Jazz basses, what's the point?

[drTStingray]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479166659' post='3174536']
killers first album, within 20 seconds of the first song you can tell they are a jazz bass using band .... if you want to play Motown use a p, if you want to play 70s funk use a jazz ... just use what sounds right to your ears for the music you're playing.
[/quote]

Your last phrase is about right - to be honest as many played 70s funk on P basses as J basses and on Stingrays or Alembics in the late 70s - cases in point - I saw both the Brothers Johnson and Rose Royce live in around 1979 and both bass players used Alembic (series 1 I think) - yes Louis Johnson! Pops Popwell played a Jazz with The Crusaders - same era - and sounded fabulous in a different way - they all shared a common factor - stunningly brilliant playing.

Nate Watts recorded I Wish on a J bass and Sir Duke on a P bass - however both were recorded through studio Alembic pre amps, so not really passive instruments at all. And he recorded Do I Do on a Stingray.

As you said use what suits you and sounds best in your hands - we obsess too much over equipment - different people sound great in the studio on different basses, there is not a one make or instrument fits all.

I think there's definitely a current fashion for Precisions to be used in pop music - however coincidentally there are lots of moans from bass players that modern music sometimes has inaudible bass - not sure if there's a coincidence there........ some people say any recording engineer worth their role can get a decent bass sound with any professional level instrument played competently - I would have thought anyone who has to get a decent sound from a drum kit should find recording a bass a relatively simple task - and a simple task to get it to sit in the mix in the way the producer or artists require - regardless of make, provided the player is competent.

Edited November 15, 2016 by drTStingray

[AdamWoodBass]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1479150694' post='3174376']
I agree that Jazz basses are more versatile, but (and this is a serious question) when do you actually get to use the sounds it is capable of? I've never played slap in my life (been playing over 40 years) and I can't imagine a situation in a gigging pub & club band where the rear pickup 'Jaco' sound would be of any use.

I bought my Jazzes because of their versatility, but I really haven't found a situation in which it is of any use.
[/quote]

Whereas I've played a lot of jazz, funk and fusion gigs which have required slap and the Jaco tone also fits great with a funky 16th groove so a Jazz has been perfect in these situations. I agree though, in most situations you probably wouldn't ever need a good slap tone or the rear pickup Jaco tone because the music just doesn't require it. Depends on what music you play really I guess. For example with rock stuff I'd pick a P-Bass over a Jazz.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1479198278' post='3174601']
Whereas I've played a lot of jazz, funk and fusion gigs which have required slap and the Jaco tone also fits great with a funky 16th groove so a Jazz has been perfect in these situations. I agree though, in most situations you probably wouldn't ever need a good slap tone or the rear pickup Jaco tone because the music just doesn't require it. Depends on what music you play really I guess. For example with rock stuff I'd pick a P-Bass over a Jazz.
[/quote]

I suspect you've put your finger on it there, I always feel I *should* have a Jazz bass to use, but in fact the music I have been playing over the years has never really suited them. I'm keen to get rid of stuff I don't use, so will be glad to see them go now I have no reason to keep them. The chance of me changing genre now is very slim indeed! Especially now that I am confined to pick playing only.

[mcnach]

[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1478945216' post='3172837'] I hear you. I took my old P and my new Mike Lull to a biggish (for me anyway!) dep gig last weekend in front of a few hundred people. I was itching to use the Lull and it sounded fantastic in soundcheck. Then I got the old P out for comparison and it just sounded great - big and full, just right blend of thump and attack, and the band basically said "yeah use that one!" That's not being ordered around - that's just offering a choice to people. I'd have been happy too if they'd preferred the Lull but for that particular music, the P has always fitted it better. [/quote]

exactly.

some people get too precious about "their tone" or feel too insecure about receiving suggestions.

I've seen that with guitarists quite a few times, where either a humbucker or a single coil based guitar was preferred by the band. In fact the guitarist would often bring the matter up for discussion. While I have my own personal preferences based on sound and feel, ultimately it's about what sounds best in the band. I won't be 'dictated' what to use, but we should listen to the opinion of the rest of the band too and not be so precious. We're not even talking about being suggested to buy a new instrument, but about choosing an instrument from the ones we use already.

