Overused chord sequences and artistic merit

[CrackerJackLee]

In the music of the old school days, chord progressions were secondary. And there are only a limited number of possibilities, anyway. With the advent of the guitar bands, progressions became too important, due to the limited instrumentation. Most new music sounds the same because the progression has become too dominating.

In the seventy years before the Beatles, the attraction for the audience was the singer, the lyrics and melody combination, the show or movie from whence it came, and the brass or string orchestra arrangement. Having a record collection, I can play along with the greatest music and musicians of all time. Even though the progressions are very cyclic, the arrangements and bass lines vary immensely.

Edited November 13, 2016 by CrackerJackLee

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='CrackerJackLee' timestamp='1478978759' post='3173142']
In the old days, chord progressions meant little. And there are only a limited number of possibilities, anyway. Today music has dumbed down considerably. With the advent of the guitar bands, progressions became important, due to the limited musical abilities of the instrumentation and the songwriters. That's why all new music sounds the same today. Lot's of technology: little talent.

Back in the seventy years before the Beatles, the singer was the attraction, the lyrics and melody combination, the show or movie from whence it came, the brass or string orchestra arrangement. But due to a lack of education and child rearing skills, today's movers and shakers have become big cry-babies living in their mother's basements wearing short pants, ball caps, tee shirts and running shoes and texting gibberish about Trump. They are still waiting for an adult to show them the way.

Listening to riky-tiky garbage from non-western countries and the filthy obscene non-music-rap, they have not furthered their own music. Chasing after poseurism instead of talent gets you a photo-op! Luckily I have a huge record collection. I can play bass, double bass, guitar or plectrum banjo with the greatest music and musicians of all time. CD collections are limited to the same songs Downloaded music is only the new garbage. I kept my turn-tables. So I wouldn't be held hostage to the "music biz" CEO's.

Just the idea of the American Trump Riots should inform anyone of the uselessness of today's crowd.
[/quote]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjA9uJ2dFCI

[warwickhunt]

ENOUGH... leave well alone and step away from this blasphemous talk of songs other than I IV V IVm. Aside from the huge number of fabulous songs with those chords, many of us are able to dep at the drop of a hat based upon this choice of chord.

[josie]

As a blues fan, I love the huge range of vocal melody lines, overall instrumental textures, tempos, and moods that are all best anchored by a basic 12-bar I-IV-V bassline. (Comes in useful in a jam, too )

My originals mostly have melody lines that just play with a pentatonic scale. The lyrics tend to be quite detailed, and need a melody that will be somewhat familiar, or at least comfortable, so as not to compete with them for attention.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1478976074' post='3173113']
And some songwriters take the most convoluted, left-field chord structures and turn them into dull, formulaic fodder for the elite.
[/quote]
Avoiding I, IV, V and I, V, VI, IV does not mean deliberately being left field and convoluted. How about I, I, I, I, I, I, I etc. for example?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478985554' post='3173200']
Avoiding I, IV, V and I, V, VI, IV does not mean deliberately being left field and convoluted. How about I, I, I, I, I, I, I etc. for example?
[/quote]

Disco, huh..? As a drummer, I'm all too familiar with the 'One, one, one, one...' Big Beat.

[Luulox]

[

Edited November 12, 2016 by Luulox

[blue]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478940772' post='3172801']
How is it that songs with chord sequences such as I, V, IV and I, V, VI, IV continue to be written and recorded? Surely any songwriter or artist with any integrity or artistic worth would avoid such overused, over-familiar changes in favour of something less cliched.
[/quote]

People love familiarity and simple.

Blue

[lowdown]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1478940772' post='3172801']
How is it that songs with chord sequences such as I, V, IV and I, V, VI, IV continue to be written and recorded? Surely any songwriter or artist with any integrity or artistic worth would avoid such overused, over-familiar changes in favour of something less cliched.
[/quote]

I wouldn't knock it. You ain't had it so good. A lot of the guys on this board wouldn't even be playing in bands, if it wasn't for these duff composers and their silly little chord sequences.
Fancy a whole night of 32 bar, chord a beat Jazz changes? What about busking your way through Enigma variations? or the 1812 overture?
What about this with a refrain? You know how hard it is to get good keyboard players? Ukulele players ain't exactly growing on trees (hanging from them maybe)
Stop being silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEymZ3rXOmc

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1479043952' post='3173472']
I wouldn't knock it. You ain't had it so good. A lot of the guys on this board wouldn't even be playing in bands, if it wasn't for these duff composers and their silly little chord sequences.
Fancy a whole night of 32 bar, chord a beat Jazz changes? What about busking your way through Enigma variations? or the 1812 overture?
What about this with a refrain? You know how hard it is to get good keyboard players? Ukulele players ain't exactly growing on trees (hanging from them maybe)
Stop being silly.

[/quote]
"In favour of something less cliched" was my comment; not "In favour of something more complex."

[lowdown]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1479048638' post='3173513']
"In favour of something less cliched" was my comment; not "In favour of something more complex."
[/quote]

I was kinda joking, Arthur. In a funny way I did agree with you.
But then, I was thinking back over a lot of chart tunes through the decades that I liked. And I couldn't think of that many with the cliched chord sequence(s) you were talking about.
The first half dozen or so were not even close.

