The perfect Jazz/MM tone in one instrument.is there such a bass.?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1479670716' post='3178348']
Thinking about it the saddle positions would alter with string gauge and tension so all but the Lakland might be right?
[/quote] think it's a bad way to work it out!

[LukeFRC]

PDF version

[ikay]

The Stingray in the pic above isn't quite to scale. When it is the bridge coil of the MM is about 10mm closer to the neck than the J 60s bridge position. I have a spreadsheet of pickup positions for various basses (something I did for input to build/mod projects). All measured from the 12th fret which is a good fixed point for comparison. I can't seem to attach it here but if anyone wants a copy just drop me a pm with your email.

[biro]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1479668541' post='3178318']
I think the inner coils sound more towards a P bass. The outer coils start to sound nasally not unlike a Jazz. Perhaps I'm thinking more an active Jazz than a passive one.
[/quote]

Yes, but the point is that there is quite a lot of phase cancellation going on, and it occurs in a manner that is quite distinct from what would happen with a J bass. Also, the neck pick up is much closer to the neck than it would on a J bass. I'll record a quick comparison later.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479673769' post='3178380']
think it's a bad way to work it out!
[/quote]
Its not though is it, are all your strings exactly 34" long nut to saddle? That's why they've gone from a fixed point backwards ie the 12th fret.

[mcnach]

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1479666510' post='3178290']
Did you mod it or did you buy it like that? I'm only asking because that's exactly what I fitted to my blue OLP
[/quote]

all of mine were stock when I bought them and I modified them myself. Except the second one that I bought which was "meh" and sold it after just one gig with it.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1479678372' post='3178438']

Its not though is it, are all your strings exactly 34" long nut to saddle? That's why they've gone from a fixed point backwards ie the 12th fret.
[/quote] the image I made I used measurements from the nut.
Got a ray you can measure centre of pickup to 12th fret so I can check?

[ikay]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479713498' post='3178570']
Got a ray you can measure centre of pickup to 12th fret so I can check?
[/quote]
From 12th fret to centreline of Ray pup is 344mm, from nut is 776mm (+432mm). Measurement to neck coil is 332mm and bridge coil is 356mm. This is for an SR5 but SR4 should be the same.

Centreline of a 60s J bridge pup is 367mm from 12th fret.

Edited November 21, 2016 by ikay

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479713498' post='3178570']
the image I made I used measurements from the nut.
Got a ray you can measure centre of pickup to 12th fret so I can check?
[/quote]
I'll be home after 9pm tonight, I can measure what bits will help

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='ikay' timestamp='1479716681' post='3178593']

From 12th fret to centreline of Ray pup is 344mm, from nut is 776mm (+432mm). Measurement to neck coil is 332mm and bridge coil is 356mm. This is for an SR5 but SR4 should be the same.

Centreline of a 60s J bridge pup is 367mm from 12th fret.
[/quote]

Ah well there you go

[EBS_freak]

With regards to MM tone - there is the fact that is MM Stingray is active and relies on the MM circuit. A MM pickup, even in the correct location, will not get you there alone. Couple this fact with a JB being passive, there's no way you can get a true MM and J in one using the same set of controls.

We all know for example, that a filter system does not a Wal make. Similarly, the individual coil around each pole approach to pickups does not a Wal make. Even an aftermarket filter preamp and aftermarket pickup made in the aforementioned manner does not make a Wal!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1479722801' post='3178654']
With regards to MM tone - there is the fact that is MM Stingray is active and relies on the MM circuit. A MM pickup, even in the correct location, will not get you there alone. Couple this fact with a JB being passive, there's no way you can get a true MM and J in one using the same set of controls.

We all know for example, that a filter system does not a Wal make. Similarly, the individual coil around each pole approach to pickups does not a Wal make. Even an aftermarket filter preamp and aftermarket pickup made in the aforementioned manner does not make a Wal!
[/quote]

This!

[mcnach]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1479722801' post='3178654']
With regards to MM tone - there is the fact that is MM Stingray is active and relies on the MM circuit. A MM pickup, even in the correct location, will not get you there alone. Couple this fact with a JB being passive, there's no way you can get a true MM and J in one using the same set of controls.

We all know for example, that a filter system does not a Wal make. Similarly, the individual coil around each pole approach to pickups does not a Wal make. Even an aftermarket filter preamp and aftermarket pickup made in the aforementioned manner does not make a Wal!
[/quote]

But the thing is a Stingray with a bypass switch sounds most definitely "Stingray". You just don't get access to *other* Stingray sounds.
I had such switch installed in my bass. I was very surprised to find that the sound I generally go for is very nearly the same sound as the bypassed preamp gives me. Not exactly the same, but pretty close!

[BigRedX]

Bubinga5, you really need to go and try an Enfield bass for yourself. It has plenty of variety when it comes to getting different tones out of it.

Whether any of them are the one you want I don't know, because AFAIAC, every single bass sounds different, but ultimately the only thing I am bothered about is whether I can get a usable sound out of it in the band context, and with very few exceptions for me the answer is yes, irrespective of what the bass is.

[Musicman20]

I'd say in these circs, you are best off with a Musicman and a Jazz.

No bass sounds like a Musicman, even boutique close copies, so if you want that huge cutting humbucker tone, get the Stingray.

A Stingray HS is a great bass....it will 'approximate' a Jazz bridge pickup, more so if you don't have a lot of the active treble added.

The S coil will get some nice front pup J tones ISH tones...but it isn't the same.

