Does anyone use a 'stereo' head bass amp and two speakers?

[danonearth]

I’ve just started using headphones on my Zoom B1-on and I like the ‘stereo’ effects that come out in the headphones (I haven’t played much in headphones - mostly I just practice silently with my bass not plugged into anything, as I have housemates) and it got me wondering if anyone has experimented with using a ‘stereo’ head amp and two speakers for their bass?

Thanks!

cheers,
Dan

Edited November 8, 2016 by danonearth

[Kiwi]

I have two shuttles these days but don't/can't gig. However I used to run an Eden WT800 in stereo many years ago. Stereo isn't ideal live where there is a lot of onstage volume as the lows lose the little direction and definition they have. But I've done it anyway with stereo chorus and fretless and dialled back the bass a little. It was one of the most memorable and satisfying playing experiences I've ever had.

If you don't use stereo effects there's not really much point and the load in is so much easier.

[BigRedX]

Stereo is one of those things that sounds fantastic in headphones and much less so in situations where you can't control the listener position in relation to the sound sources.

Live, unless the majority of your sound is coming through the PA, stereo is pretty much useless from an audience PoV, and even then only a small proportion of those in the middle of the room will get anything approaching the full effect.

Also bear in mind that stereo effects or active panning in the bass end of the spectrum can make your recordings impossible to cut to vinyl, were you to want to release your music in this format.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1478682542' post='3170805']
Stereo is one of those things that sounds fantastic in headphones and much less so in situations where you can't control the listener position in relation to the sound sources.

Live, unless the majority of your sound is coming through the PA, stereo is pretty much useless from an audience PoV, and even then only a small proportion of those in the middle of the room will get anything approaching the full effect.

Also bear in mind that stereo effects or active panning in the bass end of the spectrum can make your recordings impossible to cut to vinyl, were you to want to release your music in this format.
[/quote]

+1 trying to do stereo stuff live is just an exercise in vanity especially on bass since your losing most of the stereo image at low frequencies.

[JTUK]

Bearing in mind a bridged amp of 800w will only do 400w per side. You don't get 2x400w=800w

This is the problem with bi-amping which introduces sub in the equation potentially which is really the last thing you want, IMO.

Nice idea, but in practice, no advantage at all.

[ped]

At home I play using headphones and also really enjoy stereo effects like chorus and reverb. On my fretless sim I pan each string a little and some of my synths have things going on in stereo too. Great fun but I haven't bothered live.

When I used to play at home through an amp (which I stopped doing because I didn't want to annoy anyone) I had two combos coming from my unit, one each channel on different sides of the room, tilted back. Sounded great, but I practically live in my headphones so I'm in my own little world.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478711331' post='3171124']
Bearing in mind a bridged amp of 800w will only do 400w per side. You don't get 2x400w=800w

This is the problem with bi-amping which introduces sub in the equation potentially which is really the last thing you want, IMO.

Nice idea, but in practice, no advantage at all.
[/quote]

What's that got to do with Stereo?

[stingrayPete1977]

The effect of stereo effects is an effect in itself, a mic'd guitar amp producing true stereo fx via 2 or more speakers can still be sent to the mix as a mono feed to be recorded or live to use the effect rather than a simulated sound produced by a single speaker and a stereo fx pedal, a mic'd Lesley speaker will still sound more realistic than a Lesley fx unit, you don't need the FOH pa speakers to spin to enjoy it at the back do you?

[lefrash]

I agree that some stereo effects sound lovely through earphones but in live context it loses its benefits.

Alot of people do run split signals though for dry/wet signals. This is quite useful to keep a low end and not letting your effects affect the over all sound. It's not stereo and it's normally split and joined back together before hitting the amp (with pedals) ... but not always.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478711331' post='3171124']
Bearing in mind a bridged amp of 800w will only do 400w per side. You don't get 2x400w=800w

This is the problem with bi-amping which introduces sub in the equation potentially which is really the last thing you want, IMO.

Nice idea, but in practice, no advantage at all.
[/quote]

Bi-amping has nothing to do with stereo, and IME is actually very useful if you run an effects heavy sound. Having used a bi-amped system for most of the 90s, the ability to run effects that adversely affect the bottom end of your sound such as chorus, flanger and distortion, just on the higher frequencies is amazing, you can run quite extreme effects settings and still retain plenty of bottom-end presence. The crossover frequency for this is much higher than a PA type tops and subs set up, so you don't run into those kinds of problems.

