Stingray question

[interpol52]

I love the sound of a Stingray, generally when other people are playing one though.

I've had 2. The first was a 3eq natural/black/maple and sounded great. It didn't really fit what I was doing at the time so I got a Jazz instead. Then a few years ago I got a 2eq black/black/maple that sounded amazing on the E A and D but the G just vanished in the mix so I got rid.

This may be a contentious issue amongst Stingray fans (I am one) but is the weak G a common issue? I have read a bit about how it is not uncommon. Is it to do with individual bass issues or is it a user EQ problem? I'm not sure if it is the latter as my amp EQ is generally pretty flat.

Anyone have any input on this? Someone suggested a compressor but I think if I am going to spend a grand and half then I shouldn't need a pedal to sort out any issues.

[acidbass]

I have heard a lot of similar complaints. Have you tried adjusting the pickup height on the treble side?

[40hz]

This is an oft discussed thing. My USA SUB suffers from it as did the 3 band Ray I had before. I find raising the pick up did sweet FA, Just made the D and A out of balance. Funnily enough my remedy for it was to cut the bass on the preamp. It seems to balance out the string volume more evenly. They're still brilliant basses though, probably my favourite all round design.

Edited November 19, 2016 by 40hz

[dlloyd]

I found it to be a problem with certain amps and mostly if I had the preamp boosted full in all three bands.

[interpol52]

I altered the pickup height but it messed with the volume/tone of the other strings. I did put flats on once and that made a bit of a difference. I read once that the 5 strings don't have this issue so maybe should get one of those!

[stingrayPete1977]

Yes the 5s dont appear to get the issue.

I think the best way to solve or reduce the issue is to lower the EA side rather than raise the DG side and generally keep the pickup as far from the strings as possible, I set the treble side to a height that gives a nice output level then try and balance the bass side when playing in isolation at home, then I take a screwdriver to rehearsal to fine tune the bass side when playing in the mix, so far it's worked 100% of the time on 4 basses.

Edited November 19, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[Lozz196]

And maybe get a highr gauge G as well, to add a bit of beef into the equation?

[stingrayPete1977]

Possibly, I like 40 60 80 100 on a Ray 4.

[No. 8 Wire]

In my experience of tweaking mine over a number of years, the weak G results from the setup. Musicman have actually changed their guidance in the time I've had mine - this is now their setup advice:

https://www.music-man.com/faq (scroll down for basses):

[color=#333333]"If you have a single pickup bass set the pickup height to 6/32" from the plastic pickup cover to the bottom of the G string. Adjust the bass side of the pickup to be level with the pickguard."[/color]

[color=#333333]It seems a bit extreme but it does mean the strings are far more even in volume.[/color]
[center][font="Gotham SSm A, Gotham SSm B, sans-serif"][color="#333333"]Also remember the recommended strings for a Stingray are 45-100 - so make sure you have a decent sized G on there.[/color][/font][/center]

[center][font="Gotham SSm A, Gotham SSm B, sans-serif"][color="#333333"]I've suffered no problems after setting mine up this way - although it wasn't actually much of an issue setup the old way either.[/color][/font][/center]

[ambient]

I've had the same experience with Stingrays. They never sound right for me, always sound great for others. I've always suspected that it's because I tend to play very lightly.

[darkandrew]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1479589988' post='3177759']
Yes the 5s dont appear to get the issue.
[/quote]
Do you reckon that's to do with the more compressed and slightly more aggresive nature of the 5 string's ceramic pickup as opposed to the 4 string's alnico one? If so, would a 4 string EBMM Sterling pickup (also ceramic) fix the issue?

Edited November 20, 2016 by darkandrew

[drTStingray]

You guys with Stingrays with weak sounding G strings, could you post recordings? I have to say I have never heard one so would be interested - whenever I hear Stingrays on recordings they have balanced sound across the strings.

There are a number of things, as stated above, which you can do to avoid issues:-
1) Set your bass up to factory settings
2) Use 100 through to 45 string gauge (I.e factory spec)
3) Avoid over-boosting the bass EQ
4) Ensure you have sufficient mid range in your sound.

