what does the Trace Elliot pre shape button do?

[PaulWarning]

just this really, I've tried to get the TE pre shaped sound by using the 12 band EQ and can't, does it do anything else besides presetting the EQ? if not does anybody know what frequencies it alters? I want to try and get the TE sound out of another amp using EQing

[BigRedX]

From a Trace Elliot manual:

[quote]PRE SHAPE 1 is the classic TRACE ELLIOT EQ as found on Series 6 units the SMX and the SM range of amplifiers, it adds a boost at both the low end (50Hz) and the high end (2 to 5kHz) of the frequency spectrum as well as a cut at mid frequencies (400Hz).
PRE SHAPE 2 is more rock orientated equalisation providing a wider bandwidth boost at low frequencies, less of a mid cut and a slight boost at higher frequencies. This is a less extreme EQ than PRE SHAPE 1.[/quote]

So both will give a version of the "smiley face" EQ with the second version being less extreme.

[Merton]

http://resource.noiseguide.com/dc/res_933_trace_elliot_sm7eq_manual.pdf

See here

[stingrayPete1977]

It teleports you to 1993!

[ras52]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1478018341' post='3166065']
It teleports you to 1993!
[/quote]

Is that the Time Before Shape?

[PaulWarning]

cheers guys, so it is just EQing I guess, I've got a series 6, 12 eq with just the one preshape, I do find it a bit extreme but do like the concept of it, ( it's never activated when in a band situation although I do cut the 6.3k Hz slider a lot ) I'll have to have another play around with it, the TE amp in the rehearsal room we use sounds terrible without the preshape activated, so I'm guessing they're not all the same

[JTUK]

I never like the graphic tbh... but the pre shape is a good quick reference if you are unused to them.

I'd suggest setting up the pre shape and then switch it out and try and mimic that sound using the sliders.
I preferred it when they tried to warm up the fundemental metallicy sound with valves and the Twin was a nice little unit.

[mep]

The pre shape is a bit useless I found. Ok on its own but no good in a band situation as it gets lost. I went for boosting the low mids which will cut through more.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1478029163' post='3166211']
The pre shape is a bit useless I found. Ok on its own but no good in a band situation as it gets lost. I went for boosting the low mids which will cut through more.
[/quote]that's what I've found, although as I said before I do cut around 6K Hz to get rid of 'boxiness' which is what some of the preshape does, and boost the low mids 100 - 200 Hz, I'm just interested in what certain frequencies do, for instance I've found that cutting 60 Hz gets rid of booming when I'm play around the 7th fret on the A string on my P bass

[Kiwi]

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1478029163' post='3166211']
The pre shape is a bit useless I found. Ok on its own but no good in a band situation as it gets lost. I went for boosting the low mids which will cut through more.
[/quote]
Me too. It sucks out all those frequencies I use for telling what pitch I'm playing.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1478030242' post='3166228']
that's what I've found, although as I said before I do cut around 6K Hz to get rid of 'boxiness' which is what some of the preshape does, and boost the low mids 100 - 200 Hz, I'm just interested in what certain frequencies do, for instance I've found that cutting 60 Hz gets rid of booming when I'm play around the 7th fret on the A string on my P bass
[/quote]
6KHz for boxiness is new - normally those frequencies are around 400-600Hz. Be careful with boosting 100Hz if you're in a small room, have a hollow stage or are in a highly reflective environment. Having the stage awash with sub 100Hz frequencies is not necessarily a good thing unless you're playing a stadium or on the back of a truck outside.

Lots of players make the mistake of thinking that what sounds good in practice will sound good at a gig. They then play through a set up where not being able to hear themselves is normal and they think it sounds great because it worked in rehearsal. Often bass players (and guitarists) just need to cut back [i]a little[/i] on the bass in order to achieve better clarity on stage.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1478051829' post='3166422']
Me too. It sucks out all those frequencies I use for telling what pitch I'm playing.


6KHz for boxiness is new - normally those frequencies are around 400-600Hz. Be careful with boosting 100Hz if you're in a small room, have a hollow stage or are in a highly reflective environment. Having the stage awash with sub 100Hz frequencies is not necessarily a good thing unless you're playing a stadium or on the back of a truck outside.

Lots of players make the mistake of thinking that what sounds good in practice will sound good at a gig. They then play through a set up where not being able to hear themselves is normal and they think it sounds great because it worked in rehearsal. Often bass players (and guitarists) just need to cut back [i]a little[/i] on the bass in order to achieve better clarity on stage.
[/quote]sorry got my KHz mixed up, yeah I cut 600Hz to get rid of boxiness, and I agree you have to be very careful about boosting below 100Hz which the 100 Hz slider does, on the TE GP12 it probably does between 80 and 120Hz, I find the 180Hz slider is best for cutting through and as I said before I cut back the 60Hz slider to get rid of booming

[RhysP]

The Trace Elliot pre shape sound is one of my least favourite amp sounds of all time. Never understood why it was so popular.
I really don't like Smiley Face graphic settings in general though.

