Cosmo Valdemar Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1478687572' post='3170880'] I have no interest at all in groove, or in 'locking in' with a drummer. I prefer sound, texture and colour in music. [/quote] They aren't mutually exclusive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1478683645' post='3170818'] Truly democratic band do exist but rarely get past the jamming and messing about stage. A gigging band where each member has true equality in the bands direction, influence, set list etc would appear to be a very rare thing. [/quote] I must be in a minority; both the bands (sorry Blue, I mean Boys Nights Out) I play in are truly democratic. One gigs regularly, the other would too if we could find venues that like original music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 In my experience, democracy doesn't work in a band. All the best ones have a dedicated MD, dedicated Manager, booking agent and so on. I love having a place in a band like that actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478681741' post='3170799'] When we start out on our journey into bass, we all here those iconic bass lines and we get stuck in there. Even before we know what we're listening to is a bass guitar or DB, we're falling in love with the richness depth of that tone. A sound so deep and thick you could almost cut a slice off and... OK, maybe that's too much, but you get it. But all these bass lines are normally in a band context. So we all go down the route of buying a bass and aspiring to play with others. Speaking for myself, I did all that. Never had an amp in those days, apart from plugging the bass into a reel-to-reel tape deck and using it's output stage. It worked. It sounded like nothing on earth with tons of unhelpful distortion. I hated it. I dropped it for a number of reasons and came back to bass when I was 50. I still aspired to being in a band. I got into a band and immediately came across the egos of others. The instructions to "play only the roots" as the keys were playing the bass line. Directions from guys who clearly didn't know the rudiments of music. (Like, you don't adjust the beat to fit in with the timing of the lyrics.) The sound of the band was a cacophony. I quit. Back home I can't be bothered with the faff of mp3 players and playing along with tracks. I read cello scores and transcribe other scores and really dig the tone of a bass playing, effectively, guitar-style. It's a challenge to my ability, but it's coming on and it's a hobby. I don't need to drive all over the country. I don't have folk pulling my playing apart, letting me down. I don't have to buy and store large gear that will only get used when away from the house. I don't have drunks telling me their dad plays better (or the likes). True, others may not agree that what I do is playing bass, but it suits me. I'm trying to get my head round something from "My Fair Lady" right now. I play almost every day and it fits in with my lifestyle as I play for any odd half-hours etc that I get the chance. "Why don't I change to guitar", you might ask? I just prefer the tone of a bass guitar to the twang of the treble-clef. I'm sure I'm not alone, am I? [/quote] Your not alone, and the bedroom is the right place for some. I still contend that bands are great and being in the right band is great,bad band experiencs are not. Many go into this auditioning for bands not knowing what they want out if a band experience. They just want to be in a band. They don't define what they want and don't research the band or even try to understand or identify if they're auditioning for good stable people or flakes. Most bad band experiencs are our own fault. Blue Edited November 9, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1478701973' post='3171046'] Your not alone, and the bedroom is the right place for some.... ...Most bad band experiences are our own fault. Blue [/quote] That's it. Blame me, why don't you? Humph... and that's from a man who's buddies just put Trump into a position of power! (Good luck, good friend. I hope you recover from the shock.) I have to agree. I didn't do much research before joining that band. What I should have done is insist on meeting them before the audition and ask questions. Also, what I've not said is I have a significant shortage of time to rehearse with a band due to my job. Not being in a band does bring it's frustrations too. There are times I do wish I had the chance to play a good groove with a band and get on down and play what comes into my head and feels right to a groove. But, you can't have it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I love being in a band - even when there are issues in said band I prefer being in a band to not being in one. Luckily my current band has no issues at all, which I have to admit is the first band I`ve been in that is like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Barking Spiders' timestamp='1478689056' post='3170900'] As I've said in other posts, it's better to play with mates rather than with people you've met through wanted ads. For one they're more likely to encourage/praise rather than criticise and are more likely to be democratic. When you join someone else's band you're little more than a hired hand. Many bands have broken up over