£100 in your pocket and empty or £30 and packed?

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1479629960' post='3177882']
If I was in a more contemparary setup playing chart sh*te its possible we might get to play in pubs for a younger crowd although I don't know if such places exist that want live music (or old men playing chart stuff!)
[/quote]

if you dont know, and you havent tried, you might end up finding out that there is fees to be found

[LITTLEWING]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1479622830' post='3177858']
Don't know what the complaint is. Free rehearsal room.
[/quote]Yep, this.

It's a paid rehearsal plus you get that valuable chance to make sure all the gear's working and you're all in that live line-up with everything spread out behind you and not half volume in a random circle in a rehearsal space. Any gig is worth a hundred praccies.

[Paul S]

Small numbers of punters doesn't necessarily mean a bad gig. One of my bands routinely plays a microscopic venue (The Miley, in Rochford, if anyone local to Southend knows it). The place is rammed if more than 20 people turn up, but the owners love putting on music and have invested heavily into it. I reckon 20% of the floor space is the stage area and they have just built a decent sized outdoor stage for summer. The punters go there expecting there to be bands and are always hugely appreciative. Pay is no less than anywhere else we play.

[lowdown]

I would take the £100 and enquire if there is anymore?

[AdamWoodBass]

Back when I did it for a living I'd take the higher paid gig because no matter how good the crowd is they won't pay your electricity bill. Nowadays with a day job I don't need the money from gigs so I can afford to be much more picky about the gigs I do. Different priorities now, I play music because I love it so if I'm playing for my petrol money I don't mind as long as it's a good crowd.

[phil.c60]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1479583576' post='3177688']
I'd probably play 4 hours for free.....

Oh wait sorry wrong thread.


[/quote]

In Milwaukee? And haul lights?

See, you've got me at it now.

Anyhoo - we played at a lovely pub last night, and the audience was a bit thin on the ground. It was, however, an absolutely filthy night at a place where most people would walk to. Storm Angus, apparently. Thanks, Angus. Still, they liked us and want to re book us for a couple of dates next year, and have us at their other venue so a good night overall. I'd still prefer a busy one though. Quiet ones are really difficult for the guy up front. Fortunately, that's not me!

[Roger2611]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1479629960' post='3177882']
It seems the majority would take the lesser fee and a busy night then?
As most of us are probably semi pro that would make sense.
I liked the comment about how having one or 2 nights of live bands, even if its a loss maker, still brings in a few regulars through the rest of the week, gives me a bit of faith about the longevity of the business model!
I suppose the other elephant in the room is the material we play. As an old farts rock band, the punters are all pretty much getting older. If I was in a more contemparary setup playing chart sh*te its possible we might get to play in pubs for a younger crowd although I don't know if such places exist that want live music (or old men playing chart stuff!)
I think I have to accept its a "dying" demographic, evoloution and all that..
[/quote]

I am not sure it actually is a dying demographic, we played in Leicester again last night, not many people as ever but 4 acts, 3 were younger artists and ourselves who are definitely not younger artists! All three brought a few people with them so, in what was quite a small room, it made for a decent crowd, interestingly the songs that got the largely younger crowd up and dancing were covers of Jam songs, a Green Day number and a cracking cover of Erasure's Blue Savannah song.

So even with a largely younger audience they will still get up and dance to the old songs which, in some ways, is encouraging

[MiltyG565]

You're probably right - The model bands are using to fund the endeavour is a bit broken. Many pubs can't afford it, and most bands want more than they're offered.

I would take the higher paying gig. I'm not too bothered if it's half-empty. It might be less enjoyable, but months of practice, paying for and travelling to a practice room, investing in gear, and hauling it all to a venue does cost a lot. I don't mind losing money on it, because I enjoy it, but I'll also make money where I can.

[Painy]

As teenagers we would play everywhere and anywhere that would have us just because we wanted to play as much as possible. We would happily play a country pub in the middle of nowhere to 6 people for beer and petrol money.
We honed our skills and built a reputation and a following and were soon playing 100-150 gigs a year but to bigger crowds and/or for better money.
These days we've all got families so we've cut back to 25-30 gigs a year but it does allow us to be much more selective which gigs we do. We never go out for less than £300 now but we can still choose only to play venues that will generally have a decent crowd and still maintain that level of gigging.
I do consider myself very lucky to be in that position but if I had to make the choice?
For the feeling I get when the band is really on it, you connect with the audience and the crowd is jumping and my bass and the kick drum together are thumping in my chest cavity - for that I'd happily pay good money!

