The more I hear about being in a band, the more I really don't want to go there...

[JTUK]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478721625' post='3171243']
That's interesting.

So taking what's being said here in the thread. The way NOT to do it is answering small ads. So I look at the musicians I know:
1 - Mrs G who plays piano and has zero interest in performing
2 - Mrs G's brother, who's a professional classical cello player and no interest in performing anything other than classical.

So the access is somewhat limited. I could start a band, but even though I'm 57 I have zero knowledge about running a band. That said, I'm no numpty, so I can imagine a lot of the logistical and marketing stuff. I would also need to invest in a PA and lights etc.

The other thing I would need is time - to invest in getting the play-list together with sheets etc to hand out, marketing....
Exactly.
[/quote]

I'd say small ads as largely a waste of time. Not saying it never works, at all, but you might need to be prepared to sift thru a lot of dead wood.
But you need to start somewhere..........and get to know those people who play..

[TimR]

I play with a keys player who said "I like playing with you because you don't just stick to the roots and that frees up my left hand to do something other than the bass line."

Bass lines are not just 'bass' lines as you're finding out.

[alyctes]

I don't think there's anything wrong with what the OP's saying, any more than there's something wrong with being a solo cellist.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1478721553' post='3171242']
And????????
[/quote]

Do you really think his name was spelled like that? Are you also a fan of Jaime Jameson and Pohl McCartney?

[size=4] [/size]

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478721625' post='3171243']
That's interesting.

So taking what's being said here in the thread. The way NOT to do it is answering small ads.
So the access is somewhat limited. I could start a band, but even though I'm 57 I have zero knowledge about running a band. That said, I'm no numpty, so I can imagine a lot of the logistical and marketing stuff. I would also need to invest in a PA and lights etc.

The other thing I would need is time - to invest in getting the play-list together with sheets etc to hand out, marketing....
Exactly.
[/quote]
[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478681741' post='3170799']
True, others may not agree that what I do is playing bass, but it suits me. I'm trying to get my head round something from "My Fair Lady" right now. I play almost every day and it fits in with my lifestyle as I play for any odd half-hours etc that I get the chance.

"Why don't I change to guitar", you might ask? I just prefer the tone of a bass guitar to the twang of the treble-clef.

I'm sure I'm not alone, am I?
[/quote]

Hi,

there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you do, it's perfectly normal and there are thousands of musicians around the country who just love the experience of playing an instrument and the joy of learning new things. You haven't mentioned your love and knowledge of gear and restorations and tweaking you do (thanks for introducing me to the J-Retro btw) But, there seems to be a a bit of you that hankers after the band experience. I'd say don't let a bad past experience put you off.

The biggest plus is also the biggest minus IMO. People are lovely, kind generous and fun, they are also a source of all hassle. Put that to one side and there are still two good reasons for joining a band.

Making music with others is fun, joyful even. I was hooked fairly early on, I was almost the age you are now when I started, with half a dozen songs learned I was playing at my third rehearsal with some mates and suddenly I wasn't thinking about the bass any more but playing music. The sound was coming and I was no longer thinking, just playing. Magic.

Entertaining others is fun, even if it can also be a little scary at times. The buzz of watching a few hundred people dancing in time with your fingers and their excitement at the end of a gig they've enjoyed. Wow!

The thing is you can get the first experience of playing with others without having to join a gigging band. There's plenty of people out there who just enjoy the music making process, getting together with each other to play just for the love of it. I was out last night lending my bass to people with busy lives who meet up for a couple of hours a week to just enjoy playing. They'll do the odd open mic but just the joy of sharing an interest is what they are about.

Moving on to a gigging band is a big commitment. There's all the gear for sure but keeping 2 hours worth of music up to gigging standards and compromising your music to suit an audience, never mind the egos.....