this. There've been many notorious feuds been between band members who were never friends to begin with. I'd rather not be in a band at all than join one through an ad. [/quote] I've been in a busy and one if Milwaukee's best fenale fronted progressive rock blues bar band for the past 5 years. The band has been together for 11 years I did my homework and persued the band. I knew they were making money, had a star and we're honest, good trustworthy stable people. I would never join a band that didn't have a "star". The ability to make good decisions in matching myself to bands came from years of overall band experience. I'm a paid hired hand and that's fine. Blue Edited November 9, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1478691674' post='3170934'] It's not always so bad, I joined the Wirebirds nearly four years ago through a wanted ad and I now consider the other members to be my closest friends. [/quote] Similar situation for me. I auditioned via a recommendation from a singer I was in another band with. I didn't know any of the guys and they'd all played together in various bands for over 20 years. I got the gig and we soon became good friends. There's no 'politics' and lots of good natured banter and simple respect for each other's role in the band. I really enjoy rehearsals and gigging with them. Generally my favourite days of the weeks are when we are playing together. Wouldn't change anything at all about the setup. I play at home as well, generally just having a go at learning songs I like. I rarely play completely 'solo' though. For me, the bass doesn't work as a solo instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='JohnR' timestamp='1478683776' post='3170824'] Never be a cog in someone else's machine. If you are a bass player in a band make sure to get involved in songwriting otherwise when the record deal comes around you suddenly become hired help and not on the contract. [/quote] I'm not a song writer, I don't have that ability or interest. I play bass and sing background vocals. This is a limitation I have to deal with. Blue Edited November 9, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1478703317' post='3171056'] I love being in a band - even when there are issues in said band I prefer being in a band to not being in one. [/quote] Maybe... but it depends on the individual band and their situation. If it is a working cover band and you play regularly then it is much easier to put up with the idiosyncracies of other members. Just keep your head down, play the music and take your wages. I think it is harder in original bands, where effective communication is very important to get the best out of the ideas. In general (and IME) original bands spend more time rehearsing and discussing stuff than cover bands do. In those situations you find out more about your bandmates (sometimes far more than you want to know!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I wouldn't even get my bass out of its case if I wasn't in a band. I do realise we are all different though. The tiny amounts of conflict in my current band probably all come from me. I would secretly like an increased level of friction to keep things interesting but thy're all too nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Love playing in bands, whether it's doing gigs (which can also be the worst part...once had a singer so out of it that he couldn't actually sing and the gig ended when he fell backwards into the drum kit) or simply just playing music with other people in a rehearsal studio or even just in a front room. That moment when it all clicks and you smugly nod to yourself that you are in fact a golden god... plus people rarely buy you beer or pay you money for playing by yourself at home. And it justifies me owning so much gear. and an SVT I also love the social side - my last band would rehearse in Holloway every Saturday afternoon and then head into Camden for the evening's drinking. I've never joined a band that I didn't know, I've only started ones or been asked to join by mates. Never had a huge problem with musical boundaries, but have got just as many war stories of the c#nts I've had to deal with. Beyond the talent levels, the main problems I've had with band members are largely around the level of ambition/commitment. Not necessarily to do with wanting to play the local pub vs signing with EMI and playing Wembley, more the disparity between you wanting to rehearse twice a week and play every gig offered while your drummer can't commit to anything except on Thursday nights as long as the wife doesn't have anything else arranged, and the singer who just wants to tell all his mates that he's in a band because he thinks they'll think he's cool but doesn't want to actually do any rehearsing or gigging. I've certainly had issues with huge egos, but it's usually only been a problem when it gets in the way of the band: refusing to do the songs that the rest of the band wants to do rather than the one he wrote, or insisting on changing bits of the songs because they are all better his way, etc. Beyond that I can usually put up with someone who's a complete c#nt - in fact any decent lead guitarist will be a massive one, and joyfully acknowledge the size of their ego. If it gets too much then you just quit and find another