Mark III Trace AH250

[BassInThePlace]

So I would like some info on this very old amp. I play a Mark V AH250 on a regular basis at a rehearsal studio and blows almost every other amp I play out the water, but i've got the option of buying a mark III and I was wondering what people think of this amp in terms of second-hand cost, sound, and how difficult it might be to service for parts - it is pretty old after all. It doesn't look like much, but I know from experience that i'd rather play an old beaster that's got a monster sound than a brand spanker that sounds like sh*t.

Cheers in advance.

[4000]

[quote name='BassInThePlace' post='304742' date='Oct 12 2008, 11:57 AM']So I would like some info on this very old amp. I play a Mark V AH250 on a regular basis at a rehearsal studio and blows almost every other amp I play out the water, but i've got the option of buying a mark III and I was wondering what people think of this amp in terms of second-hand cost, sound, and how difficult it might be to service for parts - it is pretty old after all. It doesn't look like much, but I know from experience that i'd rather play an old beaster that's got a monster sound than a brand spanker that sounds like sh*t.

Cheers in advance.[/quote]

My favourite heads are the old Traces. I haven't got one currently but the best head I ever had was an early AH150. It was loud as hell for the wattage, really compact and easily transportable and I've yet to hear anything that sounds better. Most people I come across don't rate them but for what I do I've never found anything I like more.

[BassInThePlace]

[quote name='4000' post='304789' date='Oct 12 2008, 01:05 PM']My favourite heads are the old Traces. I haven't got one currently but the best head I ever had was an early AH150. It was loud as hell for the wattage, really compact and easily transportable and I've yet to hear anything that sounds better. Most people I come across don't rate them but for what I do I've never found anything I like more.[/quote]

Yeah - opinion is pretty divided with Trace in my experience. some find them really unreliable, some have no problems whatsoever. Imo, it all comes down to the era of the amp, the 80's being the 'golden age' of TE stock.

That's why i'm interested in opinions of this MkIII AH250 as it was was probably manufactured in the 70's, and I have no info on TE amps from this time......

I'm specifically interested in the second-hand cost of one of these units - I know a MkV AH250 will easily fetch £300 if in good condition, but i'm not so sure about the MkIII.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='BassInThePlace' post='304821' date='Oct 12 2008, 01:45 PM']Yeah - opinion is pretty divided with Trace in my experience. some find them really unreliable, some have no problems whatsoever. Imo, it all comes down to the era of the amp, the 80's being the 'golden age' of TE stock.

That's why i'm interested in opinions of this MkIII AH250 as it was was probably manufactured in the 70's, and I have no info on TE amps from this time......

I'm specifically interested in the second-hand cost of one of these units - I know a MkV AH250 will easily fetch £300 if in good condition, but i'm not so sure about the MkIII.[/quote]

I'm not a true expert on Trace (did have a Mk V stack whilst I was still at school - prezzie from family for doing well in me exams - never had pocket money as a kid you see!) but the very first Trace rigs appeared around about 1980 - founded originally at Soundwave in Romford. I'd hazard a guess that the MkIII would have been made around '83 ish! I still hanker after a really old one - just to have one in the studio for those late night `Level 42' moments! Rob Green at Status has one (very old 4 x 10 combo) in his assembly room - sounds incredible!

[Thunderhead]

The old Traces are great - I think the peak for both tone and reliability was the MkV series, but they're all good up to and including Series 6. (Actually my current AH200 is a Series 6.) There's no particular service issue with any of the older ones in that they use pretty standard parts, but they ARE definitely getting on a bit and you can expect some issues. Be careful of ones that have a history of repair work - the circuit boards are sometimes damaged (including by poor workmanship) and they can be difficult to make really 'right'. The graphic EQ sliders in the really old amps are a size which aren't too easy to get these days either.