[spectoremg]

[quote name='thegummy' timestamp='1479159569' post='3174460']
Even if it was a Fender Custom Shop Esquire?
[/quote]Same problem all Tele's have - fugly.

[thegummy]

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1479239613' post='3175015']
Same problem all Tele's have - fugly.
[/quote]

lol you're entitled to your opinion but I think a lot of people would disagree with you on that

[FinnDave]

Teles are a great example of the beauty inherent in simplicity.

[peteb]

I think that the thing is that many people think of a P bass when they think of an electric bass, both in terms of sound and image

[BigRedX]

[quote name='thegummy' timestamp='1479159569' post='3174460']
Even if it was a Fender Custom Shop Esquire?
[/quote]

The only good thing about a CS Esquire is that I could sell it to some mug and buy something good looking and more comfortable to play with the money.

There's nothing wrong with a single pickup for guitars - my first guitar only had one, although that was because I could only afford a single Di-Marzio when I was building it, and my current favourite guitar, the Hallmark Wingbat, has just the single P90 style pickup by the bridge, but still sounds great.

I'm not so sure about basses though, all the ones I use at the moment have 2 or more pickups.

[mcnach]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1479301808' post='3175431']
The only good thing about a CS Esquire is that I could sell it to some mug and buy something good looking and more comfortable to play with the money.

There's nothing wrong with a single pickup for guitars - my first guitar only had one, although that was because I could only afford a single Di-Marzio when I was building it, and my current favourite guitar, the Hallmark Wingbat, has just the single P90 style pickup by the bridge, but still sounds great.

I'm not so sure about basses though, all the ones I use at the moment have 2 or more pickups.
[/quote]

That goes to show how we're all different!

Basses? one pickup I'm happy. Stingray preferably, but Precision works well too for me. But on guitar I play a lot with the different sounds you get from different pickups, 2-3 pickups always. I had single pickup guitar for years, it was a great guitar... but I felt its limitations too strongly and let it go.

[paul_c2]

Electric guitar has a different role - and/or is often required to perform a number of roles. Yes, some people don't exploit this and simply want a guitar to have one good sound - so a single pickup guitar will suit them. Many want an electric guitar to have a variety of sounds though, hence the popularity for 2+ pickup positions. Bass generally has one role, thus one (good) sound can be good enough.

[spongebob]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1479150694' post='3174376']
I agree that Jazz basses are more versatile, but (and this is a serious question) when do you actually get to use the sounds it is capable of? I've never played slap in my life (been playing over 40 years) and I can't imagine a situation in a gigging pub & club band where the rear pickup 'Jaco' sound would be of any use.
[/quote]

I enjoyed this point.

I've had the same thing in the past - a bass that can do a lot, but only use a little. I kept dialling in P bass type-tone when I had a Jazz, or I had trouble cutting through a full band. Great for big bands with big rigs and racks of pre-amps.

I play my Ricky with one tone in mind (not necessarily the one everyone thinks), I don't change it from song to song. Same with any bass - they may do a lot, but when I'm gigging, it's me playing, I'm not trying to re-create anything. I can't think of a reason to - most players I hear have their live tone, and don't adjust it song-to-song.

[drTStingray]

This is a very interesting set of recorded comparisons which show the differences well (between P and J and also how much perceived volume you lose with both pick ups on full on a jazz)

http://youtu.be/x6Cd98DH__U

[bazzbass]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1478878969' post='3172354']
Now don't get me wrong, I love the aesthetics of a Jazz bass, and I love the sound when I play them alone (as you do when trying them out in a shop...) but whenever I turn up to play with a band and get one of my JBs out, they always ask if I've brought a P bass with me, as no matter who I play with, they always prefer the sound of the Precision.

So I have a Fender Classic 60s Jazz, nitro finish, lovely beast, and a new US Standard Jazz both sitting in cases upstairs and I never get to use them in anger.

Is this a common experience? I suppose in an ideal world I'd meet someone with a pair of little-used Precisions because they always play Jazzes and we could arrange a swap!

Glad I got that off my chest, now back to learning tomorrow's set....on a Precision!
[/quote]

My first post here, just wanted to chime in and say you should play what you want to play, how dare they dictate your instrument choice !

Am I the only one who thinks a Jazz Bass with just the neck pickup and played close to the neck sounds pretty darn tootin close to a P?

