Doing a cover video-the moral and the legal?

[Pinball]

Some advice from the great minds at BC please

I'm in an new originals band. We have no recorded sounds so in order to let people hear what we sound like we're making a couple of quick live videos. We thought we'd do one of our own songs and a cover done in our own way.

Are there any problems with putting up a "cover" video on youtube?

We don't intend to sell it or make money from it and would reference the original.

[ambient]

Check with YouTube ?

[Mornats]

I'm in Pinball's band and raised the question with him.

A few things I was thinking of was whether we'd need (or should politely ask anyway) for permission of the original artist first. I'm pretty sure YouTube would put ads on so that the original artist would get revenue from it which is totally fine with us. Whether that's because we broke the rules and is the consequence of uploading a cover, or whether it's just what happens and it's totally acceptable to upload a cover is something I'm interested in. Basically, we'd like to do it right.

I'm sure a fellow basschatter would have been in this situation themselves and could give a simple straight up answer. I'll go check on YouTube but I fear I'll end up wading through pages and pages of legalese that doesn't provide a straight answer.

Edit: first quick look gave this info:

"What happens to your account when you get a copyright strike?
We all make mistakes. When you get a copyright strike, it acts as a warning, but your account won't be penalised. However, if your live stream or archived live stream is removed for copyright, your access to live streaming will be restricted for 90 days.

If you receive three copyright strikes:

Your account will be terminated.
All the videos uploaded to your account will be removed.
You won't be able to create new accounts."

I'll hunt some more to see if uploading a cover version would gain us a strike...

Edited November 2, 2016 by Mornats

[WalMan]

I'm tempting fate, but we do covers and have had a YT channel for a few years now with an assortment of covers (funnily enough) and to date have not had a copyright hit, perhaps we've just been lucky or selected songs from bands on labels or with lawyers less like Mr Rickenbacker at hurling Cease & Desist warnings at the slightest sniff of a potential infringement. Even got a "[color=#000000][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]great job.. Rock on[/font][/color]" comment from one of the lesser known bands covered in the comments section

If I upload them I always refer back to the original artist. Whether that helps or not I have no idea ... and you know that the next thing I'll find is we've had a hit next week

[TimR]

I created a video and used music from a CD. YouTube flagged it up, knew what the music was and verified that as it was already available on YouTube that it was OK for me to use.

I'm guessing that the actual licence is with YouTube not the person who uploaded/made the video or the account holder. As long as you are not selling the actual video or song I would think you'd be ok.

[blue]

We've had covers on YouTube for years with no copywriter issues.

If it was a big deal all the cover tutorials would be taken down.

Good question though. If you dig too deep you'll likely run into someone's hand out for some cash.

Blue

[Pinball]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1478127233' post='3167057']
Good question though. If you dig too deep you'll likely run into someone's hand out for some cash.
Blue
[/quote]
Thanks for the feedback
My opinion as a writer of origonals is that I would l;ike to hear people playing my stuff. It's a tribute or recognition of your work by fellow musicians.
On the other hand if someone was making a lot of money on the back of it I would feel entitled to some of it.

No moral worries here and it sounds like no legasl worries either as our activity will be below the radar

[TimR]

[quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1478156007' post='3167117']

Thanks for the feedback
My opinion as a writer of origonals is that I would l;ike to hear people playing my stuff. It's a tribute or recognition of your work by fellow musicians.
On the other hand if someone was making a lot of money on the back of it I would feel entitled to some of it.

No moral worries here and it sounds like no legasl worries either as our activity will be below the radar
[/quote]

It will depend on the copyright holder. If you try to YouTube Beatles numbers they're pretty sparse.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Youtube have made a deal with some of the big record companies which means that you don't need to apply for sync permissions to upload cover videos of songs owned by these rights holders as youtube pays them - the big issue is that this deal is not universal to all rights holders and somewhat difficult to check exactly which material is covered under the agreement. Some google-fu should find more detail on this.

No-one is likely to call in the lawyers over a video with a handful of views, but just in case you are worried about losing your channel due to copyright strikes, you can make a new email and youtube channel specifically for that content.