Unfortunately after Series 6 the bean counters got in charge and progressively ruined Trace until they came out with some really poorly designed and built crap in the 90s (particularly most of the guitar amps), some of which sounded good but none of which were really reliable, and unfortunately that even applies to the last valve bass amps - including the mighty V8, sadly. The warranty returns must have become a major liability, having seen the failure rate that I did as a tech back then. You'll also notice that the older amps sound louder in proportion to their rated power than the later post-Series 6 models.

I don't know for certain since I'm not connected to the company, but I saw the warning signs on my workbench long before the buy-out by Gibson, and I don't think the popular version that Gibson 'ruined' Trace Elliot is at all correct - if anything, Trace did it to themselves and Gibson had to pick up the pieces, especially on things like transformer replacements and then a re-design on the Velocette/GoldTone guitar amps, and eventually sold the brand on again. Happily the new Peavey-made amps look a lot better, I've seen precisely one failed one so far (with a blown mains transformer though).

Edited October 12, 2008 by Thunderhead

[redstriper]

I'm just adding my experience to the pot.

I think I have an AH 150, I say 'think' because it doesn't say anything about the model or wattage apart from GP11 on the front, which is the pre amp.
It was part of a 1115 combo bought new in 1985 and I have recently removed the amp head and re housed it in a plywood sleeve to reduce the weight of the combo.
I also replaced the Fane driver with a new Eminence neo unit to further reduce weight, but I digress.............

The amp is excellent and has never had a problem in 23 years of regular use.
I have tried lots of other amps and done many direct comparisons and I have not found anything that can give me the deep smooth tone that I get from this amp.
It is very loud for the rated output and is more than enough for the 450 watt 8 ohm 15" speaker that I use with it.

I would have no hesitation recommending a TE amp of this vintage, providing it has been looked after and the GP11 pre amp is first class.

[Thunderhead]

[quote name='redstriper' post='304960' date='Oct 12 2008, 07:02 PM']I'm just adding my experience to the pot.

I think I have an AH 150, I say 'think' because it doesn't say anything about the model or wattage apart from GP11 on the front, which is the pre amp.
It was part of a 1115 combo bought new in 1985 and I have recently removed the amp head and re housed it in a plywood sleeve to reduce the weight of the combo.
I also replaced the Fane driver with a new Eminence neo unit to further reduce weight, but I digress.............

The amp is excellent and has never had a problem in 23 years of regular use.
I have tried lots of other amps and done many direct comparisons and I have not found anything that can give me the deep smooth tone that I get from this amp.
It is very loud for the rated output and is more than enough for the 450 watt 8 ohm 15" speaker that I use with it.

I would have no hesitation recommending a TE amp of this vintage, providing it has been looked after and the GP11 pre amp is first class.[/quote]The power amp number was probably written on the back in one of the little green boxes, but the writing usually fades. Do you remember seeing if it has two or four power transistors, when you had it apart? If two, it's a 150 (most likely if it came out of a combo) and if it has four it's a 250.

You can also tell by the speaker fuse value, 5A for a 150 and 8A for a 250, but the writing often fades away too. (This is a brilliant piece of design that all solid-state amps should have by the way - just last week I fixed a 150 combo that some idiot sound engineer had plugged a DI box into the second speaker out of - I'm not sure exactly what then happened but the amp's speaker fuse blew, which means that if it hadn't, probably in any other amp it would have taken out the power transistors instead. 10 seconds and 35p to fix it, instead of an hour's work and a few pounds in parts. I didn't even charge the customer, I never had to move the amp into the workshop!)

I've also compared one of these amps to a new 600W Ashdown, through the same cabinet, and the AH150 held its own - seriously. It had much more punch and dynamics, and although it probably wouldn't quite shift as much air it would certainly stand up at least as well in a mix. It just sounded better, too...

Edited October 12, 2008 by Thunderhead

[BassInThePlace]

Cheers for the responses fellas - seems like I don't really need to discriminate because of the age of the amp then eh?

I've actually got the option of an H&K BassBase 400 as well, but I can't find much info on it. I'll just need to play them both, though if my past experience with TE is anything to go by, the decision should be pretty easy.