The biggest problem is your job/lifestyle but I'd say make the effort might be interesting. Don't worry about the small ads thing. I've met lovely people and real ****'s in the same proportions they are in the general population that way. Open mics are a good way of meeting musicians who for whatever reason aren't gigging, and you get to hear before you buy.

I've had a lot of joy just working with a singer/guitarist as an informal duo. The bass genuinely adds to what they do and just working with one other person is so easy. You get to talk about the music, you get to try anything and in one case it made the core of a gigging band as it grew.

Hope you find what you want, and if that turns out to be what you already have then that is good too.

[lowdown]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478728859' post='3171310']
I play with a keys player who said "I like playing with you because you don't just stick to the roots and that frees up my left hand to do something other than the bass.
[/quote]

I see this written quite a lot on Basschat (not really aimed at you Tim).
Why are Keyboard players in covers bands playing Bass lines?
There are plenty of things to cover, Keyboard wise - Like the Keyboard part for example.
Or Stg/Horn section lines. If playing a cover that has no Keys part, just play light 'Pads'.
Or just drop out and come in on the chorus etc...but playing Bass lines?

[TimR]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1478766723' post='3171418']


I see this written quite a lot on Basschat (not really aimed at you Tim).
Why are Keyboard players in covers bands playing Bass lines?
There are plenty of things to cover, Keyboard wise - Like the Keyboard part for example.
Or Stg/Horn section lines. If playing a cover that has no Keys part, just play light 'Pads'.
Or just drop out and come in on the chorus etc...but playing Bass lines?
[/quote]

Usually because people are unimaginative and slaves to the original. What does the keyboard player do if you're covering a song originally recorded by a two guitar band?

There are very few bands able to deconstruct a song and write their own arrangement. Those that can are refreshing to listen to.

Doesn't just include bands with keyboards, includes any band who limit themselves to only doing covers of music where their line up matches the line up of the band that originally recorded it.

[M@23]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1478683063' post='3170810']
In a band with keys you tell the guy not to tread on your frequencies, bass is your job.
[/quote]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1478684587' post='3170839']
All the bands I have been in the musicians have been equals. If someone is going to tell you what to play and how to play it then why bother?
[/quote]

Right, gotcha.

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1478682405' post='3170803']
Band Membership 101 - Never join a band with a keyboard player unless he has lost his left arm in a tragic industrial accident.
[/quote]

This is spot on in 99% of cases. I'm fortunate in that the KB player in my band is happy to discuss what we will each do and how to avoid clashes in the low register. On the original point of the thread, playing music is (for me, admittedly, but I would contend universally) a collaborative venture.

Playing with yerself (pun intended) is a very poor substitute and of course, there is nobody to spark off of or be inspired by. When it works, it's the most satisfying thing in the world and worth the grief of when it doesn't. As for egos, we all need one in order to get up and perform in front of others. Part of the process of becoming an adult is to learn how to reach an accommodation with those we don't agree with - it applies in music as much as anywhere else.

Of course, there are always those with who one can never agree. It may not be a question of right and wrong, just difference of opinion/belief. In cases like that, just walk and look for people you can get along with, or at least reach an understanding. It's no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[magee]

I've been in bands almost constantly since I was 12, so nearly 30 years, and it's always been the focus of my playing. After the first few teenage years of teaching myself I'm not sure I've taken the bass out to play at home more than a dozen times, for maybe ten minutes at a time. So I guess I'm the exact opposite of you.

I admire what you're doing musically - it sounds hard, and satisfying. But I would advise giving playing with others another go. One bad experience (and it does sound bad) shouldn't put you off and playing with others is just great fun - musically and socially rewarding.

I've been in some really bad bands and some great ones; I've mostly played with people I don't know that well and not got on with them that well. But that's fine - rubbing along with people you don't agree with is good for you. And it's always worth remembering that the people towards the front of the stage are under more pressure and have more to lose than those of us towards the back.

