Stingray question

[mcnach]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1479904392' post='3180139']
I wouldn't have thought you need to use a magnet on the pole piece, I think a piece of steel or iron (something magnetis[i]able[/i]) would do the same job without risking demagnetising the pickup itself.
[/quote]

the only way to increase the magnetic field on an existing polepiece is to make the magnet stronger, I guess. Since in alnico pickups the polepieces themselves are the magnets, adding metal underneath would not make it stronger, right?
I have no idea whether it can make the existing magetic polepieces lose properties or anything. I just remembered coming across a post on TB where some people did just that and it seemed to work for them (higher output on their pickups)

actually... there was talk about that but I think the images I saw (on the same thread?) was of a pickup with non magnetic poles where they removed the ceramic magnet and used a neo one instead... so I don't know anymore!

[blue]

I must be blessed. I've heard about issues with dead G strings.

I haven't had that problem even with 50 years of playing under my belt. I've owned a lot of different brand cool basses too, currently rotating 7 basses.

I've never owned a StingRay because of those round pick guards.

Good luck

Blue

[mcnach]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1479951629' post='3180591']
I must be blessed. I've heard about issues with dead G strings.

[/quote]

They look beautiful if you remove the pickguard

[Heathy]

I parted company with my Stingray for this reason.

I read that it's an issue with the electronics - I would definitely agree with this as acoustically it was fine.

Adjusting pick up height didn't appear to help me. Adjusting the EQ helped a bit - but you shouldn't have to do that. Playing with a pick helped a bit - so possibly a technique issue, but again a compromise you shouldn't have to make.

In the end I lost patience and went back to Fenders. A great bass in all other respects though.

[Mattpt85]

In my early stingray days I had all controls up full (2eq), then wondered why it didn't sound that good.
Made a massive difference turning them down to halfway then tweaking.

[stingrayPete1977]

If it's as prolific and detrimental as people say I wonder how thousands of hit records have been recorded using one? Maybe they use a P bass to fill in all the notes played on the G string in the studio after

[drTStingray]

You're back to the point I was making, Pete. I've never heard a recording of this effect and despite asking people who've posted on forums to post sound samples they never seem to do so.

I don't doubt that some people perceive this to be an issue, and there again there are other people who are unable for some reason to dial treble and clankiness out.

But for one person who has these issues I can find ten who don't.

All of the methods for dealing with this have been mentioned in this thread and most of it is down to set up, EQ choice and playing style - or dare I say it, possibly amps/speakers.

Now here's an interesting point - the band I play in played at a gig earlier this week with provided back line, PA and drum kit - I used my Old Smoothie (76 Stingray revisited) - the amp used for bass was a reasonable sized combo made by a manufacturer with a name beginning with F. This combo had so scooped a sound that even with the mid range turned right up on it, the pop and slap sound was thin and lifeless - as were high double stops and the like. I have had similar problems with a smaller version of the same combo - nice fundamental but virtually nothing else.

It is not the bass!! That sounds great through my set up. For those of the 'let's get the pole pieces flat to the pick up' persuasion, the Old Smoothie has exactly this - in fact slightly lower than the surrounding pick up - they're also elongated.

So is this problem down to people using amps that are fundamentally scooped? No doubt the ones I used would be fine with a Precision and are probably designed to work with one, but talk about choking the life out of an instrument!!

Edited November 24, 2016 by drTStingray

[mcnach]

[quote name='Heathy' timestamp='1479979224' post='3180692']
I parted company with my Stingray for this reason.

I read that it's an issue with the electronics - I would definitely agree with this as acoustically it was fine.

Adjusting pick up height didn't appear to help me. Adjusting the EQ helped a bit - but you shouldn't have to do that. Playing with a pick helped a bit - so possibly a technique issue, but again a compromise you shouldn't have to make.

In the end I lost patience and went back to Fenders. A great bass in all other respects though.
[/quote]

you shouldn't have to adjust the EQ to make it sound the way you want it?

