Lack of bass on monitors

[Mornats]

Hoping you guys can help me with this one.

I have a pair of M-audio BX5a Deluxe studio monitors that I'm not happy with. Problem is that they have an almost complete lack of bass. I'm trying to figure out if this is due to the monitors and their frequency range, a problem with the monitors or my room.

Here's what I've discovered so far:

Stated frequency range of the monitors: 56hz - 22,000hz

Using a range of test frequencies available here [url="http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzFvCAfIq7a2SIBfDhpCytfJ4RHVb_KLY"]http://www.youtube.c...pCytfJ4RHVb_KLY[/url] (it's a playlist so may not embed) I can hear barely anything up until 75-80hz.

My room acoustics aren't great, as per most living room acoustics. When playing the 20-20,000hz sweep from the above playlist there's nothing up to about 75-80hz, a rise in volume at 95hz, a dip around 115hz and a big dip around 145hz. I've tried moving the monitors around the room with changes happening to the above but it seems that any reduction around 95hz that I gain I tend to lose out with an added dip at 145hz. I'm doing these tests purely by ear so they're far from scientific but it's my ability to hear with my ears and not a calibrated mic that I'm interested in anyway.

Interestingly, if I move my head to the rear port I can hear 60-80hz quite well but it dies almost completely when putting my ear to the front woofer. (At this close range would room acoustics play a part in this or not?). It's not just on a sine wave, I have a track that's very bass heavy with a low pulsing bass synth in it that exhibits the same issues.

I've ruled anything else by listening to the same track and frequency sweep using the same audio interface but through my ATH-M50x headphones and there's plenty of bass there.

A few other things that may help. They sitting on isolation pads on top of speaker stands. Currently they're only 6 inches from the wall (centre of the wall looking down the longest end of the room). I've tried them all the way out to around 36 inches from the wall with only the variations I mentioned above. I've tried them almost flat to the wall too but nothing gives them bass below 80hz.

If the problem's with my monitors then I was considering upgrading them anyway but there's no point in upgrading if it's my room. On that note, I'm looking at around £350 budget with the Yamaha HS7 and KRK Rokit 6 GS3 as the forerunners. The KRKs may be best as they're front-ported but tend to be a bit more coloured than the likes of the Yamaha. I won't buy without listening first but PMT and the newly opened BopDJ in Bristol have several pairs of monitors I can listen to. Totally open to anything in my budget that sounds good.

Edit: playing a track through my hi-fi and the right amount of bass is there. This is Reaper > Asus Xonar Essence STX soundcard > Rotel RA930AX amp > Tannoy E11 speakers (6" cone compared to the 4.5" on the M-audio).

Edited November 3, 2016 by Mornats

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1478196568' post='3167499']
Hoping you guys can help me with this one.
...
[/quote]

An obvious thing to check, and I suppose you already have, but, just in case (or for others...)...
An easy check. What happens if you only connect one of the speakers..? Is the bass present with [i]one[/i], but lost with [i]two[/i]..? That's the sign of speakers being out of phase. The cure is to invert the connection wires of one (and [i]only [/i]one..!) of the speakers. Apologies if this seems too obvious; hope this helps.

[Mornats]

Actually, that's a good thing to test. (I also thought, hmm could it be my interface? Nah, same issue on my old Guitar Rig Session interface.)

So, dramatic pause whilst I check....

Nope, still a lack of bass from the front. The woofer is vibrating, just no audible lower tones from it. Thanks for the tip though, I'd not considered them possibly being out of phase.

[ambient]

The HS7s are great. I have a pair.

[Mornats]

Yeah I hear really good things about them. How have you got yours positioned? I've been reading up on them and Yamaha recommend a minimum of 1.5 metres from the wall which would put them almost centre in my room and just wouldn't work at all.

[Mornats]

I had a listen to a few sets of speaks in BopDJ and PMT today.

Over in BopDJ I tried the KRK Rokit 6 briefly before ruling them out as having far too much bass enhancement. Also tried a pair of Mackie MR6 which has less bass enhancement than the KRKs but it was still fuller and more rounded than I felt it should be on a monitor. Finally, I tried the Yamaha HS7 and the bass was spot on and they had a more bare, exposed sound to them which is just what you want in a monitor. I tried the HS5 too but they lacked bass (although had more than my M-audios).

