Fretting hand issues

[Jam]

Recently I've noticed some bad habits with my technique, mostly with my fretting hand.

Rather than keeping my fingers curved they tend to be straight when I fret, pressing down with the pad rather than the top of the fingertips. I've been working on some exercises, namely 4 fingers per fret type exercises (Ariane Cap, Scott's bass lessons) and it is helping, but I'd appreciate any feedback.

Also, I don't know whether this is bass related or not, I might just have duff hands, but I cannot touch my thumb to my little finger, on either hand. I had a bad time in cub scouts. When I try I end up with what looks like an arthritic claw, the muscle under the thumb goes rock solid. Anyone have any experience with this?

Cheers!

(I've been playing for 12 years, mostly self taught with some lessons here and there)

[Coilte]

Be careful when using the OFPF technique on the lower (first five) frets. The stretch can be too much for some people.

Here is a useful clip :

http://www.scottsbasslessons.com/technique/2-great-tips-perfect-fretting-hand-technique.html

[chris_b]

[quote name='Jam' timestamp='1479115117' post='3173944']Recently I've noticed some bad habits with my technique, mostly with my fretting hand. Rather than keeping my fingers curved they tend to be straight when I fret, pressing down with the pad rather than the top of the fingertips. [/quote]

Is this a problem that is [i]actually[/i] causing you difficulties when you're playing, or is it just something you [i]think[/i] you should be doing differently?

My experience of 50 years playing bass at all levels, is that I play with mainly straight-ish fingers and use the pads of my fingers. As do may top players on YouTube videos. As long as you can hit all the notes you need to hit, on time and without any stress to your hand I don't see any "bad habits" here.

You might need to use the top of your fingers if you are playing 2 notes or more at once, when you need more than 1 string to ring out, but for single notes, pads and straight-ish fingers is a standard technique.

Economy of movement is also an objective when your rehearsing or playing for hours. As long as you can switch between the appropriate techniques when required you're fine.

Also it's better to use 1, 2, 4 fingering for the lower frets. Don't use one finger per fret until you are so far up the neck that the fret spacing doesn't cause you to stretch.

[bassjim]

Depending on what I'm playing, this dictates how the tips of my fingers are employed. Its not necessarily a conscious thought process though. I did for many years have a bad habit of always flattening just my ring finger on my fretting hand, using more of the fleshy part rather than the tip, whilst all the other fingers were more in the traditional bent over and only using the tips.

Although I've corrected this I find years later, I can use either or. Because I'm self taught I think the first 10-15 years were more of a pursuit to just getting the playing done to a point it was as fluid and effortless as could be.

I think that most of the "correct" (if this is officially correct,I dont know to be honest?) tips of the fingers style has just naturally evolved over the years as well without any determined effort on my part. It has to a degree,just sorted its self out.

If you cant touch your little finger with your thumb on the same hand? I think that's weird. As in it sounds well.....weird!! Maybe you do have something different to every one else which forces you to do something that works for you. I know a guitarist that has really small hands. When playing up the dusty end he has to bring his thumb forward and not round the back of the neck. Works for him.

As usual if in doubt ask a professional medical person.

[josie]

Please take seriously the chance of Repetitive Strain Injury. My wonderful physio once had a bass player boyfriend, and works with a lot of musicians, and has very strong and well-informed views on this.

If RSI sets in it can be eased, but never healed, you will have to be careful for the rest of your life. I trashed my right elbow many years ago (overdoing computer mousing, fine lace hand knitting, and competitive slalom kayaking all at the same time) which is why I can only play with a pick.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='josie' timestamp='1479162156' post='3174493']
(overdoing computer mousing, fine lace hand knitting, and competitive slalom kayaking all at the same time) which is why I can only play with a pick.
[/quote]

I don't mean to trivialise what sounds like a nasty condition, but knitting while kayaking is very impressive, and then you were using a computer at the same time!

(I have had to adapt to pick-only playing after 40 years of finger style due to a motorcycle accident a year ago, I do sympathise, really)

[josie]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1479162882' post='3174503']
I don't mean to trivialise what sounds like a nasty condition, but knitting while kayaking is very impressive, and then you were using a computer at the same time!
[/quote]

Ok sorry, correct that to "all on the same day, most days"

The computer bit is easy once you have voice recognition - highly recommended - but you're right, I dread to think what my daughter-in-law's Shetland lace 7' x 3' wedding veil would have looked like if I'd ever taken it out on the river!

[FinnDave]

Now I am genuinely impressed, 21 square feet of lacework must be a lot of work, and can imagine the toll that would have taken on your hands.

[josie]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1479163842' post='3174516']
Now I am genuinely impressed, 21 square feet of lacework must be a lot of work, and can imagine the toll that would have taken on your hands.
[/quote]

It's a museum quality piece on 2mm needles, original design which she and I developed together, based on traditional Shetland motifs with a quote from their wedding ceremony around the border. And she fully appreciates it. Sorry, this is really OT now!

There's no adaptation that will get me knitting or paddling slalom again. Voice recognition has transformed my computer use, and at least I can noodle down the canal in a straight line. But - to get back on topic - I've accepted that I'll never physically be able to play the ripply basslines I love. But there are plenty of good players who use a pick, and - as my teacher says to me, and I say to the clients I support - you work with what you have. I [b]can[/b] play bass, and I understand my physical limitations and take a positive focus on [b]how[/b] I can play and make that my bass voice.

Apologies if this a bit self-centred...

[paul_c2]

I'd have thought straight-ish fingers was ideal, because when the left hand is pressing down on (for example) E string, it is also able to mute A D and G strings - left hand muting. Similarly, fretting the A string allows left hand muting of D and G string (right hand mutes E string).