What I like about bands is that it's a bit like work (you have to muddle through with people you maybe wouldn't choose to in order to achieve a common aim) but ultimately you can walk away if it gets too much without risking missing a mortgage payment. That's cathartic and satisfying. Then you get to find new people, learn all their quirks and foibles and try and make a go of the new band.

It's difficult and icky and frustrating, but also satisfying, great fun and a good way to meet new people.

I really recommend giving it another go.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1478766723' post='3171418']
I see this written quite a lot on Basschat (not really aimed at you Tim).
Why are Keyboard players in covers bands playing Bass lines?

[/quote]

Because keyboard players can easily play two parts at once, so when they play alone it makes sense for the left hand to be providing the bass part.

(I used to play a lot of piano myself, and this is of course exactly what I did.)

The tricky part is convincing them that things are different in a band situation, and that they should stop doing this.

Add to that the fact (fact? claim? opinion?) that many keyboard players are frighteningly arrogant and disinclined to listen to other musicians, and you can see why so many musicians dislike playing with keyboard warriors.

[TimR]

Singers and guitarists also commonly display that trait.

Playing in a band is a group effort where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Quite often less is more, especially when it comes to filling from keyboard players and drummers (and slap bass solos)

[HengistPod]

To the OP ... if you think of the number of bass guitars that are sold around the country, and compare that to the number of bands (and assuming we don't all own 100 basses), then you'll quickly figure that there are many people who only play at home, by themselves, in whatever way suits them. So nothing unusual there.

There is absolutely no reason to play in a band if it's not for you.

Especially not one with a keyboard player.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478767542' post='3171422']
There are very few bands able to deconstruct a song and write their own arrangement. Those that can are refreshing to listen to.
[/quote]

Surely being able to do this is basic musical skill that should come shortly after figuring out how to pluck and fret a note.

Otherwise it's just a question of "monkey see, monkey do" which isn't really music.

[chris_b]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1478792849' post='3171693']
. . . . Otherwise it's just a question of "monkey see, monkey do" which isn't really music.
[/quote]

You've just condemned all classical music, a significant proportion of ballet music and rather a large amount of the Jazz that's ever been played as "not being music".

A rather sweeping and inaccurate statement.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1478792849' post='3171693']
Surely being able to do this is basic musical skill that should come shortly after figuring out how to pluck and fret a note.

Otherwise it's just a question of "monkey see, monkey do" which isn't really music.
[/quote]

If the Terrortones videos are representative; I'd be wary of using terms such as these.
Just sayin'; no malice intended.

[timmo]

Does anyone remember Dave Swift's talk at the Addlestone bass bash? He was talking about playing with Jools Holland, and he put some embellishments in. He said Jools would raise his eyebrows and say something on the lines of it being over the top, so he didn't do it again. Seems it happens to some of the best

[blue]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478721625' post='3171243']
That's interesting.

So taking what's being said here in the thread. The way NOT to do it is answering small ads. So I look at the musicians I know:
1 - Mrs G who plays piano and has zero interest in performing
2 - Mrs G's brother, who's a professional classical cello player and no interest in performing anything other than classical.

So the access is somewhat limited. I could start a band, but even though I'm 57 I have zero knowledge about running a band. That said, I'm no numpty, so I can imagine a lot of the logistical and marketing stuff. I would also need to invest in a PA and lights etc.

The other thing I would need is time - to invest in getting the play-list together with sheets etc to hand out, marketing....
Exactly.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment about joining a band.

Blue

[Grangur]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1478720768' post='3171232']
This is in line with many of my comments.

If you join a band just because you have " I want to be in a banditis "without any personal requirements or thought into what your looking for, your setting yourself up for disappointment and failure.

No offence, but I'm not sure the OP understands band culture or his own responsibility in choosing a band to play in.

All of his complaints can be avoided with more personal thought and preparation.

Blue
[/quote]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1478804640' post='3171831']
I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment about joining a band.

Blue
[/quote]

Sorry Blue. I was simply saying I thought your post was interesting.

