Publishing, and song copyright, good places to go ??

[funkgod]

Hi all i know this subject has been touched on before, and i have back read over old threads,
I just want to get uptated,

i have about 2 or 3 cds worth of original tracks which we want to copyright, as we have had a few members in the band now who have been and gone, ( with our tracks as mp3, )
i write the songs with the singer and we record and produce them,
I have been told we should get them copyrighted.
can anyone offer good advice on where to go and pit falls.

also is music is copyrighted at time of production of the tracks?,
(proof being owner of the original stem files ? (all played by me, and singer)).

i have just been directed to a site called sentric music "to do it all with ease" ?.

[url="http://www.sentricmusic.com/whatwedo"]http://www.sentricmusic.com/whatwedo[/url]

the site offers us to copyright our tracks, and will collect royalties and put them into an account.
for this they charge 20% of the taking of any royalties,
is this good ?
are there any other sites or options
we are thinking of releasing 3 ep cds and a 12 track cd soon available for downloads as well.
so just want everything right before we get to that stage.
Thanks for any help here

edit..
oh.. is putting your tracks on soundcloud classed as good enough, as they would be time stamped at time of upload ?

Edited November 2, 2016 by funkgod

[Dad3353]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1478031023' post='3166233']...
Thanks for any help here...
[/quote]

This many be a reasonable starting point, maybe..?

[url="http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/Home/Advice/Your-Career/Legal/Copyright-and-Performers-Rights-FAQs"]Musician's Union: Copyright and other FAQ's ...[/url]

I don't think you'd have to pay a percentage to any organisation for dealing with this (one doesn't in France, at least; the UK may be [s]behind the times[/s] different in this...).

Edited November 1, 2016 by Dad3353

[ambient]

http://www.prsformusic.com/aboutus/FAQs/copyrightfaqs/Pages/default.aspx

[funkgod]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1478031832' post='3166244']
This many be a reasonable starting point, maybe..?

[url="http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/Home/Advice/Your-Career/Legal/Copyright-and-Performers-Rights-FAQs"]Musician's Union: Copyright and other FAQ's ...[/url]

I don't think you'd have to pay a percentage to any organisation for dealing with this (one doesn't in France, at least; the UK may be [s]behind the times[/s] different in this...).
[/quote]

Merci,, très utile juste ce dont j'avais besoin

Cheers dad that was very helpfull, straight to the points without all the fodder.
interesting bits....

"Unlike some countries, such as the USA where copyright requires registration to gain full protection (see [b][url="http://copyright.gov/"]copyright.gov[/url][/b]), in the UK, copyright in a work comes into existence when the work is created.
However, since there is no copyright in an idea, the Act spells out that musical works, literary works and dramatic works only come into existence as works capable of copyright protection once the work has been recorded in writing or otherwise.
Therefore, music (musical works) and lyrics (literary works) only acquire copyright once written down, or recorded on tape or disc, or into a computer, etc, and do not have copyright while only in your head.
Rather strangely, this means that if you improvise a new musical work with your band on stage and someone in the audience bootlegs you, the new work gains copyright protection only because of the bootleg recording. If it was not bootlegged, the new work would have no copyright protection."

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1478031970' post='3166247']
[url="http://www.prsformusic.com/aboutus/FAQs/copyrightfaqs/Pages/default.aspx"]http://www.prsformus...es/default.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Cheers Ambient, yea that confirms what dad sent, thanks


ok thats sorts copyright out, ( i think )
what about the next stage royalties and the collection of,
is 20% good for this ?

Edited November 1, 2016 by funkgod

[Dad3353]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1478032685' post='3166260']...
what about the next stage royalties and the collection of,
is 20% good for this ?
[/quote]

What does the MU have to say on the subject..?

[funkgod]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1478033414' post='3166275']
What does the MU have to say on the subject..?
[/quote]

Could not find alot about this.

from what i have read from ambients link to prs
[url="http://www.prsformusic.com/aboutus/FAQs/copyrightfaqs/Pages/default.aspx"]http://www.prsformus...es/default.aspx[/url]

What happens to your rights when you become a PRS for Music member?
When joining as a [i]PRS member [/i]your rights are transferred to us. These are:[list]
[*]to perform the music in the public, such as concerts, pubs and shops
[*]to communicate the music to the public, via broadcast, on demand services, internet services, satellite and cable transmissions and more.
[/list]
Are they just the same as what sentric are doing?
[url="http://www.sentricmusic.com/whatwedo"]http://www.sentricmusic.com/whatwedo[/url]

and will collect a % for services offered ?
sorry this is all new to me
so if joining sentric would i be handing over the rights to my music so they can collect any fees for use and just take their cut.
( they do state you are not tied to them by contract and can opt out and go to another publisher with 28 days notice.
so 20% of collected ( if any) i would not know if thats good or bad ?

I will have a scoot about see what other sites offer.