[Funky Dunky]

I'd take the crowd, every time.

[Conan]

[quote name='interpol52' timestamp='1479586877' post='3177720']
£30 and a good night, otherwise its a waste of time. I have a full time job that supports me so gigs are extra. If gigging was my main source of income though I would give a different answer.
[/quote]

For me, this. In fact I have Just left a band for exactly this reason - fed up of spending an entire evening in a bar that can't be bothered to promote gigs, to play to a dozen people, most of whom came with us anyway. I sucks the enjoyment out of it - whether you are paid or not (and we usually weren't!).

I get the whole "paid rehearsal" thing, but you only need to do so many of them. When almost every gig is like that, it's clear that something is wrong. If the band "soviet" aren't prepared to try something new then (for me, after seven years) it's time to move on to something else.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Conan

[stuckinthepod]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1479730564' post='3178755']


For me, this. In fact I have Just left a band for exactly this reason - fed up of spending an entire evening in a bar that can't be bothered to promote gigs, to play to a dozen people, most of whom came with us anyway. I sucks the enjoyment out of it - whether you are paid or not (and we usually weren't!).

I get the whole "paid rehearsal" thing, but you only need to do so many of them. When almost every gig is like that, it's clear that something is wrong. If the band "soviet" aren't prepared to try something new then (for me, after seven years) it's time to move on to something else.
[/quote]

I second this. I just played my last gig with my (pub covers) classic rock band on Saturday, after 2.5 years of gigging. Lots of effort and practice to play to a disinterested crowd who'd be more happy with jukebox or bingo or karaoke. We are a full fat rock show with big PA and lights and after rehearsal expenses, strings and gear its a loss making enterprise. If people were in to it I'd feel differently. Ironically the last gig was one of the best ones in the last six months, despite the blond haired Robert Plant wannabe invading our stage multiple times during the first set. Twat.

[RockfordStone]

i have a full time job, so for me it be the crowd. playing to entertain people is why we do it, at least those of us who play live.

if i wanted to spend my spare time getting paid for something no one appreciates, i'd get a second job stacking shelves at sainsburys.

[Muzz]

Given that the OP's question doesn't presuppose EVERY gig's gonna be like that, I'd take the money. I've played crap gigs to lots of people, and good gigs to tumbleweed, as well - it kinda balances out, and I'm not gonna get all precious if the venue/crowd aren't all that, as long as the band is, and I'm enjoying playing the music with them.

[Conan]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1479732546' post='3178777']
if i wanted to spend my spare time getting paid for something no one appreciates, i'd get a second job stacking shelves at sainsburys.
[/quote]

What an excellent analogy!

[Dan Dare]

Split the difference. Quite full and £50 or £60 in my pocket. On a more serious note, if you depend on it, you have to take the money. Those who don't have to pay the bills from music can be a bit too keen to look down their noses at the "breadheads" who need to earn a living, imho. I'm now in a position of being comfortable and not needing the money, but I remember the days when every penny counted and would never disparage someone who needs to put food on the table.

[bassjim]

£100.00 (between the band) but wouldn't do it more than twice. it would have to be garunteed packed though.

It would make up for the empty gigs.

there are some venues we play that are always good because the pub is behind live music, the punters want live music and we want to be the best we can at providing that.

the soul destroying gigs playing to an empty room usually due to a venue with either a bad rep, bad location, bad acoustics, wrong regular punters or somewhere trying it out in the hope they can have some of whats going on in the good places.


But yes I do think this is appealling to less folks than it used to. When I were a lad you had three sh*t channels of TV that stopped transmitting by 1.00 am latest or you could go out.

Pubs were 1. theres a band on or 2. there is not a band on. at some point in the evening punters went to one or the other.

Now.......

[Marc S]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1479586375' post='3177714']
I spoke to a pub manager about this one night and he said the fact that he has live bands every week means that his customers keep coming back.

Many of them come on nights that bands aren't playing and he believes that if he lost the bands he'd lose these customers completely.

By 'investing' in music once a week he keeps his loyal customer base happy and, in a very competitive local environment, that's his livelihood.
[/quote]

This is a good point, actually

Re the options. I don't need the cash desperately - I play for the love of music, but I do play a lot of freebies, and I'm starting to prefer not to play too many gigs for nowt or very little cash, as you sometimes play those to few people, or drunken punters who moan that you haven't played their favourite song etc..