But, those tones are much closer than say a Fender with a humbucker in the sweet spot like a Dimension bass.

[Musicman20]

....and now I've seen the diagram approximations, no wonder I think the HS Musicman gets close to a Jazz bridge pickup when one coil is selected...it is almost exactly the right spot.

I tend to drop treble and boost mids for more 'burp'...then you are fairly close to a J bass bridge pickup.

[Chiliwailer]

Just had a read of this thread, looks like no one has mentioned pole piece size? Or did I muss it? Seems to be a big factor to me as well as the other good points out there. Makes me also wonder about winding differences but I wont lose any sleep

I agree with Biro, the Ray HH doesn't do a full on Jazz Bass tone but the tone is still great in those positions.

[ikay]

Here's a scale drawing showing the relative positions of P, J and SR pickups. The lines shown represent the centreline through the pole pieces in each case.
[URL=http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/iankay/media/Stuff/Pickup%20positions.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i370/iankay/Stuff/Pickup%20positions.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Edited November 21, 2016 by ikay

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1479646220' post='3178041']
There's a bargain custom made bass with 70s J + sweet spot MM configuration lurking in the classifieds somewhere. Sorry I can't remember the name of it!
[/quote]

Here is said bass:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282273-fsft-custom-built-jazz-bass-jmj-pickups"]http://basschat.co.u...ass-jmj-pickups[/url]

Looks like the MM pup needs to go a tad closer to the bridge but it's pretty close:

Edited November 21, 2016 by dannybuoy

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1479722801' post='3178654']
With regards to MM tone - there is the fact that is MM Stingray is active and relies on the MM circuit. A MM pickup, even in the correct location, will not get you there alone. Couple this fact with a JB being passive, there's no way you can get a true MM and J in one using the same set of controls.

We all know for example, that a filter system does not a Wal make. Similarly, the individual coil around each pole approach to pickups does not a Wal make. Even an aftermarket filter preamp and aftermarket pickup made in the aforementioned manner does not make a Wal!
[/quote] What is quite interesting with the musicman preamp is it feeds the pickup straight in to the input stage and the volume is changing the gain of the output stage of the preamp.
Most other active bass systems use a passive pot to do the volume then feed that into the preamp for buffering and eq etc.

[quote name='ikay' timestamp='1479742944' post='3178889']
Here's a scale drawing showing the relative positions of P, J and SR pickups. The lines shown represent the centreline through the pole pieces in each case.
[url="http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/iankay/media/Stuff/Pickup%20positions.jpg.html"][/url]
[/quote] Mine was to scale too, but that's pretty awesome
[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1479743735' post='3178903']
Here is said bass:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282273-fsft-custom-built-jazz-bass-jmj-pickups"]http://basschat.co.u...ass-jmj-pickups[/url]

Looks like the MM pup needs to go a tad closer to the bridge but it's pretty close:


[/quote] I like that

[AdamWoodBass]

Don't know if anyone has already mentioned these but the Sandberg California TM series are pretty good for the Jazz/MM hybrid. I've played a few of them and never come across a bad one.

http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/calt-series

[molan]

It'll be interesting to see how the new Sadowsky system sounds.

He has a custom pickup built by Carey Nordstrand with a twin single coil pickup at the bridge. One coil is set in the classic 70's position and the other in 60's.

Switching allows either one to be used individually or both in tandem.

All basses slated to have this configuration will also have the Will Lee mid boost circuit fitted too.

I don't think the aim is specifically to get that fat MM sound but knowing Roger this will have been in development and testing for quite a while so ought to work really well.

[drTStingray]

Some accurate Stingray 4HH measurements, which can be added if you wish - they are imperial - remember these are US built/designed basses and all measurements tend to be imperial.

Front edge of bridge to centre of fret 12 = 17"
Centre of saddles to centre of fret 12 = 17 and 3/8" (G) to 17 1/2" (E)
Centre of G saddle to centre of bridge pole, bridge pick up = 2"
Centre of G saddle to centre of neck pole, bridge pick up = 2 and 7/8"
Centre of neck pole, bridge pick up to centre of bridge pole, neck pick up = 2 and 5/8"
Centre of bridge pole, neck pick up to centre of neck pole, neck pick up = 7/8"

Just to add to the mix, my Classic Sabre does an extremely good impression of a good P bass with the inside single coil of the neck pick up selected (and probably front pick up of a Jazz) - I'm pretty sure it's been designed to sound like this. It's neck pick up does have 16 coils (set in two rows of eight) - the humbuckers are slightly different from a Stingray - with covered pole pieces, a silent circuit, and appear slightly smaller - still does a great Stingray sound with bridge H. To add to the mix, it uniquely has a mahogany body in combination with a roasted maple neck.

Edited November 21, 2016 by drTStingray

[Musicman20]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1479766092' post='3179181']
It'll be interesting to see how the new Sadowsky system sounds.

He has a custom pickup built by Carey Nordstrand with a twin single coil pickup at the bridge. One coil is set in the classic 70's position and the other in 60's.

Switching allows either one to be used individually or both in tandem.

All basses slated to have this configuration will also have the Will Lee mid boost circuit fitted too.

I don't think the aim is specifically to get that fat MM sound but knowing Roger this will have been in development and testing for quite a while so ought to work really well.
[/quote]

The new Sadowsky classic style single cut basses look great; I am surprised I like the style.

[Treb]

There's no substitute for the real thing. Get both!

[attachment=232514:DSC_0001.jpg]

DJ4 with DJ-Retro preamp & EBMM Sterling.