band. But if you're the one who's saying that you don't want to rehearse more than twice a month and never when Eastenders is on, then maybe you're not cut out for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1478692187' post='3170944'] Some people are just not suited to being in bands. After playing in various bands over the years & generally finding it to be a pretty miserable experience I can say that I'm one of them. I enjoy playing music with other people sometimes but I have no desire whatsoever to be an "entertainer" - I get nothing from playing in front of an audience other than the feeling that I'd rather be somewhere else. [/quote] Best case I've ever seen for not being a match for being a member of a working band. "I get nothing from playing in front of an audience" Me, love entertaining, the attention and the applause and pay for all the work I out into this. We're all different. Blue Edited November 10, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1478704611' post='3171069'] I would secretly like an increased level of friction to keep things interesting. [/quote] Ha ha! I know what you mean! In almost every other area of my life I do enjoy a bit of conflict/friction. But in a band scenario I find it counterproductive and frustrating. We all know of examples like the Who and the Stones - but it's different if that is your sole source of income and interest. For those of us who work full time and play in bands as a hobby, the conflict spoils it. It does for me, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1478703866' post='3171060'] Similar situation for me. I auditioned via a recommendation from a singer I was in another band with. I didn't know any of the guys and they'd all played together in various bands for over 20 years. I got the gig and we soon became good friends. There's no 'politics' and lots of good natured banter and simple respect for each other's role in the band. I really enjoy rehearsals and gigging with them. Generally my favourite days of the weeks are when we are playing together. Wouldn't change anything at all about the setup. I play at home as well, generally just having a go at learning songs I like. I rarely play completely 'solo' though. For me, the bass doesn't work as a solo instrument. [/quote] Must be an Oxfordshire thing, I agree 100% with everything you wrote (except the recommendation!) Though come to think of it, I joined up (strictly as a hired hand on bass) with a couple of guys last week for a string of gigs, and that came out of the blue when the drummer rang and asked if I was interested. First gig this Saturday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 There is no reason at all for you to play the way others expect. The beauty of music is that its always changing, somewhere, somehow. Listen to Jacko Pastorius or Chris Squire, they played there own way, with there own sound, and helped make the music much more interesting. You just need to find the right musicians. If that is what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1478706773' post='3171091'] Listen to Jacko Pastorius ... [/quote] Michael Jackson's pet bass-playing monkey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1478707056' post='3171097'] Michael Jackson's pet bass-playing monkey? [/quote] Could not sound any worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478681741' post='3170799'] When we start out on our journey into bass, we all here those iconic bass lines and we get stuck in there. Even before we know what we're listening to is a bass guitar or DB, we're falling in love with the richness depth of that tone. A sound so deep and thick you could almost cut a slice off and... OK, maybe that's too much, but you get it. But all these bass lines are normally in a band context. So we all go down the route of buying a bass and aspiring to play with others. Speaking for myself, I did all that. Never had an amp in those days, apart from plugging the bass into a reel-to-reel tape deck and using it's output stage. It worked. It sounded like nothing on earth with tons of unhelpful distortion. I hated it. I dropped it for a number of reasons and came back to bass when I was 50. I still aspired to being in a band. I got into a band and immediately came across the egos of others. The instructions to "play only the roots" as the keys were playing the bass line. Directions from guys who clearly didn't know the rudiments of music. (Like, you don't adjust the beat to fit in with the timing of the lyrics.) The sound of the band was a cacophony. I quit. Back home I can't be bothered with the faff of mp3 players and playing along with tracks. I read cello scores and transcribe other scores and really dig the tone of a bass playing, effectively, guitar-style. It's a challenge to my ability, but it's coming on and it's a hobby. I don't need to drive all over the country. I don't have folk pulling my playing apart, letting me down. I don't have to buy and store large gear that will only get used when away from the house. I don't have drunks telling me their dad plays better (or the likes). True, others may not agree that what I do is playing bass, but it suits me. I'm trying to get my head round something from "My Fair Lady" right now. I play almost every day and it fits in with my