It is a fact of life that a bass guitar generally has an E string 2+ times thicker than the G string. Thus if you over boost the bass, either on the guitar (presuming it has such an ability) or your amp, it will make your thicker strings (which are more bassy sounding) sound louder. The Stingray, and especially the 2 band, has a powerful bass boost so it's easy to achieve this.

I think it also can be affected by playing style (over-whacking the lower strings).

Certain types of amps are light in mid range and might have an effect - I noticed going from Ashdown to Markbass not only could I hear myself better in the band, You Tube postings of performances of the same songs with the different rigs but the same Classic Stingray 2 band showed the bass sound to be more prominent with the Mark Bass.

I would suggest some of these methods could be looked at before modifying your basses. Anyway I shall wait to hear the sound samples with interest - although I won't be holding my breath - I asked people on Talkbass who were getting quite wound up about the issue to post samples and they never did.

The same effect can be achieved with a Stingray 5 (ceramic - note they aren't ceramic pre 92 or post 2008) at least as far as the player is concerned, by having a scooped sound - indeed it's as likely with any sort of bass - probably the most likely is a Fender Jazz with both pick ups full on - I recently posted an Ed Friedland test of various Ps and Js and the J with both pick ups on full actually sounded like the volume had been reduced compared with the other basses!

Finally, I think we bass players do get hung up on the sound 4ft from the speaker when it's actually nothing like what's heard out in the room. I've been guilty of complaining about keyboard players or guitarists playing with too bassy a sound and getting too much into the bass sonic frequency only to be told that the bass actually sounds great, well mixed in the FOH - the way forward is, if you have PA support, put the instruments through the monitors - works a treat, everyone can hear each other and no one turns up!!

Edited November 20, 2016 by drTStingray

[M@23]

My old 2EQ was one of the best playing 4 strings I've had. It did suffer from the weak G. Would really love to try a 5, especially if they are apparently better in that regard.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1479602289' post='3177828']

Do you reckon that's to do with the more compressed and slightly more aggresive nature of the 5 string's ceramic pickup as opposed to the 4 string's alnico one? If so, would a 4 string EBMM Sterling pickup (also ceramic) fix the issue?
[/quote]

No, not all Stingray fives have ceramic pickups, early ones don't and the new ones don't, nor the classic, I've got three SR5s and only one is ceramic, it does sound cracking though!

[fretmeister]

My Ray is loaded with EMGs and I don't have this problem.

[Japhet]

I put a John East preamp in mine. Volume across the strings is fine whatever you do with the tone controls.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1479644988' post='3178027']
I put a John East preamp in mine. Volume across the strings is fine whatever you do with the tone controls.
[/quote]

I'm sure it's excellent, but is actually modelled on his 76 Stingray.

Mine are all stock and don't have string/sound balance issues:-

93 SR4H Fretless 3 band
93 SR4H 3 band poplar
03 SR5H ceramic 3 band
03 SR4H 3 band
03 Sub 5 2 band poplar
07 SR4HH 3 band
10 SR4H Classic 2 band
14 Sabre (HH) Classic 2 band mahogany
16 SR4H 2 band 40th Anniversary alder

Edited November 20, 2016 by drTStingray

[Roger2611]

I gigged my USA Sub for the first time last night through the Mark Bass LM3 and 102 Traveller cab, due to stage size restrictions I ended up with my amp one side of the stage whilst I stood the other side of the stage with the amp angled across stage, it sounded fantastic, probably the best on stage sound I have had.

I certainly didn't notice any weakness in the G string sound

[mcnach]

My 2002 2EQ Stingray did have that to some extent... sometimes. My 2003 EBMM SUB with the same pickup and preamp, but wired in series has never felt like that.

The Stingray now has a MMSR 3-band preamp. The pickup is very angled towards the G string. It's largely fine. But sometimes it does feel a bit less 'there'. Because it happens sometimes and not always, because it's rare compared to when I was using the stock preamp, and because the series-wired pickup did not have that... I am convinced that the preamp settings have a LOT to do with it. The Stingray can produce a very wide range of sounds, and it can certainly scoop mids like a champ if you want it to, or if you don't realise how the very interactive controls work. So I think that people who have a more scooped tone may experience this "weak G string" more than others who don't.

