in time with the rest. It seems wrong to me to expect the rest of the band to change stride, at the same time, to get back in line with the one who has lost the groove.

[SICbass]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477342248' post='3161633']
Glare at the [s]drummer[/s] guitarist so everyone else knows it was their fault
[/quote]

There, fixed. You're welcome!

Edited October 28, 2016 by SICbass

[TimR]

But you're only as strong as your weakest link.

If the drummer has lost it and you've noticed then it's unlikely you're playing with a real solid guy who is likely to adjust back.

I've played with drummers who are convinced that they're the time keeper of the band and everyone should follow them. They start every tune with 4 stick clicks.

It's not always apparent you're playing with this type of drummer for a while, for various reasons.

It wasn't until I started playing with other bands and depping that Inrealised how bad the drummer I was playing with was. Even worse he was blaming all the problems on me and I was losing confidence. It wasn't fun playing with him, it was more like a war.

There may be some very experienced players here and a few pros who can recognise this sort of behaviour straight away. I'd challenge them to continue playing out of time with a drummer right to the end of a tune because he's convinced everyone else in the band is wrong.

Ultimately you can never win and leaving is the only option, then watch the band struggle as they go through a string of bass players.

Drums and bass lock in together. All the other instruments can shift easily around the beat and it makes no difference to the song. All the micro-timing is absorbed. But if the bass and drums are not locked in you have a real problem.

It's all very well saying sack the drummer, but you can't do that mid gig or if you have a string of gigs lined up.

[TimR]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477342248' post='3161633']
Glare at the drummer so everyone else knows it was their fault
[/quote]

Doesn't work if he's glaring at you.

[Monkey Steve]

from experience it depends on the band and the type of music. there's one drummer I've been playing with off and on for about 30 years, from my first band to the one I played my last gig with a few months ago, and we know enough to sit down with all our bands to discuss the best approach to recovering from a mistake - everybody makes them (we're not pros) and the rules tend to be that everybody gets in line with the drummer if he messes up the beat (very rare) because that's what the punters will actually notice, and if it's not him then we adjust to whatever mess the singer has made of things as, again, that's what the audience will actually notice. Nobody cares if the bass player or guitarist makes a mess of things so everybody else just powers on regardless and the offender has to catch up.

One band in particular suffered from a singer with a complete inability to work out where he was in the song and no sense of timing, and was forever coming in early/late, singing over the guitar solos, extending or shortening lines. But was a brilliant front man and worth working round.

And another with a lead guitarist with the fully functioning c##t gene that all lead guitarists have (oh, the stories...perhaps that's another thread...) and a less than ideal sense of rhythm. In fact it led to the break up of two bands - the drummer and guitarist also played in another rock covers band at the same time, and at a gig on the same weekend that I'd sent an e-mail round our band saying that I was quitting because I'd had enough of the lead guitarist, for the first time in living memory the drummer missed a hit (but kept in time) playing the final song at the other band's gig. The guitarist missed his queue, they limped through the rest of the song and then he stormed off stage and had a rant at the drummer. So the drummer had a rant back about exactly how much of a c##t the guitarist was, and that was the end of both bands.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='SICbass' timestamp='1477653535' post='3163584']


There, fixed. You're welcome!
[/quote]
Ha,good point!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477657246' post='3163624']
Doesn't work if he's glaring at you.
[/quote]
As if there is a drummer out there who's face isn't completely obscured by cymbals.

[stingrayPete1977]

Bass players should never come out from behind the pillar that is installed in all pubs just for that purpose.

[EBS_freak]

Most bass players are too fixated on their left hand to glare at anything!

[chris_b]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477662664' post='3163704']
Bass players should never come out from behind the pillar that is installed in all pubs just for that purpose.
[/quote]

You've been to some of my gigs then!

[AdamWoodBass]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477662664' post='3163704']
Bass players should never come out from behind the pillar that is installed in all pubs just for that purpose.
[/quote]

So that's what it's for! I always suspected, never felt comfortable when people can actually see me lol!

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477656780' post='3163618']
But you're only as strong as your weakest link.

If the drummer has lost it and you've noticed then it's unlikely you're playing with a real solid guy who is likely to adjust back.

I've played with drummers who are convinced that they're the time keeper of the band and everyone should follow them. They start every tune with 4 stick clicks.

It's not always apparent you're playing with this type of drummer for a while, for various reasons.

It wasn't until I started playing with other bands and depping that Inrealised how bad the drummer I was playing with was. Even worse he was blaming all the problems on me and I was losing confidence. It wasn't fun playing with him, it was more like a war.