I was saying your post is interesting (The first one quoted here) What I didn't say was why I find it interesting. I think this sums up my situation quite well. Bands I would be attracted to join would generally be ones playing what i might consider to be simple music I can handle and cope with learning in the limited time I have available to me to learn the numbers. What's wrong with this it that sort of music doesn't really light my fire. So it would really be a case of "joinabanditis".

The other stuff I wrote was simply general comments from reading other posts in the thread. I apologise for any confusion.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1478803758' post='3171821']
Does anyone remember Dave Swift's talk at the Addlestone bass bash? He was talking about playing with Jools Holland, and he put some embellishments in. He said Jools would raise his eyebrows and say something on the lines of it being over the top, so he didn't do it again.
[/quote]

What he actually said was that Jools would say "that was all a bit Weather Report wasn't it?" which is a lovely phrase.

[size=4] [/size]

[timmo]

Ahh . I knew it was something along those lines

[blue]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478806605' post='3171842']




Sorry Blue. I was simply saying I thought your post was interesting.

I was saying your post is interesting (The first one quoted here) What I didn't say was why I find it interesting. I think this sums up my situation quite well. Bands I would be attracted to join would generally be ones playing what i might consider to be simple music I can handle and cope with learning in the limited time I have available to me to learn the numbers. What's wrong with this it that sort of music doesn't really light my fire. So it would really be a case of "joinabanditis".

The other stuff I wrote was simply general comments from reading other posts in the thread. I apologise for any confusion.
[/quote]

No problem, cool.

Just to reiterate, to all beware of "joinabanditis".

Only entertain opportunities that are a match for you personally.

Blue

[Dan Dare]

To quote an old Jewish saying, don't take it so heavy. Look at joining a band in a similar light to joining a sports club or similar. Sure, you might gel/improve and win a major trophy/get on telly/get famous/get laid, but try to enjoy the journey and then win or lose, you win. "Joinabanditis"/joining a band for its own sake/for the fun of it is perfectly valid and needs no justification. Lighten up, peeps.

[blue]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1478875680' post='3172319']
To quote an old Jewish saying, don't take it so heavy. Look at joining a band in a similar light to joining a sports club or similar. Sure, you might gel/improve and win a major trophy/get on telly/get famous/get laid, but try to enjoy the journey and then win or lose, you win. "Joinabanditis"/joining a band for its own sake/for the fun of it is perfectly valid and needs no justification. Lighten up, peeps.
[/quote]

I've never heard that saying.

Absolutely not.

Joinabanditis means joining any band with no thought put into it or no questions asked. Just join a band so you can say your in a band.

And it's certainly is not valid for those looking for more than fun.

Joining a band without a plan or an
understanding of what you want or what the band has to offer does not lead to fun, it leads to disappointment and a negative band experience.

Your "don't take it so heavy" approach is actually why many younger musicians develop a dislike of bands and playing in bands.

Blue

Edited November 11, 2016 by blue

[Kitsto]

I came late to playing in a band and only did so after I'd retired. It was a lifelong ambition having been obsessed with rock music as a kid. I always imagined it to be an ideal way of life. I feel very fortunate. I am in a great band with musicians far better than me who are tolerant and let me play my own bass lines.

But even though we are a happy band I've learnt (not least from mates of mine in other bands) that they can be toxic environments. Pete Townshend said that a band is a bizarre thing. In no other walk of life do you work with the same small group of people doing the same thing for the whole of your career. By contrast I'm in an amateur gigging band without the pressures of a pro band. But maybe some of the frictions you get in 'real' bands can rub off on the rest of us too.

It helps if you get along as people. The band I'm in treats it as a social experience too. We've become friends and do things together (such as going to see 'real' bands together) which all helps. One key rule is that we all set up and pack up all the gear together. Each doesn't just look after his own stuff.

But I'm still learning that I need to be more accommodating and accepting of others - and that's a good lesson when you're my age and otherwise in danger of becoming a sad old git.