Edited November 1, 2016 by funkgod

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1478036180' post='3166315']
Could not find alot about this.

from what i have read from ambients link to prs
[url="http://www.prsformusic.com/aboutus/FAQs/copyrightfaqs/Pages/default.aspx"]http://www.prsformus...es/default.aspx[/url]

What happens to your rights when you become a PRS for Music member?
When joining as a [i]PRS member [/i]your rights are transferred to us. These are:[list]
[*]to perform the music in the public, such as concerts, pubs and shops
[*]to communicate the music to the public, via broadcast, on demand services, internet services, satellite and cable transmissions and more.
[/list]
Are they just the same as what sentric are doing?
[url="http://www.sentricmusic.com/whatwedo"]http://www.sentricmusic.com/whatwedo[/url]

and will collect a % for services offered ?
sorry this is all new to me
so if joining sentric would i be handing over the rights to my music so they can collect any fees for use and just take their cut.
( they do state you are not tied to them by contract and can opt out and go to another publisher with 28 days notice.
so 20% of collected ( if any) i would not know if thats good or bad ?

I will have a scoot about see what other sites offer.
[/quote]

PRS is the UK's official body for collecting writer's copyright royalties. It looks as if Sentric just offer a deal to collect your PRS (or other international collection agency) royalties for you and charge you for the privilege. This is what publishers do, but they should also be working your copyrights for you - actively seeking artists to use the songs or advertisers, film/TV producers to licence them. There is another part of royalty collection, that is PPL. PRS is for the song, PPL is for the performance, so if it is your CD getting played somewhere PPL will collect the money for this (including Youtube). PRS and PPL will have reciprocal deals with rights organisations around the world so will be collecting globally.

[Ashweb]

Interesting topic this and it throws up an interesting point to me. Excuse my ignorance on this subject as I am new to it, but in theory if you are in a covers band and you play a Beatles number, for example, at a gig - should you be paying some form of royalty to Paul McCartney?

[Earbrass]

[quote name='Ashweb' timestamp='1478039134' post='3166348']
Interesting topic this and it throws up an interesting point to me. Excuse my ignorance on this subject as I am new to it, but in theory if you are in a covers band and you play a Beatles number, for example, at a gig - should you be paying some form of royalty to Paul McCartney?
[/quote]

No, it's the venue that is liable - they should have a PRS licence which covers this. Not sure what the rule is if you're busking in the street, though.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1478037683' post='3166334']
PRS is the UK's official body for collecting writer's copyright royalties...
[/quote]

The slight difference is that PRS has an entrance fee of £100, whereas Sentric don't; they pay themselves by taking 20%. Which is the better deal..? A coin-toss, really. As a guide, the SACEM (the French equivalent...) have an entry fee of 127€, paid back if you leave. If it's to be a career choice, I'd say PRS every time.

[Ashweb]

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1478039800' post='3166357']
No, it's the venue that is liable - they should have a PRS licence which covers this. Not sure what the rule is if you're busking in the street, though.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification

[BigRedX]

As others have said, here in the UK you don't need to do anything for your song(s) to be copyrighted.

In order to work out what's best for you; what do you do with your songs currently and what would you like to do with your songs in the future?

Do you play them live reasonably regularly? If so join the PRS now!

You collect the performance royalties for playing your own songs live. For most small venues it's not a lot - only £6.00 split between all the songs played at the gig, but if you are the only band playing, all that £6 goes to you; plus the system relies on PRS members reporting the song usage and IME very few bands who do not have proper publishing deals do this. Therefore even on a multi-band gig night there is a good chance that you will be the only band reporting your song usage and therefore you'll get all of the £6.00 available. For bigger gigs and festivals the performance royalty rate can be a lot higher. It takes about 5 minutes to fill in the on-line form after each gig, but the rewards IMO are worthwhile.

Make sure that all the writer members of your band - in your case it looks like just you and the singer - join the PRS. Anyone who is credited as being a writer of any of the songs you register with the PRS will get a percentage of the royalties (although you can decide what that percentage will be). If one of the writers is not a PRS member their share goes into an "unclaimed" pot which is distributed between all the PRS members with the split decided by overall royalty earnings - so essentially people like Bono and Elton John could be getting your PRS money. Join now!

Are your EP and album releases going to be physical CDs and/or vinyl as well as downloads? And are you putting them out yourselves? If so join the PPL as a record label now! (You and the rest of your band should also join the PPL as musician members too.) This will allow you to assign ISRC codes to your recordings which (for CD copies at least) will make it easier for your radio play to be logged and therefore more likely that you will get your performance royalties from radio play.

Are you getting your CDs professionally produced? If so make sure that the IRSC codes are embedded in the tracks when whoever is mastering the recordings produces the DDP file that will be used to make the CD. If you are burning CDRs yourself use a CD writing program that will allow you to add the codes.