Ta much.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Thunderhead' post='305081' date='Oct 12 2008, 10:22 PM']The power amp number was probably written on the back in one of the little green boxes, but the writing usually fades. Do you remember seeing if it has two or four power transistors, when you had it apart? If two, it's a 150 (most likely if it came out of a combo) and if it has four it's a 250.

You can also tell by the speaker fuse value, 5A for a 150 and 8A for a 250, but the writing often fades away too. (This is a brilliant piece of design that all solid-state amps should have by the way - just last week I fixed a 150 combo that some idiot sound engineer had plugged a DI box into the second speaker out of - I'm not sure exactly what then happened but the amp's speaker fuse blew, which means that if it hadn't, probably in any other amp it would have taken out the power transistors instead. 10 seconds and 35p to fix it, instead of an hour's work and a few pounds in parts. I didn't even charge the customer, I never had to move the amp into the workshop!)

I've also compared one of these amps to a new 600W Ashdown, through the same cabinet, and the AH150 held its own - seriously. It had much more punch and dynamics, and although it probably wouldn't quite shift as much air it would certainly stand up at least as well in a mix. It just sounded better, too...[/quote]

Thanks for the information, I have been trying to find out more about this amp with little success.
The original owner's manual doesn't mention the amp power !
It does have the serial number, which is H4143.
All the writing on the back has faded away, but I'm pretty sure it's a 150, there are 2 big blue round things inside, which I presume to be the power transistors.
Can you tell me the mains fuse value ?

To return to the original poster's question - I don't know if it's a Mark 3, 4 or 5, (how can you tell)?

As far as I know the 1st Traces appeared in the late 70s, but were not generally available until 1980 when the GP11 pre amp was introduced to great aclaim - Norman Watt Roy of the Blockheads is still using his since buying it new in 1980.

I recently compared it side by side to 3 new amps - Hartke LH 1000, Ashdown ABM 400, Markbass 450 and an ancient Selmer Treble n' Bass 50.

I wouldn't change it for any of those, but if I had to choose one of them, it would be the Selmer which was the loudest of the lot.
It seems like the older the amp and the lower the power, the louder and fuller the sound !

It's surprising to me how little the sound of bass amps has improved in the past 25 years - IMHO.

[Thunderhead]

[quote name='redstriper' post='305606' date='Oct 13 2008, 04:40 PM']Thanks for the information, I have been trying to find out more about this amp with little success.
The original owner's manual doesn't mention the amp power !
It does have the serial number, which is H4143.
All the writing on the back has faded away, but I'm pretty sure it's a 150, there are 2 big blue round things inside, which I presume to be the power transistors.[/quote]No, those are the filter caps. The power transistors are the silver things - a sort of round dome on a lens-shaped base - on the bracket at the left-hand end as you look at it from the front.

[quote]Can you tell me the mains fuse value ?[/quote]T2A for a 150 and T3A (T3.15A in modern spec) for a 250. You do need to make sure they are T (Time lag, AKA slow-blow or anti-surge) type or they will sometimes blow on power-up even with no fault. The speaker fuse is marked as a F (fast blow), and these DO occasionally blow for no real reason. I have been known to substitute a T fuse for customers with odd cabinets that can do it (eg 6x10" Ampegs and other things with unusual impedance curves)... but I wouldn't normally recommend that, the designer will have used the F type for a reason. Never increase the fuse value to stop it blowing, either - it means something else will fry instead.

[quote]To return to the original poster's question - I don't know if it's a Mark 3, 4 or 5, (how can you tell)?[/quote]I can't remember the exact details of the early amps, but it looks like a Mk4 to me. Definitely not a MkV.

[quote]I recently compared it side by side to 3 new amps - Hartke LH 1000, Ashdown ABM 400, Markbass 450 and an ancient Selmer Treble n' Bass 50.

I wouldn't change it for any of those, but if I had to choose one of them, it would be the Selmer which was the loudest of the lot.[/quote]Valve amps do sound much louder for their rated power than solid-state, but even so I find that surprising! Those old Selmers are not even the loudest 50W valve amps...

