On-line degree courses.

[ambient]

A bit of a ranty post. I'd never heard of this until yesterday. A guitarist that I'm doing some gigs with in December recently graduated with a degree in guitar playing after doing an on-line, two year course. I think he has a BA.

I did a three year course, attending lectures 3 days a week, for up to 8 hours a day. On the days that I wasn't in for lectures, I'd probably spend maybe 10 or 12 hours practicing, and then do other assignments, dissertations, essays etc on top of that.

I don't see how you can do a degree in 2 years, especially when you don't attend lectures. We had live performance assessments every week, you'd get none of that ?

He doesn't even read music. I had to audition for my place, and being able to read extremely well was part of the requirement of passing the audition.

To me this sort of thing is devaluing musical education, and further education in general.

[moooper]

Completely agree it's becoming massively common thing. The devaluation in music education is really bad. So many courses and institutions being set up with absolutely no real interest in excellence it's just money. Coming from an ex lecturer you wouldnt believe how bad it is.
I would never give anyone advice to do a degree/Btec in music or anything from a school/institute less than nation/international standard. It's just wasted time and money otherwise.

[3below]

There are degrees from universities and 'degrees' from 'universities'. Good advice from mooper, spend your money wisely.

[mr zed]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1479279497' post='3175224']
There are degrees from universities and 'degrees' from 'universities'.
[/quote]

Indeed - I spent 4 years of my life studying for an MBA with the Open University Business School whilst working in a full-time role. I was committed to 20 hours study time per week, studying at the weekend, sometimes throughout the night, on family holidays etc - it was a real challenge. Now the OUBS is very well regarded and their MBA programme is triple accredited however it is not one of the top business schools. When a new manager started with our organisation, we got talking and the subject came up.

"Where did you study for your MBA"?
"Open University".
" Oh right - very good. Have you been in prison?"

Still not sure if he was joking or not!

[franzbassist]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1479279497' post='3175224']
There are degrees from universities and 'degrees' from 'universities'. Good advice from mooper, spend your money wisely.
[/quote]

As someone who has worked in UK HE for nearly 30 years, a big +1 to this.

[mcnach]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1479260746' post='3175209']
A bit of a ranty post. I'd never heard of this until yesterday. A guitarist that I'm doing some gigs with in December recently graduated with a degree in guitar playing after doing an on-line, two year course. I think he has a BA.

I did a three year course, attending lectures 3 days a week, for up to 8 hours a day. On the days that I wasn't in for lectures, I'd probably spend maybe 10 or 12 hours practicing, and then do other assignments, dissertations, essays etc on top of that.

I don't see how you can do a degree in 2 years, especially when you don't attend lectures. We had live performance assessments every week, you'd get none of that ?

He doesn't even read music. I had to audition for my place, and being able to read extremely well was part of the requirement of passing the audition.

To me this sort of thing is devaluing musical education, and further education in general.
[/quote]


it's not just in music...

[BigRedX]

But just how important is a degree in music when it comes to getting a job playing your instrument?

I work in a different creative industry (graphic design) and on the whole the importance of having a degree when it comes to getting a job in any of the design studios where I have worked has been minimal. In fact I can't think of a single graduate that any place I was at, that was taken on based on the fact that that they had a degree. Those that that did had all been at the company before on work experience in some capacity and the skills they demonstrated during their work experience time was deemed to be far more relevant than any qualifications they might be aiming for. Several of the best graphic designers I have worked with came straight from school on work experience and never left.

[ambient]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1479287981' post='3175282']
But just how important is a degree in music when it comes to getting a job playing your instrument?

I work in a different creative industry (graphic design) and on the whole the importance of having a degree when it comes to getting a job in any of the design studios where I have worked has been minimal. In fact I can't think of a single graduate that any place I was at, that was taken on based on the fact that that they had a degree. Those that that did had all been at the company before on work experience in some capacity and the skills they demonstrated during their work experience time was deemed to be far more relevant than any qualifications they might be aiming for. Several of the best graphic designers I have worked with came straight from school on work experience and never left.
[/quote]

I know what you mean. It mostly depends on what work you want to do. If you want to include teaching in your portfolio of skills, then you invariably need a degree. I've been asked for sight of mine just to register with private tutor agencies. Teaching through your local authority music service will certainly require a degree.

I definitely came out of mine a far better player than I went in, partly down to the massive amount of practice that I was required to do. There's also the academic side of it as well. You gain a lot from that too, I found anyway.