I could be wrong, of course... but I've never liked anything that sounded remotely "scooped" in the mids, and I'm not struggling with weak G strings. When I did have some 'issues', from time to time, I was often amplification provided for me. I almost always use my own gear now, tired of too much inconsistency.

[Jon bass]

I have a 1992 black maple 2eq 4 string. I had this issue years ago but not anymore. I slightly raise the pickup towards the D and G string and slightly lower on E and A side. Also a mistake people make is having bass and treble up full, this can make the G string sound weak and too clicky. Having both at 50% gives you the midrange and then adjust slightly as you need to.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Jon bass' timestamp='1479692680' post='3178533']
I have a 1992 black maple 2eq 4 string. I had this issue years ago but not anymore. I slightly raise the pickup towards the D and G string and slightly lower on E and A side. Also a mistake people make is having bass and treble up full, this can make the G string sound weak and too clicky. Having both at 50% gives you the midrange and then adjust slightly as you need to.
[/quote]

That seems to match my experience too

[funkgod]

A lot of stingrays have this issue, moving the pickup for most does not really sort the Issue out for one that is bad as the four middle poles are higher so if you raise the bottom of the pick up to try and make the g louder the d gets louder,
The main prob really comes into play when I play swing or walking bass lines when I move to the g all the loudness drops out.
There is a cure I have done and covered this before,
Now here is my disclaimer ....
I have done this to all my stingrays and works great, up to you if you want to try it, or get advice first....

The four middle poles will push down, don't attempt to raise the end ones as the coils are wrapped around these and so a lot of tension on them , but if you press down gently but firmly the middle four will go down and even out all the poles, then when you raise the pickup the g will be as loud as the a an d , I can post a pic if wanted of all my poles flat inline, makes a big difference,

Now will say again, only try this if it's really bad as a last resort before say changing the pickup, and if you are not up to it, then get advice about it,
Hope it helps
here is the pickup after the pole height adjustment, its now so much better. ( for me)

[attachment=232578:IMG_1026.jpg]

Edited November 23, 2016 by funkgod

[mcnach]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1479900089' post='3180090']
A lot of stingrays have this issue, moving the pickup for most does not really sort the Issue out for one that is bad as the four middle poles are higher so if you raise the bottom of the pick up to try and make the g louder the d gets louder,
The main prob really comes into play when I play swing or walking bass lines when I move to the g all the loudness drops out.
There is a cure I have done and covered this before,
Now here is my disclaimer ....
I have done this to all my stingrays and works great, up to you if you want to try it, or get advice first....

The four middle poles will push down, don't attempt to raise the end ones as the coils are wrapped around these and so a lot of tension on them , but if you press down gently but firmly the middle four will go down and even out all the poles, then when you raise the pickup the g will be as loud as the a an d , I can post a pic if wanted of all my poles flat inline, makes a big difference,

Now will say again, only try this if it's really bad as a last resort befor say changing the pickup, and if you not up to it get advice about it,
Hope it helps
[/quote]

I wonder if adding a small circular neodymium magnet under the polepieces of the G string would help without affecting tone too much. I've heard about people adding a couple of magnets like that for higher output... I have no direct experience on that.

[funkgod]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1479901094' post='3180099']
I wonder if adding a small circular neodymium magnet under the polepieces of the G string would help without affecting tone too much. I've heard about people adding a couple of magnets like that for higher output... I have no direct experience on that.
[/quote]

hi yep been there too, iv still got a load of varying sizes, as tried it on jazz basses as well, i never really liked it, in fact on weak jazz pickups i think it made them even worse if ever you took them off, it sort of demagged them ??.
(unless that was a perception of it being louder before??)
sure loads of guys on here are well versed to giving good advice about this,
but yes dabbled in that also, but in the end just did what i did above,

Edited November 23, 2016 by funkgod

[MoonBassAlpha]

I wouldn't have thought you need to use a magnet on the pole piece, I think a piece of steel or iron (something magnetis[i]able[/i]) would do the same job without risking demagnetising the pickup itself.