Edited October 13, 2008 by Thunderhead

[BassInThePlace]

[quote name='Thunderhead' post='305704' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:57 PM']I can't remember the exact details of the early amps, but it looks like a Mk4 to me. Definitely not a MkV.[/quote]


AH250 MkIII doesn't have the effects loop.

You can usually tell the difference between MkIV and MkV owing to the slightly different aesthetic features such as front-panel Output dial and effects loop location.

Just like Thunderhead says, yours looks like a MkIV red.

MkIII:
[attachment=14725:AH250MkIII.jpg]

MkIV:
[attachment=14726:AH250MkIV.jpg]

MkV:
[attachment=14727:AH250MkV.jpg]

Edited October 13, 2008 by BassInThePlace

[redstriper]

[quote name='Thunderhead' post='305704' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:57 PM']Valve amps do sound much louder for their rated power than solid-state, but even so I find that surprising! Those old Selmers are not even the loudest 50W valve amps...[/quote]

Thanks again, do you know where I can buy spare fuses - these haven't been replaced in 23 years and it might be a good idea to have a couple of spares just in case.

The Selmer was mad loud and incredibly full sounding.
My 15" speaker could barely cope with it and I felt like it needed a lot more speakers to handle it.
To be fair, it probably wasn't louder than the Hartke LH 1000 or maybe even the others, but it was the only one I felt likely to blow the speaker out of the cabinet if I turned up the volume and it just felt like a Harley compared to 3 mopeds.

The Trace is still my favourite because it has 'my' sound and it works well with the single 15 for most of the gigs I do.

The combo speaker cab is a quirky Trace design, narrow with an internal panel behind the driver and a massive front flared port.
I was told that a more modern and larger cab would sound better, but having tried lots of other small cabs I still prefer this one and I wonder where all the advances in cab design from the past 1/4 Century have actually got us!

The more modern gear I try, the less impressed I become.

[redstriper]

[quote name='BassInThePlace' post='305732' date='Oct 13 2008, 07:35 PM']AH250 MkIII doesn't have the effects loop.

You can usually tell the difference between MkIV and MkV owing to the slightly different aesthetic features such as front-panel Output dial and effects loop location.

Just like Thunderhead says, yours looks like a MkIV red.[/quote]

Very interesting - it's nice to know what I've been playing through - a MkIV AH 150 and very nice too

I decided to look for a new rig recently after finding that I ran out of volume at mid sized gigs where there is no PA.
My tone is deep bass with no treble or upper mid and the speaker was distorting at higher volume levels.
I was advised to get a more powerful amp, but having tried quite a few I found the speaker still distorted at the same volume level.
The answer is more likely to be in adding another speaker and running the amp at 4 ohms, which is probably my next step.
That way I can keep the sound I like and just get that bit more volume, I'm not sure whether to go for another 15 or a 2 x 10, or even a 4 x 10, but I don't want it to be too heavy and it needs to match the 15 for volume.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Thunderhead' post='304919' date='Oct 12 2008, 05:49 PM']most of the guitar amps), some of which sounded good but none of which were really reliable, and unfortunately that even applies to the last valve bass amps - including the mighty V8, sadly.[/quote]
There were a few problems reported with the early ones namely blown fuse holders and the valve biasing tolerances needed revising but these are very minor niggles. Everyone I know who owns one has been perfectly happy with theirs. Mine was one of the last, has been totally trouble free and I've regularly gigged with it.

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='redstriper' post='305606' date='Oct 13 2008, 04:40 PM']All the writing on the back has faded away, but I'm pretty sure it's a 150, there are 2 big blue round things inside, which I presume to be the power transistors.
[/quote]
This is identical to the head I've got in my 1984 4x10 combo. That also has two things (MOSFETs) and is 150w but like you say, LOUD. There should be a date written in the power amp section (the back part) if you unscrew it. My amp tech remarked how smooth and clean these heads sound.

