Shortscale and sparkly. On a budget. By a Beginner

[FuNkShUi]

Ok so this will be my first project of any type, so all help/hints/advice is appreciated!!
My plan is to buy a short scale bass, and upgrade the hardware that i think will make a difference to the sound, and give it a metallic finish(of some kind).
I've also got a few other ideas, but we'll see about them when we get there .
Hopefully i'll end up with a totally giggable bass, that is easy on the shoulder. I have a pre existing shoulder injury from rugby. With the gigging schedule getting busier, it'd be good to have this extremely lightweight option, should i need it.
If possible, i want to keep the spending to below £200.

So here is what i picked up:



Its a Encore short scale bass. Just the job! Weighs about 5.5Llbs

So my plan is to upgrade the pickups, the bridge, the tuners, the wiring loom, get some tidy strings, and refinish the body in a metallic flake.

I was very lucky to get this bass off Mark, who is "Only4" on this forum.
He offered me the bass with a Hipshot A type bridge already on it. Result! Also came with a string tree, which is something i hadn't considered, but i like the look of it now its there!
Mark originally had Gotoh resolite tuners and a set of Bareknuckle pickups on it too, but because i only wanted to spend a certain amount, we agreed he would put the original parts back on so i can stay within my budget. All good by me.

The bass arrived and had some really nice tuners on it, and after speaking to Mark he explained he couldn't fit the original tuners back on after drilling the holes bigger for the Gotoh tuners. So what i had was some Gotoh styled tuners from his bit box. They are great. I wont be needing to change them. Also included is a upgraded wiring loom! Cheers Mark. Top banana. This modding business is easy

I've bought some Entwistle Neodynium PBXN pickups off McNach (jose) after reading all the good reviews on them. Cheers Jose

And i've bought a couple of sets of shortscale Picato strings off Pow22 (Paul).

Some good people on this forum have allowed me to get most the stuff i need, well under budget. Good work Basschat peoples.

First thing to do is take it all apart so the guitar is ready for me to remove the paint.
So i've done that:







I'm lucky that Andyjr1515 (Andy) is willing to help me with bits of advice when i bug him with questions, and please, anyone see anything or have suggestions, feel free to chip in.

I've also taken the pickguard off, and disconnected the pickups from the pots, i just forgot to take pictures of this.

This weekend i hopefully will get started on removing the paint with a heatgun and scraper initially, before attacking it with various degrees of sandpaper.

Watch this space

Any suggestions for colour? I'm thinking metallic orange flake with a matching headstock and either a black or metallic grey pickguard

Edited November 11, 2016 by FuNkShUi

[Marc S]

Nice Project Kert.
I usually carry a backup bass (for paying gigs) and sometimes I end up playing in a jam session - so sometimes need to travel very light. So IMO, it's handy to keep a small-ish, lightweight bass in the stable for such occasions

I've heard good things about the quality of Encore basses, or at least the earlier Indian made models of their P bass. Not heard any in depth reports about their short scale basses though, so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts once this has been fully upgraded.

A bit of sparkle could be nice on a budget project like this, but I have to say, I do like sunburst - especially on a fender shaped bass
Good luck with this project, and keep us posted

Marc

Edited October 27, 2016 by Marc S

[scrumpymike]

Looks like you're almost there - apart from the tricky job of stripping/re-finishing. Are you doing that with aerosols?

[FuNkShUi]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1477565560' post='3162981']
Nice Project Kert.
I usually carry a backup bass (for paying gigs) and sometimes I end up playing in a jam session - so sometimes need to travel very light. So IMO, it's handy to keep a small-ish, lightweight bass in the stable for such occasions

I've heard good things about the quality of Encore basses, or at least the earlier Indian made models of their P bass. Not heard any in depth reports about their short scale basses though, so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts once this has been fully upgraded.

A bit of sparkle could be nice on a budget project like this, but I have to say, I do like sunburst - especially on a fender shaped bass
Good luck with this project, and keep us posted

Marc
[/quote]

I can't common on stock sound quality, as i didn't even plug it in!
I know, bit stupid of me, but like i said i already had in my ind this was going to be a project so i got started straight away.
It certainly looks well made though. The neck fits in the pocket brilliantly and the truss rod turns freely.
Really happy with my "starting point".
I'm not a sunburst guy. I usually just like the wood to show through. But im guessing after i remove this paint, that won't be a viable option.
So metallic and shiny it will be

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1477568675' post='3163016']
Looks like you're almost there - apart from the tricky job of stripping/re-finishing. Are you doing that with aerosols?
[/quote]

I have no experience whatsoever, i was going to use a heatgun and scraper, and then just use sandpaper.
Happy to take any direction/suggestions though!

My sister teaches art, and is very crafty and has suggested a few other sparkly touches. Should be good!!

[FuNkShUi]

Here's a few questions for those who have more experience than me.....