I've heard people moaning about playing the Jazz bass on two pickups full and getting lost in the mix... no surprise if you essentially have a very scooped sound and the rest of the band is prominent on lows/highs so you're directly competing rather than fitting in. That gets solved by changing the sound... different pickup balance (adjusting heights slightly differently also has a big effect on how scooped the sound is to start with), different EQ. I don't think the Stingray is that different a case.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Mattpt85' timestamp='1479980729' post='3180708']
In my early stingray days I had all controls up full (2eq), then wondered why it didn't sound that good.
Made a massive difference turning them down to halfway then tweaking.
[/quote]

Indeed. You can get a lot of variation from that preamp but I guess a lot of people just turn everything full, as most do with passive basses

[40hz]

For me the problem isn't recording the bass, indeed it records very well. It's in a live situation the problem surfaces. Played a Halloween gig recently and the G was just non-existant. The same thing rears it head with multiple amps as well. I set my eq flat (bar a smidge of bass boost) with my TC Bh550. As I said though, I can bring it back a bit by pulling back on the bass on the 2 band preamp and using the Spectracomp toneprint.

Edited November 24, 2016 by 40hz

[Heathy]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1479984689' post='3180740']
you shouldn't have to adjust the EQ to make it sound the way you want it?

I've heard people moaning about playing the Jazz bass on two pickups full and getting lost in the mix... no surprise if you essentially have a very scooped sound and the rest of the band is prominent on lows/highs so you're directly competing rather than fitting in. That gets solved by changing the sound... different pickup balance (adjusting heights slightly differently also has a big effect on how scooped the sound is to start with), different EQ. I don't think the Stingray is that different a case.
[/quote]

The point I was trying to make was that to make the G string more prominent I had to dial in a tone I didn't really want!

I also don't think that it was my amp/speaker as I had used various basses with the same set up for 25 years.

I'm not slagging of Stingrays, though. In every other respect I really miss mine.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='40hz' timestamp='1479988369' post='3180793']
For me the problem isn't recording the bass, indeed it records very well. It's in a live situation the problem surfaces. Played a Halloween gig recently and the G was just non-existant. The same thing rears it head with multiple amps as well. I set my eq flat (bar a smidge of bass boost) with my TC Bh550. As I said though, I can bring it back a bit by pulling back on the bass on the 2 band preamp and using the Spectracomp toneprint.
[/quote]

I find a TC is too scooped - myself and some mates attend a jam with one of these as the supplied bass kit - it also chokes the top end (on Jazz, Ray, Sabre even on a Warwick Streamer Jazzman). I think it is a facet of some amps. It is the same with guitar amps - comparing Vox AC 15 with Fender Deluxe Reverb - the Vox has lower power (15 v 22w) but the Fender is scooped so sounds quieter!

Turning to walking bass lines, I find you have to be very careful where you play these on any bass dependent on how busy the keyboard and guitar players are in that sonic area. Note Dave Swift plays in upper octaves sometimes to avoid Jools Holland's left hand piano. I used my Fretless Ray for many years in a Rockabilly band playing walking lines most of the time - they were fine on all strings until about the 12 th fret or so when they really did appear to drop out on the G and D (not on video recordings though - you could clearly hear my duff intonation high up on the fretboard at times!!).

Fender twin v Vox article for those interested.

https://reverb.com/news/vox-ac15-vs-fender-deluxe-reverb?utm_campaign=5a1550ab27-rn161113_content_uk&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5889ed6702-5a1550ab27-58834077

Edited November 24, 2016 by drTStingray

[Damonjames]

Playing devils advocate here, if this was a pole height issue, there would be variation across all strings. The output is governed by the size of the steel moving within he magnetic field, and the strength of the field. The strength would be varied by the distance from centre.
Ok, the e string has a bigger gauge string, so this may account for there being no issue with the loss here. But surely there should be a noticeable difference between the A and D strings also due to different string gauge??
The same argument could be made for any pickup guitar or bass that has varied pole height? Think of a guitar with an .009 high E where the poles are contoured to suit the neck radius? It doesn't seem to be an issue commonly reported.
I haven't noticed this on my sterling bass, haven't noticed if the poles are varied on this bass, but it does have a 3 band eq.
Is it only 2 band eq rays that are affected?

Is it possible that there is just some frequency cut/cancelling happening in this range only due the native circuits of the amp/bass??

It be helpful to build a database of who is using what amps with their ray and what model!!

I genuinely feel for anyone having this problem, stingrays are just amazing basses. Everyone deserves to enjoy it as Leo intended.

Personally, I have used a USA SUB5 with my gallien Krueger rb1001ii with neo 212/115 and now using my stingray5 with a markbass TTE 500 into gallien Krueger neo 212.
I have used the sterling bass into the markbass/neo setup but only for practice at home, never in a band setting so this doesn't count.