Over to PMT and I demoed the HS5 against the Adam Audio F5 and was very impressed with the bass from the 5" cone on the Adams. They didn't have a pair of Yamaha HS7s out to test against the Adam F5 but it's down to these two for me. I still think the larger cone on the HS7 would be better than the smaller ones but the size of the Adams were more appealing and still had good bass. The Adams didn't sound as harsh and as revealing as the Yamahas but I think monitors need to be harsh and revealing.

I'm popping over to PMT with the car tomorrow and I'll see if I can get some HS7s out for an A/B test with the Adams and I'll walk away with one of those - the Yamahas are my favourite at the moment I think.

[Leonard Smalls]

I think the reason you're not hearing any bass from the M-Audios is because there isn't any!
Some manufacturers will give a quoted frequency range that's completely meaningless; if they say 56Hz - 20kHz does that mean flat? Or are these the -3dB, or -6dB or -10dB points? And what's the gradient of the frequency graph below the lowest alleged frequency? With my hifi speakers they're -3dB at 28Hz and -6dB at 18Hz...
My problem is that in my new studio room, the hifi speakers and enormous amp are just too large, so I'm going to be going for some similar monitors; I've only looked at frequency graphs and reviews as I've got no chance of listening to them, but I've narrowed it down to Adam A7X (~£900/pair), Presonus Eris e8 or e66 (£4-500ish) or Event 20/20 BAS.
All are front ported (which means they'll work against a wall), all will happily play bottom E, and all have sufficient amplifier oomph to go loud and still accurately reproduce bass, and all have an even frequency graph. I've discounted the Yams, simply because of unpleasant memories of the NS10. A full day listening to them would send you mad!
I'm tending toward the Events, because if they're anything like the Event Opals at just over £2k - which I gather they are - they'll be a steal at the price.

[Mornats]

Yeah, when I was testing them last week I couldn't hear bass when I knew there was some in there!

I actually picked up a pair of Yamaha HS7s today and have just set them up. They're very clear and fairly flat as far as I can hear. No booming bass at lower listening levels but it's there and I can hear it. When I put my ATH-M50x headphones on I can hear the thumping bass more clearly but these aren't flat headphones. I'm finding that I can get the bass right on the monitors then when I listen on the headphones it's thumping like it should on a hi-fi system.

The HS7s are a descendant of the HS10s so they're harsh (as a monitor should be?) and not for general listening or enjoyment of music. You can sure tell the difference between a well mixed some and something a numpty like me has knocked up. I totally understand why some people would hate this but it works for me

I got mine in white as they didn't have any black ones in stock so they're looking proper bling too!

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1478437707' post='3169014']
The HS7s are a descendant of the HS10s so they're harsh (as a monitor should be?) and not for general listening or enjoyment of music. [/quote]

A monitor should be as flat as possible between its frequency extremes if it's to be "perfect"...
NS10s had a particularly lumpy frequency response in order to highlight certain areas, like vocals - this is why they sounded harsh. If you could get something to sound OK on these they'd sound fine on just about anything else!
But because of their poor lower end response and general screechiness many folks would do the majority of their mixing on something that wasn't quite as tiring to listen to and just test final mixes on them.
I understand the HS7s (and 8s) are nowhere near as fatiguing, so you won't come away with a terrible headache!

[Mornats]

Little update on this. After a week of having them the sound has improved noticeably! I was a little disappointed that I couldn't hear as much bass as I did in the shop but after a few days of playing music through them it's now there! Apparently they like a bit of that mythical burn in! I also mixed my last track for the comp challenge using them and when I listened to it on my hi-fi and headphones it sounded right. Previously it sounded totally different to what it did on my M-audio's. So I'm still very please with them

Pic:

[attachment=232194:yamahas.jpg]

[Leonard Smalls]

I've been looking at the Yams too... Twas somewhere between them, the Events and the Adams.
However, I may well spend the money on an Ableton controller like an Akai APC40, plus a Behringer 250W power amp, then see how well my 1.1m high Leemas with bass down to 28Hz (-3dB) work as a nearfield monitor!

[Mornats]

It was between the Yamaha HS7 and the Adam F5 for me. I'd have gone with the Adam F7 but they were out of my budget Between the Adam F5 and the Yamahas the Yamahas won due to their flat response and the fact that they exposed the sound more. The Adams sounded nicer to listen to but I wanted that clarity over nice for mixing.