Radio play - especially in the UK is well worth pursuing. Airtime on BBC local radio is worth between 10p and 15p per minute of song time depending on the potential audience size. Once you get onto national radio this goes up significantly. Looking my most recent PRS figures 6 Music time is worth about £5.25 per minute of song played! Radio 1 is a lot more... More reasons to join the PRS now!


Joining fees vary depending on when you join AFAICS it's £100 at the moment. I'm sure it was only £50 at some point in the last couple of years and it has been free in the past or the fee has been deferred and then collected from your initial royalty payments. As you can see, if you are gigging regularly and get some radio play it is very easy to make back your going fee(s) in the first year of membership. Plus you continue to get performance royalties so long as your songs are being performed. I still get a few pounds worth of royalties each year from songs I recorded back in the 80s that are getting played on the radio somewhere in Japan!


Finally Sentric Music...

As someone who has had some of their songs "published" by Sentric Music. I have mixed feeling about them. Firstly I wouldn't consider them an alternative to joining a royalty collection agency like the PRS, but treat them instead as a publisher. If at some point in the future you decide that you no longer want to "publish" your songs through Sentric Music (as I believe you can) then although your songs are still registered with the PRS you won't have any way of receiving any performance royalties that they may be earning without then becoming a PRS member first. Also IME Sentric Music can be very slow in informing PRS that they are no longer the publisher and therefore they can still be collecting performance royalties from your songs well after you have terminated your agreement with them.

Also AFAICS (and from my personal experience) Sentric Music don't actively promote your songs in the way that a traditional publisher (who would mostly likely have several thousands of pounds invested in you as a writer and be taking considerably more than 20% as their share of the performance royalties). What they do is have a catalogue of songs and music that is available to TV and film producers to browse and use if they find something that they think will be suitable.

From my experience Sentric are with considering if:
1. Your songs are fairly mainstream
2. You can also supply instrumental only mixes of each song (most of the TV and film placement is as background music where lyrics might well get in the way of dialogue or the overall "mood" of the scene)
3. You have no artistic objections as to how and where your music is used

The other thing that is worth remembering is that if you assign a song to Sentric Music they will take 20% of ALL your performance royalties, not just the ones that arise from the songs being in their catalogue. Bear that in mind if you are gigging regularly, getting your songs played on the radio, but still haven't had anything placed in a film or TV program.

HTH

[lowdown]

BigRedX makes some good points above.

I joined PRS along time ago, at the time it was free. Also worth remembering that MCPS is now collected through PRS as well.
([color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The licensing of MCPS rights is handled by [/font][/color][i]PRS[/i][i] for Music).[/i]

I have looked into 'Sentric' in the past. To me, It wasn't really going to be of any advantage.
Certainly collecting overseas broadcast royalties is quicker through PRS.
Sentric advise joining PRS as well.
http://www.sentricmusic.com/blog/2015/april/frequently-asked-questions/

[mike257]

I know a fair few people who have had various TV placements etc through Sentric and have generally been positive about working with them. They're a legitimate operation, just got to decide if its right for you. Ultimately, if your recorded material isn't slick, professional sounding, broadcast quality stuff, you aren't going to get a great deal of sync placements etc so probably not worth it. If it does tick those boxes, you've got no upfront cost to get involved with Sentric (other publishers are available) so not got much to lose from it.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1478092640' post='3166670']
I know a fair few people who have had various TV placements etc through Sentric and have generally been positive about working with them. They're a legitimate operation, just got to decide if its right for you. Ultimately, if your recorded material isn't slick, professional sounding, broadcast quality stuff, you aren't going to get a great deal of sync placements etc so probably not worth it. If it does tick those boxes, you've got no upfront cost to get involved with Sentric (other publishers are available) so not got much to lose from it.
[/quote]

IME it's not just about the quality of the recording and the performance but just as much about the genre of the music. We put assigned 4 tracks to Sentric on the recommendation of several other bands who also had good experiences with them. There was nothing technically wrong with either the recording or the performance. It was simply that the music was not what Sentric's customers were looking for. We might have had a bit more luck if we had been able to supply instrumental versions as well as the full songs - it transpired later when we asked the other bands about what of theirs had been used that it was only the instrumentals.

There may be no "up-front" costs to get involved, but unless the style of music you supply is fairly easy on the ears and you have instrumental mixes available, my experience is that you are not going to get a lot of interest. In the mean time Sentric take 20% of all the performance royalties that these songs might be getting from your own gigging and promotional efforts. Also IME it took a long time for Sentric to remove their interest from the songs in question, even after we had terminated our agreement with them.

Edited November 2, 2016 by BigRedX

[funkgod]

thank you all very much for all your input and efforts.
Yall really helped, cheers
bigred, cheers for all that, it was very indepth and helpfull thanks for taking the time to do that,
top guy
im sure it will be helpfull for loads on here.

we should have a sticky on this subject, mods ?

i will have a good read through all the info sent,
keep yall posted what choices were made and why
but looking upto now like Prs is good to go.