arthurhenry Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) How is it that songs with chord sequences such as I, V, IV and I, V, VI, IV continue to be written and recorded? Surely any songwriter or artist with any integrity or artistic worth would avoid such overused, over-familiar changes in favour of something less cliched. Edited November 12, 2016 by arthurhenry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 because they work, people like familiarity, and it's the melody line that goes with them that's important, having said all that it is nice to stick the odd rouge chord in, strangely the Ramones were very good at that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visog Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 It's an opportunity to put your creative stamp on an established structure - a 4th plinth if you will. That said, I never want to hear a jazz player rehearsing their II V Is and expecting people to pay to hear it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Who cares about the chords. Is the song any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) The vast majority of songs that have achieved classic status have used fairly mundane chord progressions, I suppose theres a good reason for that. So, I think the opposite of what you say is true - those with real song writing talent don't need to use obscure chords/progressions (they may choose to do so but its not a prerequisite). Edited November 12, 2016 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 What "makes" the music good, isn't necessarily the chord progressions, but the way the instruments and other sounds play together over those chords. For example, listen to some of the Tom Tom Club stuff, they deliberately stayed away from complex chord progressions, some songs only having one or two chords - yet the sound is brilliant and has earned them popular acclaim and success. V --> I works for fairly obvious reasons once you know your music theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I guess its the same as painting. Here is a picture of a face - can you do something with it that makes it fresh. Chord sequences are only a part of the deal. The arrangement, timbres, vioces, melody, rhythm etc etc will all conspire to create a whole that is greater thatn the sum of it's parts. THAT is the Art of it. Being original is, in some ways, easier than sounding fresh using old material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 . . . . because it's the melody, words and voice that matters in a song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) For me, instantly recognising a familiar chord sequence takes away from the effect of the lyrics and melody. If I wrote something which fitted a I, V, VI, IV progression, I'd scrap it, as I couldn't bear to be that predictable. Edited November 12, 2016 by arthurhenry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478953847' post='3172915'] For me, instantly recognising a familiar chord sequence takes away from the effect of the lyrics and melody. If I wrote something which fitted a I, V, VI, IV progression, I'd scrap it, as I couldn't bear to be that predictable. [/quote] Do you have any examples of this wonderfully unique & original music made only by you that you can share with us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL5uQfKPSBg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkyqRP8S93Y Same chord sequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478953847' post='3172915']For me, instantly recognising a familiar chord sequence takes away from the effect of the lyrics and melody.[/quote] If people were worried about the chord sequences you've used then you haven't written a very good song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478953847' post='3172915'] For me, instantly recognising a familiar chord sequence takes away from the effect of the lyrics and melody. If I wrote something which fitted a I, V, VI, IV progression, I'd scrap it, as I couldn't bear to be that predictable. [/quote] That's fine if you're writing music for people to stroke their beards to. But most people who listen to and enjoy music don't even know what a chord progression is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1478951616' post='3172892'] I guess its the same as painting. Here is a picture of a face - can you do something with it that makes it fresh. Chord sequences are only a part of the deal. The arrangement, timbres, vioces, melody, rhythm etc etc will all conspire to create a whole that is greater thatn the sum of it's parts. THAT is the Art of it. Being original is, in some ways, easier than sounding fresh using old material. [/quote] Eloquently put. The underlying chords are just a vehicle for the melody/riff/hook that makes a good song - at least they do in Western music. There are of course exceptions, but the majority of pop and rock songs will have some sort of chord sequence and usually familiar ones as they "work" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) It's not the chord changes or sequences giving you a headache. The Melody is dictating where they go, the chords are just harmonising. Want a better, more interesting chord sequence? Write a better, more interesting Melody. Not so easy now, is it? Good luck with it, it is difficult. EDIT: Bilbo makes a couple of good points in his post. Edited November 12, 2016 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrash Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I IV V VI chords are the basis for a massive percentage of contemporary music. I'm currently learning a set of pop covers for a dep gig and its amazing how many actually break down to basically these 4 chords. I wouldnt say its a bad thing; I think they just work nicely together, and they sound/feel right. For me, its what people do over the chords that make it stand out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 A great songwriter can make the simplest, off the shelf, chord structure, into a great song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1478964880' post='3173023'] A great songwriter can make the simplest, off the shelf, chord structure, into a great song. [/quote] This. When I'm listening to songs I love I'm not even aware of the chord structure. I'm always surprised by just how simple lots of my favourite songs are when I try & learn them on guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1478964880' post='3173023'] A great songwriter can make the simplest, off the shelf, chord structure, into a great song. [/quote] Completely true, however, some songwriters take the most overused, off the shelf chord structures and turn them into dull, formulaic fodder for the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) Why write a song at all? If you have something to say and you want others to hear it then deliberately challenging them with unusual sounds makes no sense. Most music is about shared experiences, ideas, or just good old entertainment. It's for the many not the few. If you want to have a musical conversation limited to other musicians then fine, they may well get what you are saying but it is going to be music about music only. Nothing wrong with that, but not for me thanks. Looked at another way you have 8 notes in your scale, 2,3,4,5......16 beats to the bar, rests, key changes, verse, chorus pre-chorus, bridge, coda, fills, turnarounds, chord inversions...... That all gives you a few lifetimes of non-repetition even with four chords. For me modern classical music has lost it's way a little in comparison, the urge to try the new and different means a lot of more recent 'serious' music comes across as academic exercise and possibly elitist. Lacking mass appeal it has ossified, lacking the freshness of popular music even though the palette is more limited. The back catalogue is pretty good though. Edited November 12, 2016 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478940772' post='3172801'] How is it that songs with chord sequences such as I, V, IV and I, V, VI, IV continue to be written and recorded? Surely any songwriter or artist with any integrity or artistic worth would avoid such overused, over-familiar changes in favour of something less cliched. [/quote] [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1478964880' post='3173023'] A great songwriter can make the simplest, off the shelf, chord structure, into a great song. [/quote] [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478969529' post='3173059'] Completely true, however, some songwriters take the most overused, off the shelf chord structures and turn them into dull, formulaic fodder for the masses. [/quote] Which is somewhat different to your initial post. Artists with integrity and artistic worth will continue to make great songs from the simplest of chord structures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1478944657' post='3172833'] Who cares about the chords. Is the song any good? [/quote]what he said. Edited November 12, 2016 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478969529' post='3173059'] Completely true, however, some songwriters take the most overused, off the shelf chord structures and turn them into dull, formulaic fodder for the masses. [/quote] And some songwriters take the most convoluted, left-field chord structures and turn them into dull, formulaic fodder for the elite. Edited November 12, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I blame the consumers. If only they were better musically educated they wouldn't be misusing their buying power to strangle creativity. The bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1478976712' post='3173120'] I blame the consumers. If only they were better musically educated they wouldn't be misusing their buying power to strangle creativity. The bastards. [/quote] [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1478976074' post='3173113'] And some songwriters take the most convoluted, left-field chord structures and turn them into dull, formulaic fodder for the elite. [/quote] That's more like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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