[redstriper]

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='305836' date='Oct 13 2008, 10:38 PM']This is identical to the head I've got in my 1984 4x10 combo. That also has two things (MOSFETs) and is 150w but like you say, LOUD. There should be a date written in the power amp section (the back part) if you unscrew it. My amp tech remarked how smooth and clean these heads sound.[/quote]

Smooth is the operative word, other amps have more growl but I love the clean warmth of this amp.
I think the smoothness comes from the pre amp because I've slaved other amps from it and they seem to adopt the same character.
I fed a new Hartke LH 1000 from the Trace pre amp and it sounded fantastic, far better for me than using the Hartke on it's own.

Mine is from a 1985 1 x 15 combo, (I have the original receipt from Monkey Business in Romford) and I still use it with the old cab, I would be interested to try it with a 4 x 10 to compare tone and volume.

[Thunderhead]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='305753' date='Oct 13 2008, 08:06 PM']There were a few problems reported with the early ones namely blown fuse holders and the valve biasing tolerances needed revising but these are very minor niggles. Everyone I know who owns one has been perfectly happy with theirs. Mine was one of the last, has been totally trouble free and I've regularly gigged with it.[/quote]Well, the two I've worked on both had blown and replaced main rectifier diodes (before I worked on them), bridged/repaired circuit traces where the originals had burned out, issues with the pots cracking their joints because the whole thing is badly designed with the entire preamp circuit board suspended from the (very low quality) pots and the jacks, plus nylon standoffs further back which make the whole thing flex as the transformers bounce up and down on the slightly too flimsy chassis, and stresses the front panel joints with every single movement. PCB-mounting pots is not inherently bad, but it must be done such that they are isolated from other forces - ie mounted on a board which is small, light and NOT connected to anything else. Likewise nylon standoffs are a GOOD thing when done properly because they allow movement and reduce shock on the board, but NOT in conjunction with other PCB-to-chassis parts - this is an absolute requirement in proper electronics design for mil-spec applications etc. The design and build quality is almost exactly like the very cheap guitar amps and low-end bass amps they made at the same time, not what should be inside a thousand-pound-plus professional bass head.

It's good to hear you've had no trouble with yours (yet), but on the strength of only two that I've seen, BOTH with problems, I am in no hurry to own one. It's sad to have to say that because they're one of the best-sounding amps I've played through.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Thunderhead

[cheddatom]

[quote name='redstriper' post='305751' date='Oct 13 2008, 08:05 PM']The answer is more likely to be in adding another speaker and running the amp at 4 ohms, which is probably my next step.
That way I can keep the sound I like and just get that bit more volume, I'm not sure whether to go for another 15 or a 2 x 10, or even a 4 x 10, but I don't want it to be too heavy and it needs to match the 15 for volume.[/quote]

Or just get a very loud 4 ohm 1 x 15" cab?

Edited October 14, 2008 by cheddatom

[Merton]

[quote name='BassInThePlace' post='305732' date='Oct 13 2008, 07:35 PM']MkIII:
[attachment=14725:AH250MkIII.jpg]

MkIV:
[attachment=14726:AH250MkIV.jpg]

MkV:
[attachment=14727:AH250MkV.jpg][/quote]
What a brilliant bit of Trace history! Anyone got any pics of MkI or MkII??

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Thunderhead' post='306017' date='Oct 14 2008, 09:25 AM']Well, the two I've worked on both had blown and replaced main rectifier diodes (before I worked on them), bridged/repaired circuit traces where the originals had burned out, issues with the pots cracking their joints because the whole thing is badly designed with the entire preamp circuit board suspended from the (very low quality) pots and the jacks, plus nylon standoffs further back which make the whole thing flex as the transformers bounce up and down on the slightly too flimsy chassis, and stresses the front panel joints with every single movement. PCB-mounting pots is not inherently bad, but it must be done such that they are isolated from other forces - ie mounted on a board which is small, light and NOT connected to anything else. Likewise nylon standoffs are a GOOD thing when done properly because they allow movement and reduce shock on the board, but NOT in conjunction with other PCB-to-chassis parts - this is an absolute requirement in proper electronics design for mil-spec applications etc. The design and build quality is almost exactly like the very cheap guitar amps and low-end bass amps they made at the same time, not what should be inside a thousand-pound-plus professional bass head.

