Watts don't mean a whole lot

[Jazzjames]

This is well trodden ground, but I can confirm that watts mean next to nothing. We already knew this of course, if you need more volume, get more air moving with more speakers. However....

The 500w from the Hellborg absolutely crushes the Tonehammer (also 500w) for depth and presence. You can actually set it quieter than the tonehammer because the notes are so persuasive.

I've used SVTs plenty of times and know how muscular they sound, but I always put a lot of that down to the 810.

With the 2 DB112 cabs this setup really sounds fantastic and it really is a big improvement on the already great sound of my tonehammer 500.

The moral of the story: watts and other ratings don't tell the whole story, try before you buy!

[JapanAxe]

I don't think you'll find too many people to disagree with you here!

[Jazzjames]

And i'm not looking for a disagreement either, i've just never seen this first hand in such extremes.

[markstuk]

sort of hard to make a judgement unless you have a detailed knowledge of the gain structure...

but it does appear that the general consensus is that the TH500 lacks heft..

[Jazzjames]

I wouldn't say it lacks it, it has plenty of punchy and chewy round sound at low to mid volume, and I love it for that. And it can maintain it even up to quite high volumes. Then it can go a fair bit louder still, but, while still audible, it doesn't support like it does at the lower volumes. Whereas my new toy hits like a sledgehammer if that's what you want!

[Kev]

The TH500 is definitely one of the weaker Class D amps in my experience . Certainly, the weakest in terms of perceive 'heft' (I hate that damn term!) out of those iv tried. Although rated much higher, the Tecamp Puma 900 was much, much louder with much more presence. The Darkglass M900, rated the same as the Puma, is much louder and punchier again. Big differences between class D heads!

Edited November 13, 2016 by Kev

[Chienmortbb]

Watts are precisely defined when it comes to DC power. 1 watt is 1 watt. In fact a watt is well defined for AC power. 1 watt is 1 watt.

As an Electronic Engineer that spent some time in a Marketing Departmet I can tell you that every branch of electronics has one Parameter that is stressed above all others. One that does not give you a clue as to how it will perform.

For projectors it is Lumens for amplifiers it is Watts. Then the scary marketeers get hold of the spec, add Little Red Riding Hood, Goldilocks and Mother Goose and suddenly we know not what is fantasy and what is truth.

So I agree with you that watts do not mean much when applied to amplifiers. This is because they need several qualifiers to make the figure meaningful.

Also remember that model numbers are not power specs. TC model numbers deliberately decieve by giving a "wattage" in the model number that is far higher than they can achieve. They are by no means the only ones.

Oh and did someone mention heft? When I can measure it I will believe it exists.

Yes I am tired, slightly unwell and fractious.

[Lozz196]

Although they`re not the loudest amps I`ve used, Ashdown ABMs seem to have the most solid presence of any that I`ve used, the sound just seems to slam into you. I find I have to push the volume on them much more than on other makes I`ve used, but once there the sound is very full. I also found this when trying out their Rootmaster amp. In comparison to my Tonehammer it had more solidity to the sound. But then I use a Sansamp to get all the solidity I need, on top of the sound I want as I really like the eq/gain/voicing of the Tonehammer. The Sansamp set flat just beefs it all up. Makes gigging with provided rigs easy as well - Sansamp and Tonehammer DI into whatever, my sound instantly.

[Kevin Dean]

I look at the features of the product & weight & go & hear it for myself in a gig situation if possible & that's it .I also find The Ashdown stuff has a lot more of everything as I 've A/Bd a lot of them .

[M@23]

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1478976774' post='3173121']
I wouldn't say it lacks it, it has plenty of punchy and chewy round sound at low to mid volume, and I love it for that. And it can maintain it even up to quite high volumes. Then it can go a fair bit louder still, but, while still audible, it doesn't support like it does at the lower volumes. Whereas my new toy hits like a sledgehammer if that's what you want!
[/quote]

That's how I felt. It sounded cool at lower volumes. It went loud, but not pretty when it got there. Great DI though. Probably a much more useable amp if I had decent PA support more often.

[Dan Dare]

I bought a cheapo speaker cab to use as the loan rig for a jam (not going to risk my PJBs). The bloke I bought it from demo'd it with a SVT head. Sounded fabulous.

