Neck dive

[Count Bassy]

Greetings all.

I have recently aquired a Mexican Fender Urge (mk 1) (it was on E-bay from Johnny Roadhouse Music - you might have seen it).

To be honest I probably paid over the odds for it, but then its a 32" scale, which is hard to find these days, so I'm not too worried about that.

Generally I am very pleased with it, and will probably be on the look out for a USA one (with the P pickup as well as the two J ones) - any one got one for sale? (there was one on Ebay a few weeks earlier, but it was a long way away and the bloke wouldn't ship it, and it would have been a days round trip, etc etc).

But, getting to the point at last, it does suffer from neck dive, especially with a webbing type (i.e. slippery) strap; largely due to the relatively small body on it. A leather strap does help, but it still tends to dive if I've got both hands off and jigging around a bit.
I've seen postings here where someone put a bit of an extension on the top horn, but I was wondering about adding some weight to the back end. There's some space in control cavity, and I was thinking of forming a chunk of lead to put in there to adjust the balance. I even thought of hollowing out a bit of the body from inside the control cavity and filling it with something heavy.

I'm a big bloke so an extra pound or so on the weight won't bother me.

Has anyone tried anything like this? If so with what results.

I suppose an alternative would be to replace the the machines with light weights, but how much difference would this make?
I even thought about (but not for long) converting it to a 2 + 2, and lopping 3 inches off the head.

Anyone got any ideas/thoughts?


As a totally separate issue, how do the Mexican pickups compare with the USA ones? Would any improvement be worth the expense?
opinions please!


Clive.

[markytbass]

Leland Sklar strapped a weight to the strap of his bass. This may be a better option to try before doing anything to the bass itself.

[Count Bassy]

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm not sure if hanging a wieght off the strap/peg would be a suitable permanent solution, but would certainly allow me to see how much weight would be required, and hence if there was a resonable change of concealing it within the body.


Getting the balance of a bass right would seem to be a fairly basic requirement, and a fairly easy thing to adjust at the design stage, so how come so many companies, even big names like Fender manage to get it wrong? After all, love them or hate them, they've probably made and sold more basses than anyone else. Perhaps Stu Hamm likes neck dive?

Clive

[Toasted]

You could move one of the strap buttons?

Is that the purple urge? Did it need a good clean when it turned up?

[The Burpster]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='32235' date='Jul 15 2007, 10:14 PM']Getting the balance of a bass right would seem to be a fairly basic requirement, and a fairly easy thing to adjust at the design stage, so how come so many companies, even big names like Fender manage to get it wrong? After all, love them or hate them, they've probably made and sold more basses than anyone else. Perhaps Stu Hamm likes neck dive?[/quote]

Clive,

Fenders original (and now copied, ad infinitum) design was conceived in a time when polyester webbing was a thing of dreams , so all the straps would have been made of genuine cow..... and hence they wouldnt have dived so much as the strap would have more friction.
You stick all that metal at the end of a long neck (on what was basically a Stratocaster body) and its going to take some big remedial work to stop it..... Fender could, and I'm sure would have changed thier design to move the CoG, if thats what the cutomer wanted, but it would appear that over the years that is not the case.

Easy solutions (avoiding adding weights) would involve strap changes or making the straps that you do have, present more friction to your shoulder. The leather Fender strap that I use on my P has a chamois leather lining and it doesnt allow the neck to dive anywhere near as much as if I used a manmade fabric strap, as you've already experienced. (also, wider strap =more friction, so maybe try a wide lined strap if you havent already tried that?).

I'd be very surprised if someone hasn't tried remedial treatment on the CoG......

That might not be what you want to hear and may not be a reply to what you asked, but it might be worth you investigating....... ?

[endorka]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='31349' date='Jul 13 2007, 03:51 PM']I suppose an alternative would be to replace the the machines with light weights, but how much difference would this make?[/quote]

I looked into this once, and depending on the weight of your current machine heads, the answer can be "quite a bit of difference". Machine heads can be pretty heavy; given that they are effectively on the end of a lever, this effect of this weight will be multiplied. I'd suggest taking one off your bass and weighing it, then compare this weight to the weight of the lightweight ones that are available (specs are listed on the websites) and you can make an educated guess about how much difference it would make. Say you managed to reduce the weight to 50% of the original, you could get an idea of what this would be like by removing two of your original machine heads and seeing if the balance has improved.

Jennifer

[Count Bassy]

Once again,

Thanks for your on going thoughts and ideas.

I've transfered my leather strap to the urge and it does help a lot! It still dives, but tends to work its way down rather than slide all the way in one move, so a distinct improvement.

Nice idea to remove a tuner or two. I'll give it a go.


Toasted, It's more of a dull turquoise rather than purple. From the photo's I thought it looked like it needed a clean, especially round the knobs and the pickups, but actually it was OK. I think it may have been some shadows in the photos.

I'll keep you informed of the progress.

Clive.

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='31349' date='Jul 13 2007, 03:51 PM']... But, getting to the point at last, it does suffer from neck dive, especially with a webbing type (i.e. slippery) strap; largely due to the relatively small body on it. A leather strap does help, but it still tends to dive if I've got both hands off and jigging around a bit.
I've seen postings here where someone put a bit of an extension on the top horn, but I was wondering about adding some weight to the back end. There's some space in control cavity, and I was thinking of forming a chunk of lead to put in there to adjust the balance. I even thought of hollowing out a bit of the body from inside the control cavity and filling it with something heavy.

I'm a big bloke so an extra pound or so on the weight won't bother me ...[/quote]

I had a similar problem with a 5-string Corvette, so I hung a bag of nuts and washers on the body strap button to work out how much weight I would need, then I folded that weight of sheet lead into a bar and put it in a padded mobile phone case, which I threaded the strap through. It worked, but it made the bass noticeably heavier, and when I put it back on its stand, the weight kept getting in the way.

I also looked at fitting hipshot ultralites, but the weight saving at the end of the neck did not fully balance the bass, even when added back on at the body strap button - and it was going to cost £100 -£125

Eventually I went for the discreet extended horn option, and if any musician has noticed it, they have not commented.

[Chopthebass]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='33523' date='Jul 18 2007, 12:11 PM']I had a similar problem with a 5-string Corvette, so I hung a bag of nuts and washers on the body strap button to work out how much weight I would need, then I folded that weight of sheet lead into a bar and put it in a padded mobile phone case, which I threaded the strap through. It worked, but it made the bass noticeably heavier, and when I put it back on its stand, the weight kept getting in the way.

I also looked at fitting hipshot ultralites, but the weight saving at the end of the neck did not fully balance the bass, even when added back on at the body strap button - and it was going to cost £100 -£125

Eventually I went for the discreet extended horn option, and if any musician has noticed it, they have not commented.[/quote]


I've seen people replace the top strap button with an extended type. The idea is that the further up the neck the strap is, the better the balance. I've also seen one that fits on the rear of the top horn and is an arm that rotates and stops in the correct position. The strap is attached to this and the usual button at the bridge end. Dunno where I saw that! Sorry!