California Dreamin'
Wake up Everybody
Don't leave me this Way
MacArthur Park
One Day I Fly Away
Street Life
Never Too Much
Africa
I could go on and on...All with Combinations of Minors, Sus 2 or 4, Extensions, Inversions. Chromatic Bass lines.
But then again you did say "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]continue to be written and recorded", so I presume you are talking about in the very recent past?[/font][/color]

Edited November 13, 2016 by lowdown

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1479048638' post='3173513']

"In favour of something less cliched" was my comment; not "In favour of something more complex."
[/quote]

This is your big chance to suggest something new and shiny/non cliched that we can all plagiarise for the next 50 years...

[Guest MoJo]

It's been posted before but ......

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I[/media]

[leschirons]

It's what else happens in a song. Armed with Em, C, G and D and an acoustic guitar (albeit not exactly) you can entertain friends and family with songs by Jessie J, Alex Hepburn, The Cranberries, Pink, Jason Mraz, Black eyed peas, George Ezra and a few hundred others. All these songs are different due to the melody, tempo, production, voice, what instruments are used, how they're used and by whom. The main thing is, depending on your point of view, they're all good and successful numbers.

[PaulWarning]

To paraphrase the late great Reg Presley (him of the Troggs) "anybody can write a song but it's the magic dust that makes it a hit, but nobody knows what the magic dust is" how simple is Wild Thing? great song though

[Barking Spiders]

I am 100% with the OP on this one though unfortunately the big labels have done their homework and know that tried and tested formulas and 'safe' music sells.

[tinyd]

IMHO, a lot of creativity in general comes from working within constraints. For music, this is why different genres exist i.e. each genre has a certain set of assumptions about how the music sounds and is made. Of course, those assumptions change over time as the music evolves, but it takes skill (and time) for this to happen. But all of the great innovators who've really pushed music in different directions have always started with the same fundamentals as everyone else.

Also, people tend to get very hung up on the melodic and harmonic side of music - rhythm and groove are at least as important. James Brown tunes tended to be relatively static in terms of chords, but what he did rhythmically was hugely influential. Similarly, a lot of pop tunes that I hear now use vocal phrasing taken from Jamaican Dancehall, even if the chord progressions are pretty standard.

[markstuk]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1478976712' post='3173120']
I blame the consumers. If only they were better musically educated they wouldn't be misusing their buying power to strangle creativity.

The bastards.
[/quote]

:-)

[TimR]

Someone with more theory will help me out but:

Say you're playing in C major. The only other major chords available to you are Fmaj and GMaj. The IV and V.

You could play minor chords but that really affects the mood of the song.

All the 'other' chords you bolt into a song after those 3 are really just inversions with added notes or passing chords leading to one of the three.

.

Edited November 14, 2016 by TimR

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1479129703' post='3174120']
Someone with more theory will help me out but:

Say you're playing in C major. The only other major chords available to you are Fmaj and GMaj. The IV and V.

You could play minor chords but that really affects the mood of the song.

All the 'other' chords you bolt into a song after those 3 are really just inversions with added notes or passing chords leading to one of the three.

.
[/quote]

A lot of songs from various different genres also use the VIm (so Am, in this case) without dramatically altering the mood, but yes, strictly speaking you're out of other major chords once you've used the I, IV and V - it depends how loyally you want to stick to the scale.

Not sure I follow your point about the 'other' chords though. Granted there are plenty of common notes between the IIIm and the I, for example - there's only a 'C' between Em and Cmaj7, but there's nothing to stop you sticking in an Em in your progression. Unless I've misunderstood your post?

[lowdown]

You are not restricted to major chords of a particular scale. I think that is the point of the OP.

Nothing at all stoping you adding a Bb major into a tune written in the key of C major.
Or a D major chord for a tune written in E major. Fleetwood Mac's ' Don't Stop' springs to mind.

Or playing Bb and Eb major chords in a tune written in the key of C.
'Can't Get Enough', Bad Company.

[TimR]

Have a look at some Elton John songs. They're horrendous for the number of chords he throws in. However, they're usually resolved into an I, IV or V fairly quickly. Are they strictly a chord progression or are they just created from passing notes?

[paul_c2]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1479129703' post='3174120']
Someone with more theory will help me out but:

Say you're playing in C major. The only other major chords available to you are Fmaj and GMaj. The IV and V.

You could play minor chords but that really affects the mood of the song.

All the 'other' chords you bolt into a song after those 3 are really just inversions with added notes or passing chords leading to one of the three.

.
[/quote]

True - if you were sticking to diatonic chords only.

BUT you don't need to, in fact departing from diatonic chords in itself adds some interest. For example you could play C major, Eb major, F major, G major. Obviously Eb major isn't diatonic, indeed Eb is not even in the scale.

You could also throw in Ab major for a similar effect.

When I am sight reading some music, an accidental is great because it often "sticks out" in the music and provides a useful check that you're in the right place (especially after 17 bars rest, etc).

But then, this thread is about how music can be interesting without interesting harmony......