Taxpayers money and music education

[ambient]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479568023' post='3177535']
I was listening to a article about this on the Today programme on the way to work. I think what's happened is that the government has massively cut the arts and music lessons budget. Then decided to give a small amount of it back.
So they've made a massive cut, but then announced a £300 million programme to part replace the bigger one that they just got rid of... politiks for you.

as to the rest of this thread...
<Rant> the idea we pay taxes to pay for the education of children has been established in the UK since the 19th century - it's a shame that our country has become so individualistic and selfish that you hear voices (even on here) suggesting we shouldn't do pay taxes for education. Bonkers.
Add to that our government massively cutting the funding for education and moving focus away from the arts. 'Cos of course music, and drawing is all just a waste of our kids time when they should be learning to read, write, and add up - or something like that - except for the fact that as a country we're only really really world class at a few things.... banking and financial industries... and art, design and music. And half the country has just shot us in the foot so we won't be the world leader for the financial sector for much longer leaving us with the creative sector... which we're just cutting funding too... </rant>
[/quote]

Well said !

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479548077' post='3177347']
Why do you begrudge your taxes being spent in this way? [/quote]

Because I have different priorities.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479548077' post='3177347']How would you prefer it to be spent?
[/quote]

On things which do not relate to musical education in schools.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1479586237' post='3177713']
Because I have different priorities.



On things which do not relate to musical education in schools.
[/quote]


So if you remove musical from the last response, are you happy funding education with your taxes? If so, do you really feel that you should be able to pick and choose on such a level as to how education is delivered? Music has a profound effect on literacy, much music theory is intrinsically tied to mathematics, and it has a great impact on the soft skills that children need to learn (the latter being much in demand by groups including the CBI and Russell Group universities).

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479587513' post='3177731']
So if you remove musical from the last response, are you happy funding education with your taxes? If so, do you really feel that you should be able to pick and choose on such a level as to how education is delivered? Music has a profound effect on literacy, much music theory is intrinsically tied to mathematics, and it has a great impact on the soft skills that children need to learn (the latter being much in demand by groups including the CBI and Russell Group universities).
[/quote]

All of this is true, but equally true of many other curricular or extra-curricular activities. Sports fields..? Cookery classes..? Basic home economics..? Sex education..? Debating societies..? Chess club..? School (and local...) libraries..? The School Play..? Does one have to choose one or other of these as a priority, or other things for public money to go on..? How about diverting some of the Trident - submarine fund, or aircraft carrier money, to something with a known, and wanted, positive outcome..? Music is fine, but there's so much more, too.

[itsmedunc]

Brilliant! The tax payers money is already squandered on countless inappropriate schemes. At least the children of the working tax paying class will have something back for their parents labour. Music expands the mind and should not be the luxury of the elite, or ordinary folk like us who are fortunate enough to have been able to afford an instrument and have the privilege of being able to play.

[ambient]

For me personally art and music in particular were about the only things that I was any good at. I have autism, and have always struggled both socially and with communication, verbal and written, though I can write amazing essays. Music lessons at school were a huge benefit to me, which I why I feel so strongly, and passionately about this subject.

Here's just a few of the benefits of musical education for youngsters, from published research:


[u]More Than Just Music[/u]

Research has found that learning music facilitates learning other subjects and enhances skills that children inevitably use in other areas. “A music-rich experience for children of singing, listening and moving is really bringing a very serious benefit to children as they progress into more formal learning,” says Mary Luehrisen, executive director of the National Association of Music Merchants (NAMM) Foundation, a not-for-profit association that promotes the benefits of making music.

Making music involves more than the voice or fingers playing an instrument; a child learning about music has to tap into multiple skill sets, often simultaneously. For instance, people use their ears and eyes, as well as large and small muscles, says Kenneth Guilmartin, cofounder of Music Together, an early childhood music development program for infants through kindergarteners that involves parents or caregivers in the classes.

“Music learning supports all learning. Not that Mozart makes you smarter, but it’s a very integrating, stimulating pastime or activity,” Guilmartin says.

[u]Language Development[/u]

“When you look at children ages two to nine, one of the breakthroughs in that area is music’s benefit for language development, which is so important at that stage,” says Luehrisen. While children come into the world ready to decode sounds and words, music education helps enhance those natural abilities. “Growing up in a musically rich environment is often advantageous for children’s language development,” she says. But Luehrisen adds that those inborn capacities need to be “reinforced, practiced, celebrated,” which can be done at home or in a more formal music education setting.

According to the Children’s Music Workshop, the effect of music education on language development can be seen in the brain. “Recent studies have clearly indicated that musical training physically develops the part of the left side of the brain known to be involved with processing language, and can actually wire the brain’s circuits in specific ways. Linking familiar songs to new information can also help imprint information on young minds,” the group claims.