[Dad3353]

As long as you're happy with what your hard work has brought you, I don't see the problem. If others have a 'short-cut', or degraded version, they presumably won't have your acquired skills. How does that debase your own work..? I doubt that any decent job you'd be after would be 'snatched' by one of these fly-by-night pieces of paper (or, if it was, it wasn't a decent job needing your skills...). Let the children play; trace your own route and ignore the others. It doesn't sound as if you regret having put in all of that work, so you're the 'winner', no..?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Dad3353

[ambient]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1479293280' post='3175342']
As long as you're happy with what your hard work has brought you, I don't see the problem. If others have a 'short-cut', or degraded version, they presumably won't have your acquired skills. How does that debase your own work..? I doubt that any decent job you'd be after would be 'snatched' by one of these fly-by-night pieces of paper (or, if it was, it wasn't a decent job needing your skills...). Let the children play; trace your own route and ignore the others. It doesn't sound as if you regret having put in all of that work, so you're the 'winner', no..?
[/quote]

Ha, I know exactly what you're saying. It was just a bit of a rant that had kind of been brewing for much of yesterday. I'd spoken to the guy on Monday afternoon, and we'd been chatting about things. I mentioned that I was going to be at uni in London yesterday. That's when he told me he'd got a degree too, and how he'd got it in 2 years etc, etc.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1479293809' post='3175351']
Ha, I know exactly what you're saying. It was just a bit of a rant that had kind of been brewing for much of yesterday. I'd spoken to the guy on Monday afternoon, and we'd been chatting about things. I mentioned that I was going to be at uni in London yesterday. That's when he told me he'd got a degree too, and how he'd got it in 2 years etc, etc.
[/quote]

Ah, but has he got a BC Composition Challenge Certificate..? That's the [i]real [/i]test..!

[MacDaddy]

ambient, did he mention who awarded the degree?

[ambient]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1479307691' post='3175499']
ambient, did he mention who awarded the degree?
[/quote]

Falmouth I believe.

[MacDaddy]

It seems to be legit, in that it is properly accredited, but when compared with 3 years intensive full time study, I'm not sure how it can compare

[Baxter]

I did BA Hons in History with the OU. Took six years of LOTS of reading, researching and essay writing to get through.....

[cameltoe]

My brother in law has just finished his first year Marine Biology degree. He didn't attend a single lecture in the first year because he didn't need to- lectures were all published on-line and a lot of his contact with tutors was via email. He was pretty annoyed about it, as on average it was costing 9k a year to attend, he couldn't see where the money was going.

[ambient]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1479309430' post='3175522']
My brother in law has just finished his first year Marine Biology degree. He didn't attend a single lecture in the first year because he didn't need to- lectures were all published on-line and a lot of his contact with tutors was via email. He was pretty annoyed about it, as on average it was costing 9k a year to attend, he couldn't see where the money was going.
[/quote]

I'm not surprised he was annoyed.I got something like 30 hours a week contact time in the first 2 years, not so much in the 3rd year, but I had so much to do anyway.

The problem is, students have become customers, buying their degrees.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1479310770' post='3175533']
The problem is, students have become customers, buying their degrees.
[/quote]

A friend of my daughters found a place in the cayman islands that would provide her with the "wherewithalls" to qualify as a social worker. At a price?

Edited November 16, 2016 by mentalextra

[grandad]

A 3 year BA (Hons) in the 1970's was 9-5, 5 days a week, + every lunch time in the pub.

[3below]

[quote name='grandad' timestamp='1479314044' post='3175564']
A 3 year BA (Hons) in the 1970's was 9-5, 5 days a week, + every lunch time in the pub.
[/quote]

Ditto BSc (Hons) in the same era. Weds afternoon was free for recreation

[MacDaddy]

And you could sign on during the holidays...

[Barking Spiders]

There are a load of 'full time' ..errm.... less demanding courses even at proper universities where the workloads hardly seem taxing. some with only 3 - 4 hours a day of lectures and seminars. My engineering course was 9 to 4.30, five days week plus a good 15-20 hours worth of assignments . But that was quite relaxed compared to my 1 year MBA course which was 9-6 five days week plus 4 hours of assignments each night and a good day's worth of additional tasks at weekends. I'd say to any aspiring students they should question the quality of courses with seemingly light workloads.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Barking Spiders

[BigRedX]

Nothing wrong IMO with a course that has "lighter workload", as it might actually give you time to digest and properly understand the information you are being given. After all isn't that the point of further education, that you should learn how to think for yourself rather than simply regurgitating what you have been taught.

I was on one of those 9-5, five days a week university courses in the late 70s and the information overload was a significant contributing factor to my failing the year and leaving.

[MoonBassAlpha]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1479292928' post='3175331']


I know what you mean. It mostly depends on what work you want to do. If you want to include teaching in your portfolio of skills, then you invariably need a degree. I've been asked for sight of mine just to register with private tutor agencies. Teaching through your local authority music service will certainly require a degree.
[/quote]
I have a friend who teaches guitar at (I think) 2 schools, who can't read music. I was surprised, to say the least. I didn't rate his playing all that highly either...

[Luulox]

Online degrees are great and I should know as I have recently spent a gruelling fortnight completing my masters in philosophy and media studies from the prestigious Central university of Nigeria.