[FinnDave]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1479360667' post='3175918']
My first post here, just wanted to chime in and say you should play what you want to play, how dare they dictate your instrument choice !
[/quote]

If you read the whole thing, I take both and offer them a choice, often after playing each of them for a few numbers, and the choice is always Precision. It's not like they are laying down the law (I'd be out of there in a flash of they tried that), but no one ever chooses the Jazz.

I reckon Jazz basses sound great when you try them in the shop, but for regular band use, it's the Precision every time.

[chris_b]

So do you want to gig the Jazz?

If you do and want the band to be happy with your sound maybe an outboard preamp, like the Sadowsky, will give the J some extra oomph which will enable it to compete with the Precision.

[FinnDave]

Nope, my US Jazz is going today, and being replaced with another Precision. I have no desire to complicate things with preamps and other electronic wizardry, I like to just plug in and play, life's too short to fiddle with preamps or effects.

I need to remember that just because a bass sounds great in the shop, it doesn't mean it'll work with the type of bands I play in.

[BigRedX]

Besides there's already a pre-amp on your amp.

[SH73]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1478878969' post='3172354']
Now don't get me wrong, I love the aesthetics of a Jazz bass, and I love the sound when I play them alone (as you do when trying them out in a shop...) but whenever I turn up to play with a band and get one of my JBs out, they always ask if I've brought a P bass with me, as no matter who I play with, they always prefer the sound of the Precision.

So I have a Fender Classic 60s Jazz, nitro finish, lovely beast, and a new US Standard Jazz both sitting in cases upstairs and I never get to use them in anger.

Is this a common experience? I suppose in an ideal world I'd meet someone with a pair of little-used Precisions because they always play Jazzes and we could arrange a swap!

Glad I got that off my chest, now back to learning tomorrow's set....on a Precision!
[/quote]
I mostly play p bass but find jazz bass more versatile and larger tone scale. I think it cuts through other instruments more than p bass so they don't like that.

[paul_c2]

After reading 4 pages, I'd like to hear some comparison recordings with a Jazz bass and Precision bass.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1479383745' post='3176081']
Besides there's already a pre-amp on your amp.
[/quote]

Yep, best place for it, with a couple of valves an all!

[FinnDave]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1479383963' post='3176084']
I mostly play p bass but find jazz bass more versatile and larger tone scale. I think it cuts through other instruments more than p bass so they don't like that.
[/quote]

It may be heresy to say so, but in my opinion, the role of bass is to support, underpin, the rest of the band, not to cut through. That is certainly the case for the sort of music I have always played.

[SH73]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1479384210' post='3176087']


It may be heresy to say so, but in my opinion, the role of bass is to support, underpin, the rest of the band, not to cut through. That is certainly the case for the sort of music I have always played.
[/quote]
It's nothing worse than seeing a live band to hear bass thud thud thud, no matter what bass plays low or high tones.
I think the Bass should be heard clearly not just thud thud... and if the guitar player plays solo there is a boost pedal.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1479384612' post='3176096']
It's nothing worse than seeing a live band to hear bass thud thud thud, no matter what bass plays low or high tones.
I think the Bass should be heard clearly not just thud thud... and if the guitar player plays solo there is a boost pedal.
[/quote]

Come and see one the bands I play in and tell me whether the bass is just going 'thud thud'. I don't think it will be!

Edited November 17, 2016 by FinnDave

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1479199835' post='3174619']
exactly.

some people get too precious about "their tone" or feel too insecure about receiving suggestions.

I've seen that with guitarists quite a few times, where either a humbucker or a single coil based guitar was preferred by the band. In fact the guitarist would often bring the matter up for discussion. While I have my own personal preferences based on sound and feel, ultimately it's about what sounds best in the band. I won't be 'dictated' what to use, but we should listen to the opinion of the rest of the band too and not be so precious. We're not even talking about being suggested to buy a new instrument, but about choosing an instrument from the ones we use already.
[/quote]

I reckon I've had more comments from bandmates on gear choices when playing guitar than when playing bass. It tends to be more over effects than instruments, like the fuzz that no-one liked, or the flaky old tape echo that a couple of bandmates seem to be disappointed if I don't bring.
On bass, I've had far less feedback from bandmates. Although come to think of it, I did pick up an Ashbory bass a few years ago, and both of the bands I was in at the time hated it! That didn't stay around for long...