This relationship between music and language development is also socially advantageous to young children. “The development of language over time tends to enhance parts of the brain that help process music,” says Dr. Kyle Pruett, clinical professor of child psychiatry at Yale School of Medicine and a practicing musician. “Language competence is at the root of social competence. Musical experience strengthens the capacity to be verbally competent.”

[u]Increased IQ[/u]

A study by E. Glenn Schellenberg at the University of Toronto at Mississauga, as published in a 2004 issue of Psychological Science, found a small increase in the IQs of six-year-olds who were given weekly voice and piano lessons. Schellenberg provided nine months of piano and voice lessons to a dozen six-year-olds, drama lessons (to see if exposure to arts in general versus just music had an effect) to a second group of six-year-olds, and no lessons to a third group. The children’s IQs were tested before entering the first grade, then again before entering the second grade.

Surprisingly, the children who were given music lessons over the school year tested on average three IQ points higher than the other groups. The drama group didn’t have the same increase in IQ, but did experience increased social behavior benefits not seen in the music-only group.

[u]The Brain Works Harder[/u]

Research indicates the brain of a musician, even a young one, works differently than that of a nonmusician. “There’s some good neuroscience research that children involved in music have larger growth of neural activity than people not in music training. When you’re a musician and you’re playing an instrument, you have to be using more of your brain,” says Dr. Eric Rasmussen, chair of the Early Childhood Music Department at the Peabody Preparatory of The Johns Hopkins University, where he teaches a specialized music curriculum for children aged two months to nine years.

In fact, a study led by Ellen Winner, professor of psychology at Boston College, and Gottfried Schlaug, professor of neurology at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and Harvard Medical School, found changes in the brain images of children who underwent 15 months of weekly music instruction and practice. The students in the study who received music instruction had improved sound discrimination and fine motor tasks, and brain imaging showed changes to the networks in the brain associated with those abilities, according to the Dana Foundation, a private philanthropic organization that supports brain research.

[u]Spatial-Temporal Skills[/u]

Research has also found a causal link between music and spatial intelligence, which means that understanding music can help children visualize various elements that should go together, like they would do when solving a math problem.

“We have some pretty good data that music instruction does reliably improve spatial-temporal skills in children over time,” explains Pruett, who helped found the Performing Arts Medicine Association. These skills come into play in solving multistep problems one would encounter in architecture, engineering, math, art, gaming, and especially working with computers.

[u]Improved Test Scores[/u]

A study published in 2007 by Christopher Johnson, professor of music education and music therapy at the University of Kansas, revealed that students in elementary schools with superior music education programs scored around 22 percent higher in English and 20 percent higher in math scores on standardized tests, compared to schools with low-quality music programs, regardless of socioeconomic disparities among the schools or school districts. Johnson compares the concentration that music training requires to the focus needed to perform well on a standardized test.

Aside from test score results, Johnson’s study highlights the positive effects that a quality music education can have on a young child’s success. Luehrisen explains this psychological phenomenon in two sentences: “Schools that have rigorous programs and high-quality music and arts teachers probably have high-quality teachers in other areas. If you have an environment where there are a lot of people doing creative, smart, great things, joyful things, even people who aren’t doing that have a tendency to go up and do better.”

And it doesn’t end there: along with better performance results on concentration-based tasks, music training can help with basic memory recall. “Formal training in music is also associated with other cognitive strengths such as verbal recall proficiency,” Pruett says. “People who have had formal musical training tend to be pretty good at remembering verbal information stored in memory.”

[u]Being Musical[/u]

Music can improve your child’ abilities in learning and other nonmusic tasks, but it’s important to understand that music does not make one smarter. As Pruett explains, the many intrinsic benefits to music education include being disciplined, learning a skill, being part of the music world, managing performance, being part of something you can be proud of, and even struggling with a less than perfect teacher.

“It’s important not to oversell how smart music can make you,” Pruett says. “Music makes your kid interesting and happy, and smart will come later. It enriches his or her appetite for things that bring you pleasure and for the friends you meet.”
While parents may hope that enrolling their child in a music program will make her a better student, the primary reasons to provide your child with a musical education should be to help them become more musical, to appreciate all aspects of music, and to respect the process of learning an instrument or learning to sing, which is valuable on its own merit.

“There is a massive benefit from being musical that we don’t understand, but it’s individual. Music is for music’s sake,” Rasmussen says. “The benefit of music education for me is about being musical. It gives you have a better understanding of yourself. The horizons are higher when you are involved in music,” he adds. “Your understanding of art and the world, and how you can think and express yourself, are enhanced.”