[Twincam]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1478124466' post='3167019']
The Trace Elliot pre shape sound is one of my least favourite amp sounds of all time. Never understood why it was so popular.
I really don't like Smiley Face graphic settings in general though.
[/quote]

Agreed. Even though ive liked a smiley face eq on many amps but the trace pre shape buttons are horrible.
However I've heard/seen people play with horrible settings for me but sound great themselves.

[bassjim]

The way i used to use it was as a "slap sound". I had this foot pedal that came with it and every time I wanted to slap I engaged it. By setting the graphic/falt slider at the right point you could make sure the pre shape gave a boost as well.
It didnt do any thing for a fingers tone so for that I used the graphic on its own to varying degrees of success. Usually not very good but the sudden "slap presence" worked good in the middle of a tune.

[thodrik]

I always use the Pre Shape 1 when I use my Trace Elliot combo. I found Pre Shape 2 to be far too muddy in terms of sound. I know 'mid cut' or 'smiley face' pre shapes are unfashionable these days, but I always thought that my Trace Elliot combo was naturally pretty middy sounding anyway. The Pre Shape helped to open up the sound and remove the natural 'boxiness' of the combo. I would always add a bit of the mids back in to even out the sound.

I could try and EQ the sound in I wanted using the graphic without the pre shape, but I found the whole thing a bit fiddly and the pre shape was just quick way of getting a half decent 'reference sound' to work from. From experience though I far prefer bass, middle and treble knobs rather than a graphic EQ.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1478358390' post='3168605']but I always thought that my Trace Elliot combo was naturally pretty middy sounding anyway.
[/quote]know what you mean, my Fender Rumble has more mids (400-600Hz) taken out on a flat EQ setting

[NickA]

The trace combos are indeed VERY middy; I think they are trying to reproduce everything rather than simply sounding "nice"; worth dialing in a bit of a smiley to get back to a flat response and cut the "clatter".

I find pre-shape 2 useless and pre-shape 1 only useful if you want to make people laugh by doing an OTT slap impression; that "Classic Trace Sound". Never use them.

I have two bits of cardboard, one labelled WAL and the other DB, cut to the shapes of two different smileys. Insert appropriate bit of card below 12 band eq and push gently up. Otherwise you can spend your whole life pushing the little sliders up and down and up and down trying to find that perfect sound that was so good yesterday .. and getting no practice done.

Of course you can really go to town and use a smiley AND a pre-shape, plus lots of compression and a bit of bass tilt!

There is a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNQclaAmyX8 in which John Pattitucci explains how to set up the EQ with a Double Bass pickup - trying to get as flat a frequency response as possible (double bass obsession with getting " a double bass only louder " out of the speaker). OK it's a double bass and it's not a trace amp, but he still ends up with a smiley!

[Dan Dare]

On my old AH350, the answer to "what does the pre-shape button do" was "makes the sound usable". As NickA says, the flat sound was very mid prominent. Using the pre-shape (and then adding my chosen eq via the graphic) was essential, I found. Nice head, though. Flexible and powerful. If it hadn't been so heavy, I'd probably still have it.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dan Dare

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1478530420' post='3169627']
On my old AH350, the answer to "what does the pre-shape button do" was "makes the sound usable". As NickA says, the flat sound was very mid prominent. Using the pre-shape (and then adding my chosen eq via the graphic) was essential, I found. Nice head, though. Flexible and powerful. If it hadn't been so heavy, I'd probably still have it.
[/quote]yeah they have an AH350 head at the practice room and that sounds terrible without the preshape engaged, my own series 6 head sounds okish with everything flat, so they're not all the same

[4000]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1478358390' post='3168605']
I always use the Pre Shape 1 when I use my Trace Elliot combo. I found Pre Shape 2 to be far too muddy in terms of sound. I know 'mid cut' or 'smiley face' pre shapes are unfashionable these days, but I always thought that my Trace Elliot combo was naturally pretty middy sounding anyway. The Pre Shape helped to open up the sound and remove the natural 'boxiness' of the combo. I would always add a bit of the mids back in to even out the sound.

I could try and EQ the sound in I wanted using the graphic without the pre shape, but I found the whole thing a bit fiddly and the pre shape was just quick way of getting a half decent 'reference sound' to work from.
[/quote]

This.

Everything also depends on what sound you produce in the first place (i.e. with your hands), what your bass sounds like, what your speakers sound like etc etc etc. I always found Trace the easiest amp to get a big, aggressive, cutting sound out of, but of course YMMV.