In principal, I'd take option a over option b, but would prefer to get paid a fair amount AND have the pub full of dancing, singing punters
(of course, we all would! lol)

[stingrayPete1977]

Being in a trio is useful sometimes, we can take the low paying but good crowd gigs, one place pays £150, there's normally about 20-30 people in the bar area and the same again watching the band, it's all open plan so you are playing to around 50 people but they like their live bands, it's a happy medium. That said I wouldn't be able to get my other four piece wedding/function/pub band on there at that price so that band only does (half) decent paying gigs, some packed and some empty.

I have in the past done the empty venue but for the £30,not any more thanks!

Edited November 21, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[Ghost_Bass]

£300 and empty all the time. If i spend time practising and learning the songs, if i spend (lots of) money in gear and if i spend my time to travel the distance then i want to get payed for that.

Music isn't my main income fortunetly, it's just a hobby, but it has to pay if i'm going to leave my home and family at the end of the afternoon only to return at dawn.

Bands need to be booked at good prices, that way we can separate good bands from bad bands, i'm not going to offer my band for £100 just to compete with a bunch of kids that just started to pic up some H&B instruments, if the landlord want's more quality he has to pay for it. If a venue only books great bands it will get some reputation from that and the punters will eventually start to show up.

I love playing and hanging out with my band mates but i also love my family and wouldn't leave my house just for the fun every weekend. I would be perfectly capable of playing a few free gigs, in the right circumstances, though.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Ghost_Bass

[blue]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1479576569' post='3177612']
If this has been done before, apologies, but here goes...
So I've noticed especially at this time of year, we are playing to pretty quiet pubs, Im talking perhaps 20 people in the bar at best, not always, but more often than not it's quiet. There's no way the bar has taken £300 but in some venues thats what they pay us, its never less than £200. We always get asked back, never been told not to return in 6 years at any venue. Personally, I can't see this business model surving for much longer, and some boozers do close, only to be reopened again by some bright new hopefuls.
Anyway my feelings are mixed.
I do play for the money, I need it, everything I earn at work (self employed), I never see, it goes straight on the family, so the gig money is my spends. However, playing to half empty pubs is dispirting. I often feel before the gig, whats the point? I usually enjoy it once we get going but when I look out at that empty bar, it saps you.
So...if you had a choice, the band gets £100 but its packed full of sweaty happy punters
or..... the band gets £300 but it's loyal old Fred and his dog

Which would you choose, and why?

For me I would have said when I started out, the former but now I need the dosh.
[/quote]

In my part of the world, US Midwest the pay is pretty standard for bar bands. It's a $100.00 a man position maybe $125.00 a man. But you can make it up in the Summer time when festival and fair season starts.
The pay is significantly more.

To answer your question, I'm going to play my best have a good time whether I'm playing to old Fred and his dog or a packed bar of happy punters.

However we won't book $300.00 gigs. Keep in mind all bar bands play for four hours in the US. 8-12 is the standard. We played a 9:30-1:30 last Friday

Blue

Edited November 21, 2016 by blue

[randythoades]

I am possibly one of the few who does gig but doesn't really enjoy it overall, because of this exact thing. I get completely demoralised if there is an empty house and I would rather have been at home with Chinese takeaway and the wife. However, a busy venue is great fun, no matter how badly or well you play. So I would definitely take the crowd.

I understand the 'paid rehearsal' argument but I wouldn't pack the car with all of our gear, drive for an hour and a half to then spend another hour and half setting it all up, the same taking it all apart if I was just going to the studio for a rehearsal. I would just turn up with my guitar and amp, plug in and play until I was ready to go home.
But as others say, I don't rely on music for income so I would possibly think differently if I did.

[TimR]

Our band doesn't do a full run through rehearsal, studio 'rehearsals' are always practices.

[TimR]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1479586375' post='3177714']
I spoke to a pub manager about this one night and he said the fact that he has live bands every week means that his customers keep coming back.

Many of them come on nights that bands aren't playing and he believes that if he lost the bands he'd lose these customers completely.

By 'investing' in music once a week he keeps his loyal customer base happy and, in a very competitive local environment, that's his livelihood.
[/quote]

Yes. It works like this throughout the year. Pubs make big money on Sunday afternoons in the Summer and nothing on a Wednesday night in the Winter.

They also make huge amounts on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve.

Bands should operate on this model as well. Some gigs should pay more than others. I've played the same pub 4x each time it's had a different audience, but we still get the same amount. He didn't reduce our price when no one turned up and he didn't increase our price when it was rammed.

[Thunderbird]

If I gigged it would have to be the money as £100 is a lot to me but if I did not need the cash would be nice taking less and having a buzzing room