It's good to hear you've had no trouble with yours (yet), but on the strength of only two that I've seen, BOTH with problems, I am in no hurry to own one. It's sad to have to say that because they're one of the best-sounding amps I've played through.[/quote]
Its too bad you don't have a record of the serials, it might actually underline the point I made about early models. I'm sure the other two owners on this forum will chip in with their experiences too. I'll open up mine some time this week and cross check your comments against what I uncover. It might be interesting to see if there are any signs of movement in the PCB mountings or cracking solder joints so thanks for the heads up. I've already had problems with similar poor component layout in a non-trace sub woofer I used to own.

[lushuk]

Just to carry on from thunderheads post, ive got the newer peavey made stuff and have not had a blip so far, although some people dont like the tone it means you can get used trace stuff real cheap! I think there a loads of tones you can get from this set up and I guess its made by peavey so it cant be all bad! can it? So give it a whirl its as cheap as chips
Eddy

[Thunderhead]

[quote name='redstriper' post='305743' date='Oct 13 2008, 07:50 PM']Thanks again, do you know where I can buy spare fuses - these haven't been replaced in 23 years and it might be a good idea to have a couple of spares just in case.[/quote]Maplin Electronics is probably your easiest, unless you have a small independent electronics/hobbyist type shop where you live.

[quote]The Selmer was mad loud and incredibly full sounding.
My 15" speaker could barely cope with it and I felt like it needed a lot more speakers to handle it.
To be fair, it probably wasn't louder than the Hartke LH 1000 or maybe even the others, but it was the only one I felt likely to blow the speaker out of the cabinet if I turned up the volume and it just felt like a Harley compared to 3 mopeds.[/quote]Valve amps often have that sort of sound - they have much lower damping than solid-state amps, which means the speaker is freer to move when the amp DOESN'T tell it to! So it can get a bit out-of-control sounding and woofy when pushed hard. This is one reason they sound loud too, but it doesn't always translate into real volume in a mix because it tends to muddy things up as well. For guitar, where the notes are much further away from the resonant frequency of the speakers, it makes them sound nice, but for bass it doesn't work as well. This is one reason many valve bass amps work best with smaller speakers, and some (eg the Ampeg SVT) were purposely designed with a tightly sealed cab to provide the damping itself (their 8x10" is actually four sealed 2x10"s in the same outer box). Solid-state amps are capable of controlling larger speakers much better.

[quote]The combo speaker cab is a quirky Trace design, narrow with an internal panel behind the driver and a massive front flared port.
I was told that a more modern and larger cab would sound better[/quote]Hahahaha . Those old flare-front Trace combos sound fantastic. It's a highly efficient as well as great-sounding cab that really makes the most of the relatively low power of the amp and the single speaker. Good luck finding anything more modern that does as well, let alone better .

[quote]I wonder where all the advances in cab design from the past 1/4 Century have actually got us!

The more modern gear I try, the less impressed I become.[/quote]Smaller and lighter cabs with greater power handling and a cleaner and more even frequency response, mostly. Laudable goals in a technical sense, but do they actually SOUND better? I don't think so either really...

That's why I still use an old 200W Trace and a giant Mesa cab I can barely move! Which makes the amp sound about twice as loud as any more modern cab I've run it through, plenty to gig with even with an amp considered underpowered by modern standards... but which I would still probably like to replace with a smaller two-cab rig when I can find the right ones - I'm getting old and the thing weighs as much as I do (literally).

Edited October 14, 2008 by Thunderhead

[redstriper]

Thanks again for the info T Head, it explains why the Selmer valve amp felt like a wild stallion compared to the ss amps.

BTW - can you tell me the mains fuse value for my TE AH 150 ?