[mep]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1479900089' post='3180090']
A lot of stingrays have this issue, moving the pickup for most does not really sort the Issue out for one that is bad as the four middle poles are higher so if you raise the bottom of the pick up to try and make the g louder the d gets louder,
The main prob really comes into play when I play swing or walking bass lines when I move to the g all the loudness drops out.
There is a cure I have done and covered this before,
Now here is my disclaimer ....
I have done this to all my stingrays and works great, up to you if you want to try it, or get advice first....

The four middle poles will push down, don't attempt to raise the end ones as the coils are wrapped around these and so a lot of tension on them , but if you press down gently but firmly the middle four will go down and even out all the poles, then when you raise the pickup the g will be as loud as the a an d , I can post a pic if wanted of all my poles flat inline, makes a big difference,

Now will say again, only try this if it's really bad as a last resort before say changing the pickup, and if you are not up to it, then get advice about it,
Hope it helps
here is the pickup after the pole height adjustment, its now so much better. ( for me)

[attachment=232578:IMG_1026.jpg]
[/quote]

I had this problem some years ago on my 2 band eq Ray and this totally solved it. There was a thread on here about it. It's easily done.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1480028183' post='3181215']


I had this problem some years ago on my 2 band eq Ray and this totally solved it. There was a thread on here about it. It's easily done.
[/quote]

I don't doubt you and others are 100% sure about this.

However I have flat pick up pole Stingrays with which too scooped an EQ can produce the same issue exactly - btw on a 2 band full on tone controls = SCOOPED SOUND - on a 3 band less so because of the mid range EQ (presuming you max it). Couple that with a naturally scooped rig and you can easily create the problem with any bass with dynamic sound (eg a Jazz). The only one you'll probably be ok with is a P bass because people like to scoop the sound of those and they don't have vast dynamic range anyway.

So I don't buy the idea that moving the pole pieces helps particularly - the whole point is they follow the fretboard radius so keeping all strings relatively similar distance from the strings - always provided people haven't done a poor set up job with their saddles or pick up height. I've seen some horror stories there as well!!!

I'd like to hear comparative sound samples? Anybody done one pre and post moving pole pieces?

[blue]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1479977914' post='3180682']


They look beautiful if you remove the pickguard
[/quote]

Good point, I took the black pick guard off of my MIJ 1951 Precision reissue and it looks kick arse now.

Tried to do the same with my MIJ Sting Signature bass but found routing for a thumb rest. So it didn't work out and I left the white pick guard on. Great bass but it comes with a cheap single layer pick guard.

Blue

[Wayne Firefly]

Over the years I've had 9 MM basses and had 2 'Rays that had this issue. My current USA Sterling had it too....BOOMING E and whispering G. I lowered the pickup until the boom stopped and whaddya know, the G woke up as well !! To my deafened ears, the 3 bands are a softer, polite-er version, the 2 band is a snarling rasping animal. I love my battered old Sterling and have often considered fitting the new 2 band Sterling Classic circuit to it instead of the stock 3 band to make it a little more aggressive.

[funkgod]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1480028999' post='3181220']
I don't doubt you and others are 100% sure about this.

So I don't buy the idea that moving the pole pieces helps particularly -
[/quote]

Hi drT,
Trust me it works,
if you want too check without doing it, then ....
plug your bass in,
hit the G
and slightly press the bottom of the pickup down.
you will notice the loudness drop
so what you are doing by dropping the middle poles is lowering the loudness of the A and D while the G stays the same
then when you rase the pickup the all the A,D, and G will rise in volume the same,
or rase on just the G side to make the G louder
and hay if it does not work you can always put them back. worth a try

this is why maybe Leo fender when he went on to do the G&L basses, made basses with height adjustable pole pieces?
and them MFD pickups are the mutz nutz. no issues there

In fact he stated he did this to alter the individual output of each string, and it works
here ya go...
G&L pickup
[url="http://www.glguitars.com/features/MFD-pickups.asp"]http://www.glguitars...MFD-pickups.asp[/url]

wal bass players have always had this luxury since the 70s, and what a great idea it was.
and even 60s cheap guitar pickups had them height adjustable screws,
come to think of it, i remember my first bass a Gibson Sg copy having adjustable poles,
wish i still had that

Edited November 29, 2016 by funkgod