There may be some very experienced players here and a few pros who can recognise this sort of behaviour straight away.[b] I'd challenge them to continue playing out of time with a drummer right to the end of a tune because he's convinced everyone else in the band is wrong.[/b]

Ultimately you can never win and leaving is the only option, then watch the band struggle as they go through a string of bass players.

Drums and bass lock in together. All the other instruments can shift easily around the beat and it makes no difference to the song. All the micro-timing is absorbed. But if the bass and drums are not locked in you have a real problem.

It's all very well saying sack the drummer, but you can't do that mid gig or if you have a string of gigs lined up.
[/quote]

I am often amazed at the drummers people will put up with. I'll see this in dep gigs as I wouldn't come across them otherwise, tbh.
I have come to the conclusion that I am very susceptible to time..so in turn, my time is very good, IMO, but I can't drag someone too far..and neither should I have to.

A recent experience had a drummer that used to come in on sections of a song at a completely different tempo to the tempo he start the song at..so in effect they could have been different songs. Funnily enough his time during THAT sequence was way more solid which made the different tempo's most baffling... He even knew he did it as well...!!!!!!!!!
THAT was very hard work and I didn't stick around.

As for time, I don't have to watch a drummer, if he is on our gigs, time is just not an issue so the 1 will be on the 1. I don't know why that is even a discussion.

Edited October 28, 2016 by JTUK

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1477666047' post='3163746']
A recent experience had a drummer that used to come in on sections of a song at a completely different tempo to the tempo he start the song at..
[/quote]

It's called a half time.

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1477666047' post='3163746']


I am often amazed at the drummers people will put up with. I'll see this in dep gigs as I wouldn't come across them otherwise, tbh.
I have come to the conclusion that I am very susceptible to time..so in turn, my time is very good, IMO, but I can't drag someone too far..and neither should I have to.

A recent experience had a drummer that used to come in on sections of a song at a completely different tempo to the tempo he start the song at..so in effect they could have been different songs. Funnily enough his time during THAT sequence was way more solid which made the different tempo's most baffling... He even knew he did it as well...!!!!!!!!!
THAT was very hard work and I didn't stick around.

As for time, I don't have to watch a drummer, if he is on our gigs, time is just not an issue so the 1 will be on the 1. I don't know why that is even a discussion.
[/quote]

The reason it's up for discussion is that it can and does happen. The OP is questioning the right way to resolve it because he feels that whichever way you solve it, it 'feels' wrong.

I'd suggest this is because the mistake has already happened and after that everything is 'wrong'.

In this case two wrongs do actually make a right. Someone has to do something that is wrong musically to pull it all back into line.

Edited October 28, 2016 by TimR

[EBS_freak]

Man, I so want to see a JTUK gig where somebody makes a mistake.

JTUK is the James Brown reincarnate. Getting fined and firing your band!

Edited October 28, 2016 by EBS_freak

[leschirons]

The drummer and myself are always having a bit of a laugh on stage. It's a good relationship and he's a good enough player for me to know that if he messes up, it's not a regular thing so, we have a giggle. The audience will hardly notice if at all, he'll then try and throw in something I'm not expecting and then I'll grab hold of his crash as he hits it.

A lot of the time (as long as your playing is generally good and on the mark) the band enjoying themselves on stage is as important to the performance as the quality of the music.

All about being flexible.

[JTUK]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1477668455' post='3163768']
The drummer and myself are always having a bit of a laugh on stage. It's a good relationship and he's a good enough player for me to know that if he messes up, it's not a regular thing so, we have a giggle. The audience will hardly notice if at all, he'll then try and throw in something I'm not expecting and then I'll grab hold of his crash as he hits it.

A lot of the time (as long as your playing is generally good and on the mark) the band enjoying themselves on stage is as important to the performance as the quality of the music.

All about being flexible.
[/quote]

I agree with that.... I just don't know why timing issues are an option in a drummer.

[ahpook]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477667652' post='3163760']
The reason it's up for discussion is that it can and does happen. The OP is questioning the right way to resolve it because he feels that whichever way you solve it, it 'feels' wrong.
[/quote]

Indeed, not everyone here plays with faultless musicians, so dealing with people who aren't always 100% is the way it works.

Edited October 28, 2016 by ahpook

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1477669018' post='3163775']
Indeed, not everyone here plays with faultless musicians, so dealing with people who aren't always 100% is they way it works.
[/quote]

Lets face it, there is never such thing as a 100% faultless musician - even if you had Buddy Rich on drums, there would still be a problem. Aside from him being dead of course.

Edited October 28, 2016 by EBS_freak