[chris_b]

[quote name='josie' timestamp='1479165109' post='3174526']
It's a museum quality piece on 2mm needles,
[/quote]
Pictures or it didn't happen. . . . !

[CrackerJackLee]

Jam,
I'm no expert, but this is important. Your hand is collapsing with fatigue. Your thumb muscle is temporarily cramped/paralyzed. BUT!!! No one ever has to touch their thumb and little finger together. Forget that. Perhaps the neck of your bass should not be too thin. If you play a five or six string, it will be a bit harder to curve your fingers.

If you're playing a four string, here is my technique based on my experience, research and physicality. My callouses are all on my fingertips only. I only uses the finger pad when I'm rolling between adjacent strings at the same fret. This technique will change your life if you apply it in your own fashion.

The stopping hand (or fretting hand) is "The Claw".
It is a form. Your hand assumes a rounded or curved claw-like form. Imagine holding a beer can.
Imagine holding a beer can. Imagine holding a beer can!
Fingers are curved. Opposing thumb is curved.
The thumb stays on the center-line behind the neck. Only a small part of the thumb pad contacts the neck.
Don't create friction. The palm never touches the neck.
The only part of the hand that contacts the neck are the center-line thumb and the fingertips on the strings.

The fingertips are like little hammers poised above and ready to fall, or on the string to hold it down.
Keep the fingertips down or slightly hovering. Do not flail the fingers about.
Avoid 1-2-3 fingering with the flailing pinky finger unless you are playing in the dusty end.
The previously played fingers assist the next finger on that string by holding the string down behind it.

Do not squeeze the neck between the thumb and fingertips much. The thumb is a guide.
Do not squeeze the neck between the thumb and fingertips much! The thumb is a guide.
Rather, pull the fingertips gently into the string. The thumb is used to balance and guide The Claw along the fingerboard.

Use both the Closed Claw(1-2-4) and the Open Claw(1-2-3-4).
1-2-4 in the low neck positions and 1-2-3-4 in the middle of the neck.
The size of your bass and hand will determine where you switch between them.
I have found that Blues and Jazz walking bass likes the 1-2-3-4 Claw as you play a four fret box.
But much of R&B, Latin, Disco Octaves and Rock like the 1-2-4 Claw as you play the three fret box.
You will begin to enjoy R&B basslines in the low end with the 1-2-4 Claw. Life will change.

Also, squeezing a tennis ball with the Claw hand AND the pizzicato hand will increase strength.
Keep the tennis ball with you, for when you are walking or waiting.
Then stretch your hands out, like a cat, to exercise your hand and finger muscles in the opposite direction.
Don't force or overdo anything.
Examine what other life tasks you are using your hands for that may be causing stress.

Do 1-2-3-4 and 1-2-4 spider exercises, the James Jamerson "Igor" exercise and scale sequences, scale intervals and modes and triad exercises. The 1-2-3-4 Claw uses a four fret box. The 1-2-4 uses a three fret box. The 1-2-3 form is great for playing above the twelfth fret. Actually, forcing these exercises can cramp your hand up, so take it easy at first.

Edited November 15, 2016 by CrackerJackLee

[Jam]

Cheers for the advice guys, will check out the videos and the exercises suggested The fingertip/pad thing is something I've noticed recently with videos on youtube of "proper" players, I've tried to adjust and can already feel my control has improved but any advice is appreciated.

Chris_B, you're right, it's just something that I [i]think[/i] I'm doing wrong - I've had a feeling for years that my technique is slightly cack-handed but it doesn't affect my playing too much and the bass teachers I've seen sporadically haven't had any issues with it.

Just as an aside, the thumb to pinky thing is something I've always been afflicted with, from a very young age.

CrackerJackLee, thank you for the detailed response, very much appreciated - will give the exercises a go when I get home from work. Keeping the thumb curved is something I'd not considered; while holding my imaginary bass at my desk (cue odd looks from colleagues) it seems like I might have my thumb quite straight...will report back later!

[josie]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1479168491' post='3174547']
Pictures or it didn't happen. . . . !
[/quote]

[attachment=232127:Heathers_veil.JPG]

[chris_b]

Beautiful work. I'm impressed. How long did that take?

[josie]

Hundreds of hours over the course of a year. (On a base of many thousands of hours over 40 years.) Loved every minute :-)

I wish I had a picture from the wedding, she wore it with one corner pinned to the top of her hairdo, spread across & down her back and the opposite corner trailing on the floor behind her.

I worked on it on trains, in doctors waiting rooms, anywhere I could grab five minutes, and the number of people who would say "I wouldn't have the patience for that" - to which I said, "I don't need patience, I'm enjoying it. I don't have patience for sitting with my hands in my lap doing nothing like you!" My favourite (although sad) was a restless young girl whose mother said "Don't wriggle, you have to just sit there" to which the girl replied "That lady's not just sitting there, she's making something!"

Patience - let's try to pull this back to playing bass - those basic scale and arpeggio exercises which, certainly at my beginner level, are essential to building a solid foundation. If I think of them as a chore for which I need patience, I won't do them. If I think of them as a pleasure in their own right, something I [b]want[/b] to do - I have this gorgeous bass guitar which I'm in love with, I [b]can[/b] play bass, and I want to play better, and this is the way - then I don't need patience. I'm making something.

[RhysP]

[quote name='josie' timestamp='1479249826' post='3175139']


[attachment=232127:Heathers_veil.JPG]
[/quote]

Wow, that's really lovely

[chris_b]

Thanks josie.