What would happen if i used five different colours of metal flake mixed together? Something like this:

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/metal-flake-a-5-different-colour-pack-for-custom-work-/380207642919?hash=item5886243927:m:mI2F--DqBeMz78kcMXOpG5A"]http://www.ebay.co.u...BeMz78kcMXOpG5A[/url]

Or even just two? Like these two:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DK-PURPLE-200-MICRONS-METAL-FLAKE-100-GRAM-BAGS-/162254496186?hash=item25c71f21ba:g:MIsAAOxyLN9Se~Pt

and
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RED-GOLD-200-MICRONS-METAL-FLAKE-100-GRAMS-BAGS-/152293744763?hash=item23756a207b:g:P28AAOxyTMdTKaAg

I'm not going for "conservative" here

If i did go for something like this, what colour base coat would you use? White im guessing? Or a inca silver kinda thing?

Edited October 27, 2016 by FuNkShUi

[Andyjr1515]

Watching with great interest, Kert.

I'll be interested in the metallic application suggestions and tips and techniques from basschat members - it's not something I've ever tackled myself....

Andy

[FuNkShUi]

Yeh not sure best way to go about that but i've got a bit of work to get to that stage so i have time!

What do you think about putting the two types of flake together Andy? Potential? Or too much?

This really is a fly by the seat of my pants affair for me so i'm more than willing to take a risk haha

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1477579075' post='3163143']

What do you think about putting the two types of flake together Andy? Potential? Or too much?

[/quote]

Really no idea.

It could look great....or it could look yuk

I'm leaning towards yuk at the moment ...but you could always try it on some scrap

[BassApprentice]

Regarding stripping the paint. I did it recently using Nitro Mors (other brands are available) scraped that off then sanded off the stubborn bits. I think it worked well and protected the body underneath (mostly, it did melt the plastic binding....).

Good luck, getting in to modding and building is a slippery slope. I keep thinking what I can mod on my basses rather than actually playing them!

[scrumpymike]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1477580432' post='3163157']
Really no idea.

It could look great....or it could look yuk

I'm leaning towards yuk at the moment ...but you could always try it on some scrap
[/quote]
There's certainly big potential for a 'yuk' result - and no way of knowing until you've shelled out the cash. Have you considered metallic black, white or an off-white such as champagne (bubbly as well as sparkly)? Depends on whether you want sparkly/tasteful or sparkly/shocking.

[Norris]

I've earmarked metallic flake for my third build, but at the pace I go at it could be some time. I was thinking CAR with gold flake

I'm currently 13 months into my first build - a telecaster guitar (but with lots of details)

[Mykesbass]

Fill your glittery boots: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/255440-finally-finished-stingray-refinish/page__p__2700594__hl__glitter__fromsearch__1#entry2700594"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/255440-finally-finished-stingray-refinish/page__p__2700594__hl__glitter__fromsearch__1#entry2700594[/url]

[3below]

Before undertaking wholesale stripping, try some paint stripper under the pickguard, see what happens. I have a body that was so resistant to paint stripper and the heat gun that I gave up. Another possibility would be to key the existing finish and spray onto that. Again try in an inconspicuous spot first just in case that the paint reacts. Others who have much more experience will be along soon

[Andyjr1515]

If it's modern poly, which I assume it will be, I think it is unlikely that Nitromors will touch it (although by all means try it). For me, if it's nitro I reach for the sanding block and if it's poly I reach for the heat gun!

[Manton Customs]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1477594940' post='3163285']
If it's modern poly, which I assume it will be, I think it is unlikely that Nitromors will touch it (although by all means try it). For me, if it's nitro I reach for the sanding block and if it's poly I reach for the heat gun!
[/quote]

If it's Nitro reach for the Acetone . A bit on a rag will remove it very quickly...not relevant here so I'll stop going off topic.

As mentioned above, quite often you don't have to strip it, you'll have a much easier time if you don't...provided what you're using is compatible. The existing finish will act as a perfect base for subsequent coats if it is. Just give the current finish a good key with 600 or so. Though I could understand the desire to strip and start over fresh too! If you don't strip and pick up a ding you'll likely see the old colour underneath, which a long with a thick finish are about the only downsides.

Metallics are not an easy first spray job as you really have to dust the metallic coats on and you can't sand them if you make a mistake (and it's quite likely you will!). Not trying to discourage you, just a warning! I'd probably recommend a non metallic opaque as a first attempt....and not black!

Edited October 27, 2016 by Manton Customs

[FuNkShUi]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I will be wanting/ needing more

ScrumpyMike - I had seen some nice champagne flip paint type metallic flake. But to be honest i am going for shocking.
Like i said, i want this bass to be very different to the two i have.

Bass apprentice - don't think i have enough time to get into this "proper". But having seen all the great builds i really fancied doing something small, to see what kind of results i could get.

Norris - I like the sound of CAR with a gold flake. I'm going to try go for a finish like the link Mykesbass provided so wont see too much of the undercoat.

3Below - What do you mean by "key the existing finish"? I really am a complete beginner, and as such everything needs to be explained

Manton - After reading your comment i'm guessing "keying" is just a roughing up of the surface to make the subsequent coats apply better? Im not worried about the thickness of coats. And im pretty careful so cant envisage massive dings. And if it happens, i'll deal with that then. I didn't realise applying on top of the poly was an option. (its definitely not nitro) I agree it isn't an easy option, and there's a good chance of me messing it up, but i'm ok with that. If that happens, i can always strip off and start again
Quite like JimRyans method of doing it, and i like how his looked in the end too.