lifestyle as I play for any odd half-hours etc that I get the chance. "Why don't I change to guitar", you might ask? I just prefer the tone of a bass guitar to the twang of the treble-clef. I'm sure I'm not alone, am I? [/quote] But... You don't get to play with and learn from other musicians; you don't get to meet like minded people from all sorts of backgrounds that you otherwise would not have met; the camaraderie you get from being a gigging musician; you don't get the opportunity to travel the country to entertain different crowds; you don't get to make lifelong friends from people you've played in bands with or have come to watch you; you don't get the immediate reaction from an appreciative crowd; you don't get comments from punters, the vast majority of whom are massively well desposed to you for entertaining them; you don't get the mainly positive effects of low level local fame & recognition; and of course you don't get to experience the magical moments when everything clicks into place and the band becomes more than the sum of its individual members... I'm sure that there are a few other things that I've missed... Edited November 9, 2016 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 If you like playing live but hate band politics, put yourself out there as a hired gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1478683645' post='3170818'] Speaking from my own experience of bands; those that are successful are generally dictatorships, and people will either accept that, do as they're told and think themselves lucky to be in a band, or (as is the case with most people) they'll rebel against being told what to do, what to play etc, and the band will fail. Unfortunately this is the way things work I've found. Truly democratic band do exist but rarely get past the jamming and messing about stage. A gigging band where each member has true equality in the bands direction, influence, set list etc would appear to be a very rare thing. [/quote] Nope, not at all.... You just have to play with grown up people. It all works if the band works and sounds good. The buzz is making it happen, you get the respect and you look forward to doing it again. It is no use dictating unless people really really agree the dictator knows what he is doing, which is not a given.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478719613' post='3171219'] Nope, not at all.... You just have to play with grown up people. [/quote] This is in line with many of my comments. If you join a band just because you have " I want to be in a banditis "without any personal requirements or thought into what your looking for, your setting yourself up for disappointment and failure. No offence, but I'm not sure the OP understands band culture or his own responsibility in choosing a band to play in. All of his complaints can be avoided with more personal thought and preparation. Blue Edited November 9, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1478717941' post='3171201'] But... You don't get to play with and learn from other musicians; you don't get to meet like minded people from all sorts of backgrounds that you otherwise would not have met; the camaraderie you get from being a gigging musician; you don't get the opportunity to travel the country to entertain different crowds; you don't get to make lifelong friends from people you've played in bands with or have come to watch you; you don't get the immediate reaction from an appreciative crowd; you don't get comments from punters, the vast majority of whom are massively well desposed to you for entertaining them; you don't get the mainly positive effects of low level local fame & recognition; and of course you don't get to experience the magical moments when everything clicks into place and the band becomes more than the sum of its individual members... I'm sure that there are a few other things that I've missed... [/quote] Agreed Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1478707056' post='3171097'] Michael Jackson's pet bass-playing monkey? [/quote] And???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1478720768' post='3171232'] This is in line with many of my comments. If you join a band because you have " I want to be in a banditis "without any requirements or thought into what your looking for, your setting yourself up for disappointment and failure. Blue [/quote] That's interesting. So taking what's being said here in the thread. The way NOT to do it is answering small ads. So I look at the musicians I know: 1 - Mrs G who plays piano and has zero interest in performing 2 - Mrs G's brother, who's a professional classical cello player and no interest in performing anything other than classical. So the access is somewhat limited. I could start a band, but even though I'm 57 I have zero knowledge about running a band. That said, I'm no numpty, so I can imagine a lot of the logistical and marketing stuff. I would also need to invest in a PA and lights etc. The other thing I would need is time - to invest in getting the play-list together with sheets etc to hand out, marketing.... [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1478721553' post='3171242'] And???????? [/quote] Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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