[BigRedX]

It entirely depends on the rights holders for the song, which will include the publishers as well as the writers and any other interested parties depending on what has been signed by the artists in question.

In general there are three possible responses:
1. Nothing
2. Your video will be covered in YouTube ads which benefit the rights holders (as above)
3. Your video will be removed

It is almost impossible to tell which of these responses your cover will elicit, except by looking to see what has happened to other covers of the same song. If you can't find any expect it to be option 3.

[Sibob]

If it's an originals band, why would you bother with a cover? It's simply going to put your song up against something that people know, and so the perception is they prefer the song they know to your song. Pointless.
I struggle with this in an originals band I play for, they have plenty of great songs, but still insist on putting in one or two cover in as 'crowd pleasers', what a waste of a song in a set that could be used to turn people onto your music instead.

If you're a covers band looking for work, fine, I get it. If you're an originals band, I simply don't understand it.

Si

[TimR]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1478180047' post='3167322']
If it's an originals band, why would you bother with a cover? It's simply going to put your song up against something that people know, and so the perception is they prefer the song they know to your song. Pointless.
I struggle with this in an originals band I play for, they have plenty of great songs, but still insist on putting in one or two cover in as 'crowd pleasers', what a waste of a song in a set that could be used to turn people onto your music instead.

If you're a covers band looking for work, fine, I get it. If you're an originals band, I simply don't understand it.

Si
[/quote]

It increases the audience.

Unfortunately (watch XFactor) a large proportion of people are not open to new music and have to listen to a tune several times before it grows on them. On the radio new tunes are introduced alongside well known ones. If you play only unknown originals you limit your audience to a very narrow set of listeners.

Edited November 3, 2016 by TimR

[Mornats]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1478180047' post='3167322']
If it's an originals band, why would you bother with a cover? It's simply going to put your song up against something that people know, and so the perception is they prefer the song they know to your song. Pointless.
I struggle with this in an originals band I play for, they have plenty of great songs, but still insist on putting in one or two cover in as 'crowd pleasers', what a waste of a song in a set that could be used to turn people onto your music instead.

If you're a covers band looking for work, fine, I get it. If you're an originals band, I simply don't understand it.

Si
[/quote]

We do the cover as it's our own take on the song and is very different to how it's performed originally. We like playing it and it's not really an attempt to be a crown pleaser. It's a song we like, done in our style and suits our set. I also don't think the Red Hot Chilli Peppers doing a cover of Higher Ground did their original music any harm at all. We're not quite in their league to be fair but I think adding one in there can fit

I do share some of your feeling towards covers though. I was told once that if you wanted to get gigs you had to start with covers and throw in a few of your own songs which I thought was a load of b*******s to be honest. I don't want to be in a pure covers band (nowt wrong with those that do of course) but I do think that a cover done in your own style, especially if it's quite different to the original style of the song is great.

[Woodinblack]

One of my cover videos was flagged as infringing copyright, but it was the wrong copyright, it was actually a video of teenage kicks and was flagged as owned by the songwriters of 'Don't you want me baby' (Human League). I didn't realise we were that bad!
I just filled in the form that it wasn't their song and I never heard anything else about it.

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478157397' post='3167126']


It will depend on the copyright holder. If you try to YouTube Beatles numbers they're pretty sparse.
[/quote]

Really, there are hundreds of Beatles videos on YouTube. I watched the Strawberry Fields video last night on YouTube.

Blue

[BigRedX]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478181668' post='3167338']
It increases the audience.

Unfortunately (watch XFactor) a large proportion of people are not open to new music and have to listen to a tune several times before it grows on them. On the radio new tunes are introduced alongside well known ones. If you play only unknown originals you limit your audience to a very narrow set of listeners.
[/quote]

Does it really?

IME the audiences for originals and covers bands tend to be quite different.

Certainly from my perspective when I go and see originals bands it's because I like the songs that they write, and I find that when they play a cover it distracts from the rest of the set and not in a good way. I've also found that to do a cover well and to get it to fit in with the style of the rest of the songs that you have written takes as much effort if not more than writing a new song from scratch. I certainly know what I would rather be expending my energy on.