OK, i think i have made a decision to try out the multiple flake madness method. What's the worst that could happen??
I'm going to go for these three:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metallic-Polyester-Cut-Custom-Car-Bike-Paint-RUBY-SLIPPER-RED-Metal-Flake-25g-/161990102573?hash=item25b75cce2d:g:RgMAAOSwe7BW0K~j

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metallic-Polyester-Cut-Custom-Car-Bike-Paint-COPPER-Metal-Flake-25g-/172115297033?hash=item2812df0309:g:WjsAAOSwuAVW0Kw4

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metallic-Polyester-Cut-Custom-Car-Bike-Paint-GOLD-Metal-Flake-25g-/151996322766?hash=item2363afd3ce:g:YLkAAOSw~OVW0Kvo

I'll try them on a test piece first, but there is every chance i will just go for it too

So baring in mind i have no clue what i'm doing, what base coat should i use? Colour and brand?
After applying the base coat, is there anything i need to do before trying to apply the flake?

Thanks everyone so far. All comments appreciated!

[Manton Customs]

Yep, keying basically means slightly roughing up the surface, a rougher surface (within reason!) will help the paint grab onto the tiny scratches. Whereas a smooth surface can be quite slick. Also give it a thorough wipe down with lighter fluid or similar once you've keyed it.

There are loads of different variations on poly finishes, incompatibility is rare but to make sure give it a quick test spray of primer and make sure it adheres well. If the primer goes on ok, the rest will.

Apologies if you already know this but the listings you have included are all for use with spray equipment...they aren't aerosols, they aren't even paint, just the flake which you mix into clear coat. I was assuming you'd be using pre mixed aerosols before, but using flake like that isn't really an option with aerosols as far as I'm aware.

If you fancy CAR you can buy the aerosols from northwest guitar or Rothko and Frost. you'd need primer, silver or gold metallic base, then you spray transparent red (for CAR) then clear. Your easiest bet would be aersols and it'll still be a b******! Expensive too, but it'll be worth it in the end! Also get yourself a respirator.

[FuNkShUi]

Thanks Manton.

I knew they weren't Aerosols. I assumed (wrongly) that i applied the flake to a clear coat. Dusting it on. I assumed that's what JimRyan did on his thread?

No problem though, i will have a look at the suppliers you have mentioned.

I have a respirator so at least that is one thing i don't need to buy

Edited October 28, 2016 by FuNkShUi

[Manton Customs]

The normal way is to mix it into your clear (as in what would be inside the can on an aerosol...obviously not possible). But yeah it looks like in that thread he's just been kind of throwing it at it, sort of mixing it on the outside. Which I haven't seen done before. Maybe you could try that also, if you'd be happy with those kind of results. Or the premixed aersols if you'd like more conventional results.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Manton Customs

[FuNkShUi]

Its all new to me so im going to try a few test strips this weekend hopefully

Cheers Manton

[Maude]

The problem with sprinkling the flake on is it will take loads of layers of lacquer to bury it, especially if using aerosols as they will be thinner. Also aerosols aren't hardened by a chemical reaction as a two pack sprayed lacquer would be so building up many many layers brings it's own problems with it fully hardening.

[FuNkShUi]

I appreciate what you're saying. But i'm trying to do this on a budget and a proper spray can will take me over.
I'm awaiting the flake and base i've ordered, hopefully do some test strips this weekend.

[Andyjr1515]

As said earlier, I know nothing about spraying glitter....other than having two semi-arty daughters who used to use glitter for tattoos and art projects. There might be some art-based YouTube clips like this https://youtu.be/1ghJ3jlYdnY that have very low cost ways of applicating glitter evenly.

By the way, I can lend you/give you a cheapo and basically a disposable airbrush if you want to rig it up to an air-can. I also have somewhere in my distant memory an artists trick of rigging a straw over a jam jar for a mouth blown airbrush??

[FuNkShUi]

That's very good of you Andy.
My sister is very skilled at art and craft type stuff, and suggested a kind of shaker method to apply the glitter. Basically a Pringle type tube, with holes in the bottom slightly bigger than the flake.
Just acts like a salt shaker really. I'm going to give that a go first, as like i said, i'd like to see what kind of a results a true novice can get, using low cost methods.
I have no illusions this is going to be anywhere near the quality of build that a lot of you more seasoned builders get. But i will hopefully learn from the whole experience. I'll document it all (the good and bad), so if someone else who is inexperienced fancies a go with minimum expenditure, they can see where the mistakes were made.
Which leads me on nicely to this past weekends activities.......

Edited October 31, 2016 by FuNkShUi

[Andyjr1515]

Great stuff . Look forward to seeing the results. My wife has reminded me that it is a method of spraying pottery glaze onto pots that can be done the hand blowing method. I'll try to dig out the details in case the shaker approach isn't any good.