[Passinwind]

<p>[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1479302384' post='3175436']
Bi-amping has nothing to do with stereo, and IME is actually very useful if you run an effects heavy sound. Having used a bi-amped system for most of the 90s, the ability to run effects that adversely affect the bottom end of your sound such as chorus, flanger and distortion, just on the higher frequencies is amazing, you can run quite extreme effects settings and still retain plenty of bottom-end presence. The crossover frequency for this is much higher than a PA type tops and subs set up, so you don't run into those kinds of problems.
[/quote]



Yep, I used stereo and biamped rig for a while,crossed at 635Hz. But I have also run that system in many other permutations including tube guitar amps for blended distortion, satellite speakers, full range on one side and high passed on the other, vertically stacked stereo config, and so on. A DSP based speaker management system makes all those things pretty easy to do, actually.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Passinwind

[1970]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1478682542' post='3170805']

Also bear in mind that stereo effects or active panning in the bass end of the spectrum can make your recordings impossible to cut to vinyl, were you to want to release your music in this format.
[/quote]

How come?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='1970' timestamp='1479385414' post='3176106']
How come?
[/quote]

It's all to do with phase and how stereo panning makes the cutting head of the vinyl lathe move within the groove.

Stereo bass content results in large vertical movements of the cutting head and consequently the playback stylus (if you get that far) which results in skips. Essentially everything under 100Hz needs to be mono panned dead centre. You can sometimes get away with this by significantly reducing the overall volume at which your record is cut, but no-one really wants that.

Anything out of phase will cause the cutting head try and move in two different lateral directions simultaneously. That simply isn't going to happen.

Of course none of this affects digital media, but with more and more people releasing their music on vinyl, bass panning and phase is once again an important consideration.

Most stereo effects have a huge emphasis on both panning an phase differences. That's what makes them sound big, wide and impressive. The thing with bass frequencies is that without the benefits of good headphone to clue you in, they appear omni-directional and therefore all that effort is lost.

[jazzyvee]

I've used "Stereo" on a couple of occasions though my implementation does not use a crossover to split frequencies, my bass has the option of a descreet output from each pickup. This allowed me to use a separate outpbuard preamp for each pickup which then went into a QSC stereo power amp. The sound engineer decided to get DI outputs from each pre-amp and also mic'd both cabs a 4x10 and I think a I used a 1x15. On stage I can't say It sounded dramatically different to a mono implementation but out front the engineer had a field day. For convenience I prefer a mono rig but if I someone else was to carrying the cab's and rack I would try it out more. :-)

[BigRedX]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1479389450' post='3176163']
I've used "Stereo" on a couple of occasions though my implementation does not use a crossover to split frequencies, my bass has the option of a descreet output from each pickup. This allowed me to use a separate outpbuard preamp for each pickup which then went into a QSC stereo power amp. The sound engineer decided to get DI outputs from each pre-amp and also mic'd both cabs a 4x10 and I think a I used a 1x15. On stage I can't say It sounded dramatically different to a mono implementation but out front the engineer had a field day. For convenience I prefer a mono rig but if I someone else was to carrying the cab's and rack I would try it out more. :-)
[/quote]

That's not stereo at all, but 2-channel.

Stereo requires you to have to ability to be able to "pan" each sound source two any position or mix between the two amp and speaker sets.

Edited November 17, 2016 by BigRedX

[Adethefade]

Humans can't perceive stereo at low frequencies because our ears would have to be about 16 feet apart (and even where I come from that's rare) so the only stereo component of a bass guitar signal would be the effects that are used. On a concert PA, the low frequency components are best run in mono because of this, and also because it eliminates any phasing issues and makes for a 'tighter' low end.

It's also worth considering that creating a great stereo image for a live band's mix is best done by placing mono signals at different places within that image. If you start introducing a stereo guitar setup, a stereo piano, and stereo bass guitar signal then the engineer loses almost all control over the stereo image that he wants to create for the listeners. In a stripped-down pub setup, this is achieve naturally because the listener 'positions' the various band components according to their physical placement in the room.

I can't think of one musical instrument that was ever created to be 'stereo' in itself.

Yes I'm a FOH engineer, but a bass player first - I promise!

Ade

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1479394890' post='3176210']
That's not stereo at all, but 2-channel.

Stereo requires you to have to ability to be able to "pan" each sound source two any position or mix between the two amp and speaker sets.
[/quote]
[size=4]Quite! [/size]