I was recently advised that the Trace combo is outdated and ineficient and that I would get more deep bass and volume from a modern lightweight rig.
I tried markbass, aguilar, ashdown, epiphani, hartke and bergantino amps, cabs and combos, none of which had the warmth or volume of deep bass as the old trace.

So I removed and re-housed the head and fitted a neo driver which at least means I can get it in and out of the car single handed.

I still yearn for more oomph at bigger gigs with no PA and am considering adding another speaker - maybe a 2 x10 or another 15.
It would be nice to get the sound and feel of an Ampeg 8 x 10 (my favourite cab) in something I can carry.

Can you suggest anything that might do the job, bearing in mind that I play reggae and need a deep warm and punchy sound ?

Which mesa cab do you use ?
Maybe I should forget the arthritis and just go large !

[Thunderhead]

[quote name='redstriper' post='306604' date='Oct 14 2008, 08:17 PM']BTW - can you tell me the mains fuse value for my TE AH 150 ?[/quote]T2A.

[quote]I was recently advised that the Trace combo is outdated and ineficient and that I would get more deep bass and volume from a modern lightweight rig.
I tried markbass, aguilar, ashdown, epiphani, hartke and bergantino amps, cabs and combos, none of which had the warmth or volume of deep bass as the old trace.[/quote]That's how I feel too - wonder what it is the 'new guys' are hearing? Not the same as what we are, anyway .

[quote]I still yearn for more oomph at bigger gigs with no PA and am considering adding another speaker - maybe a 2 x10 or another 15.
It would be nice to get the sound and feel of an Ampeg 8 x 10 (my favourite cab) in something I can carry.[/quote]That's going to be difficult. The sheer mass of that cab is part of the tone - the 4x10"s they do sound similar but weigh a ton too.

Really, it would probably be as cheap and no more weight just to buy another old Trace combo (they did 4x10"s in the same series) and link them together .

[quote]Which mesa cab do you use ?[/quote]I think it's called a 1516, or something - it has a 15" 300W EV, a 10" 150W EV, two 6" 75W Eminences and a treble horn (which is blown, so I don't use it). The way it's hooked up is either crude or clever, depending on how it was thought up! There is no crossover, it relies on the different impedances of the drivers and their natural tonal response to split the power and the frequencies correctly - but this means it has none of the efficiency losses or phase errors that you get with crossovers, so it's very loud and direct-sounding - and although it's 'full range', it's certainly not 'hi-fi'. It's the same basic cab as Paul McCartney uses, but his is the 'soft trim' version (because it will be flightcased), and mine is the one which IS the flightcase! - it has the hard-faced ply, steel edges and stuff actually part of the cab. Which no doubt makes it even heavier - I'm not a big guy and it weighs exactly the same as me (135lbs), which makes it a real bind to move since I can't lift it without leaning right back, and it has some of the most uncomfortable handles I've come across too - even between two people it's a pain. So it rarely leaves the house, which kind of defeats the point... and I end up using whatever cab the venue or the other band has, which is usually less than ideal.

I have been thinking about a pair of Trace cabs from the same series as my AH200 - a 1x15" and a 2x10"+2x5" - which should be perfect in theory, but they're surprisingly heavy too, especially the top cab - they also have internal baffles, and they're made of MDF which is denser than ply (and which I don't really like, either - it seems a bit toneless). So I may go back to the older ply-series cabs which I had with my former MkV AH250, which I sold because it was getting a little rough, the fan was starting to grate, and the little Series 6 AH200 was very nearly as loud for half the size and weight... except that it isn't, quite - it's not bad but still lacks a little of the huge depth and fullness of the old one.

Either that or I'll just go completely over the top and find an early AH500 . There is still nothing like the tone of the old Traces, to me.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Thunderhead

[BassInThePlace]

So I got my MkIII AH250. Came with a thunderous cab as well - 15''+18'' speakers and full flight case.

What a sound - it's [i]exactly[/i] what I was looking for.