[KF2B]

Agreed. I also have a Hellborg power (mono 250)/pre going onto an Aguilar cab (DB285JC) and it crushes beyond any other amp that I´ve tried regardless of the "tiny" nominal wattage.

[Dan Dare]

There's an interesting parallel with hi fi amplifiers in that some with apparently low wattage output can deliver much more oomph than those which should, on paper at any rate, be more powerful. Some say that it's the amount of current an amp can deliver (and how long it can sustain that delivery - i.e. more than a few milliseconds burst) that determines how powerful it will sound, not simple wattage measurement. Could sustained current delivery be the way to measure "heft"? When I need to be louder, I use a preamp and bridged PA power amp that is stated to deliver 900w and which sounds a LOT more pokey than my class D head (also claimed to deliver 900w). It has a hefty power supply - massive toroid and reservoir caps like bean tins. Could there be a connection?

[Twincam]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1478999727' post='3173273']
Although they`re not the loudest amps I`ve used, Ashdown ABMs seem to have the most solid presence of any that I`ve used, the sound just seems to slam into you. I find I have to push the volume on them much more than on other makes I`ve used, but once there the sound is very full. I also found this when trying out their Rootmaster amp. In comparison to my Tonehammer it had more solidity to the sound. But then I use a Sansamp to get all the solidity I need, on top of the sound I want as I really like the eq/gain/voicing of the Tonehammer. The Sansamp set flat just beefs it all up. Makes gigging with provided rigs easy as well - Sansamp and Tonehammer DI into whatever, my sound instantly.
[/quote]

I think Ashdowns are fairly rated. There not overly loud or under powered for there rating.
Even the older lower powered ones had decent heft.

In regards to volume as we know watts volume output is effect by all sorts. The marketing department being one of them, how they rate the amp lol.
But even if rated fairly, the eq and any associated electrical trickery that's especially in many modern amps can have a big impact on perceived volume and heft.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Twincam

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1478994833' post='3173255']

The TH500 is definitely one of the weaker Class D amps in my experience . Certainly, the weakest in terms of perceive 'heft' (I hate that damn term!) out of those iv tried. Although rated much higher, the Tecamp Puma 900 was much, much louder with much more presence. The Darkglass M900, rated the same as the Puma, is much louder and punchier again. Big differences between class D heads!
[/quote]

Big differences indeed. Pulled the trigger on a cheap Kustom KXB500 head a couple of years ago, with the intention of using it as a spare.
It kicked my TH500 and Puma900 out of the ball park. Since then the Kustom is the only head I use. Punch, Heft , thick tone and lots of headroom. Everything I need.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1482530204' post='3201361']
Could sustained current delivery be the way to measure "heft"?
[/quote]Absolutely.

[LukeFRC]

I used to have a Tecamp Puma 1000 - the powersoft one. Nice bit of kit.
I took the top off it once to look inside - essentially the powersoft unit with tecamp's preamp stuck on before it, and the outputs stuck on after it. Some of the amp modules also have the PSU inbuilt.
There's all sorts of things they can do with gain structure and how the preamp works... but it seems to be essentially a preamp plugged into a pre-designed unit.
I know TC electronics rightly got a bad name for their "creative" marketing of the RH450 - but I think that on the plus side they are using their expertise and electronics knowledge to get the best out of the amp module for a very specific bass guitar related need.
If you'll like a lightweight amp that kinda can do the SVT tone and have loads of compression and eq to play with it's a pretty good bit of kit.

Some of the other amps I suspect don't spend as much time and expertise making the parts work together. I don't think I've heard one but I'll use Aguilar as an example - from memory a year after announcing they would never do a class D amp they saw where the market was going and bolted their tone hammer pedal infront of probably an ice power class D module. It's not saying that thats' a bad way to work, but it's very different design process from that Hellborg amp you've got.

[LayDownThaFunk]

I put a brick on top of my class D head to give it more heft.

[chrisanthony1211]

I keep telling people that my 25 watt Ampeg B15 Heritage is more than enough to gig small to medium venues, it matches my 300watt Mark bass CMD121p......