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479587513' post='3177731']
So if you remove musical from the last response, are you happy funding education with your taxes?[/quote]

Not particularly.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479587513' post='3177731']If so, do you really feel that you should be able to pick and choose on such a level as to how education is delivered? [/quote]

N/A - see above


[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479587513' post='3177731']Music has a profound effect on literacy, much music theory is intrinsically tied to mathematics, and it has a great impact on the soft skills that children need to learn (the latter being much in demand by groups including the CBI and Russell Group universities).
[/quote]

Possibly.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1479588943' post='3177745']
Not particularly.

[/quote]

OK, won't try and reason with such a radical view.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479589280' post='3177749']
OK, won't try and reason with such a radical view.
[/quote]

Suits me. I'm busy cooking dinner.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1479589280' post='3177749']
OK, won't try and reason with such a radical view.
[/quote]

Not so radical as all that, I'd say. There are many 'reasonings' that are entirely valid, I'd say.

[rushbo]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1479588743' post='3177741']
Music is fine, but there's so much more, too.
[/quote]

Absolutely true. Often, it's not a question of funds, it's just that the students (and teachers) are under such pressure to pass exams that any extra-curricular time is taken up with catch up lessons for English, Maths, History blahblah...) You can argue with head teachers until you're blue in the face that the Arts are a vital part in the education of a significant percentage of students - enjoyment and fulfillment come under the heading of "unquantifiable data" and as such, are useless as they don't count in league tables.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1479589585' post='3177753']
Not so radical as all that, I'd say. There are many 'reasonings' that are entirely valid, I'd say.
[/quote]
Well I'll leave it to someone else - just remembered why I stay out of Off Topic.

[rushbo]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1479588882' post='3177744']
For me personally art and music in particular were about the only things that I was any good at. I have autism, and have always struggled both socially and with communication, verbal and written, though I can write amazing essays. Music lessons at school were a huge benefit to me, which I why I feel so strongly, and passionately about this subject.

[/quote]
My experience is the mirror image of this...I couldn't engage with music at school. Our teachers had an incredibly low opinion of almost any 20th Century music - even Satie was treated with suspicion. When I finally picked up an instrument later in life it was much harder for me because I didn't have a decent grounding in the fundamentals of theory. The curriculum today is nicely balanced between "classical" music and "pop" music - students learn about both, but they get to focus on one for their more practical pieces. One of my roles is to record their compositions and prepared pieces. Some are a little wonky, but many of them are superb - to hear students coaxing fantastic, original music out of car boot sale instruments is humbling.

[ambient]

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1479590750' post='3177770']
My experience is the mirror image of this...I couldn't engage with music at school. Our teachers had an incredibly low opinion of almost any 20th Century music - even Satie was treated with suspicion. When I finally picked up an instrument later in life it was much harder for me because I didn't have a decent grounding in the fundamentals of theory. The curriculum today is nicely balanced between "classical" music and "pop" music - students learn about both, but they get to focus on one for their more practical pieces. One of my roles is to record their compositions and prepared pieces. Some are a little wonky, but many of them are superb - to hear students coaxing fantastic, original music out of car boot sale instruments is humbling.
[/quote]

It was all classical music for me too. I'm a bit odd as a bassist, well I'm a bit odd anyway tbh , but I came from playing violin at school, then later classical guitar. So I was taught to read music, and basic theory. When I started playing bass, I learned the notes on the bass clef, it didn't occur to me that you could play without being able to read music.

There's little better than passing my knowledge on to students.

[TimR]

We should be aiming to produce well rounded people not creating a population of people who can just read and write english and be able to do maths.

All subjects should be equally as important at a basic level. Other subjects (like the three R's) obviously should be studied in greater detail.

Some subjects obviously need fairly decent sums of money invested in equipment, others don't. Effectively what the government are doing here is trying to prevent schools from cutting their music budget to fund other subjects (which all too often happens when their overall budget is reduced.)

[cheddatom]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479568023' post='3177535']
...the idea we pay taxes to pay for the education of children has been established in the UK since the 19th century - it's a shame that our country has become so individualistic and selfish that you hear voices (even on here) suggesting we shouldn't do pay taxes for education. Bonkers.
[/quote]

Very well said

[ambient]

It's a slippery slope to nothingness when art and music is relegated to something looked upon as a hobby. With the emphasis being placed on so called proper subjects.

First af all we need to look at just how much money is brought into the country by arts and entertainment industry. I hate looking at it as an industry but that's exactly what it is, and it earns the UK billions every year.

The phrase, that I hated, but was used a lot in the days after the referendum, was Britain is open for business. It's an obsession with money that I hate. I doubt it's the case, but maybe this awful government have finally realised that post-brexit, we'll need the arts even more.

[cheddatom]

profit is the most important thing. If profit can't be made it's not worth doing. Just look at what's happening to the NHS