Pub setup - sound advice needed

[Skinnyman]

I'm after some advice from the live sound gurus among us....

We're booked to play a pub soon and, having played there a couple of times before, we've found the acoustics challenging to say the least.

The building is an 'L' shape and the band area is at the bottom of one of the legs of the L. It's normally the darts / pool room and is connected to the rest of the pub by a narrow archway. The rest of that leg is taken up by the bar which runs along one side of the leg and the other leg is seating and dining.

So where we play is effectively cut off from the rest of the pub by the archway. The ceiling is low and the walls are bare so sound gets reflected back into the room where we're playing.

We normally set up at the bottom end of the leg and put the PA speakers (vox only) either side of the arch, firing into the pub. Vocal monitoring is a pig as the room is prone to feeding back and the monitors have to overcome the guitar amps and drums which are playing at volume in order to be heard in the rest of the pub.

I'm wondering if there's a better set up?

Should I set up the guitar amps in front of and pointing at the guitarists, so that they become their own monitors and then Mic them to put through the PA?

Should we try and set up oriented across the room and just "play to the room" and effectively ignore the rest of the pub - not even try to be heard out there?

Or is there anything else we can do to get the on "stage" volume down to a reasonable level and still be heard by the rest of the pub?

Apologies if my description is a bit vague but I'm sure many fellow bass chatters must have encountered similarly challenging venues and could give me some pointers on how to get a reasonable mix?

Thanks in advance

[bertbass]

If it was me, I'd do your suggestion, try and set up oriented across the room and just "play to the room" and effectively ignore the rest of the pub - not even try to be heard out there? If the audience want to hear and see the band then they'll come to you.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1479731177' post='3178759']
If it was me, I'd do your suggestion, try and set up oriented across the room and just "play to the room" and effectively ignore the rest of the pub - not even try to be heard out there? If the audience want to hear and see the band then they'll come to you.
[/quote]

Yep, that's what we do in that sort of situation. Next Wirebirds gig we are playing in the corridor leading to the toilets with a small in front of us in an otherwise large pub. We know it'll sound terrible if we turn up too far, so just play for those people near us and let the sound drift out to the rest of the place. Far from ideal, but not many pub gigs are, in my experience.

[Twigman]

[quote name='Skinnyman' timestamp='1479729237' post='3178736']
Should we try and set up oriented across the room and just "play to the room" and effectively ignore the rest of the pub - not even try to be heard out there?

[/quote]
This

There's nothing I hate more as a punter than not being able to find a place to chat when there's a live band on.
Do the punters who aren't there for you a favour.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Twigman

[stingrayPete1977]

If you can get the whole band in the pa then it's no different to regular music on the sound system spaced around the pub, of course there's a ten page thread about using anything other than vocals through the pa in a pub, most of those people are playing 30+ year old songs through a 30+ year old pa though, the pa world has moved on a little in recent years

Edited November 21, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[Happy Jack]

You can't play 30+ year old songs through a modern PA though. It'll sound really scratchy ...

[crez5150]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1479735806' post='3178830']
If you can get the whole band in the pa then it's no different to regular music on the sound system spaced around the pub, of course there's ten page thread about using anything other than vocals through the pa in a pub, most of those people are playing 30+ year old songs through a 30+ year old pa though, the pa world has moved on a little in recent years
[/quote]

I love the sound of distorted bass through a pair of old Hysis....

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1479735936' post='3178831']
You can't play 30+ year old songs through a modern PA though. It'll sound really scratchy ...
[/quote]
You need to download the "descratcher app", free on Android, £50 for the Apple version

[mep]

Sounds a nightmare.

There are 2 venues which we won't play anymore (a rugby club large function room and private club) which have appalling acoustics. Although I guess this isn't an option for you.

[Marc S]

It does sound a nightmare. An old band I was in a few years back had this sort of problem at one venue.
It too was L shaped, and the sound was not as good as we usually got it to be.

Is there anywhere else in the room you can play? Or any other arrangement? Can you play the far end of the larger wing of the room? Leaving chatting punters to the smaller wing of the room? If not, as others have said - play to the room you're in...

[molan]

I'm going to say what I always say - get a decent PA and put as much as possible through it.

Take control of your sound rather than letting room acoustics and layout cause you so many problems.

[KevB]

I'g go along with the first couple of responses from bert & dave. There is always the temptation to rack up the volume to try to 'force' the sound round the venue and it never works. You just end up pissing off those that have been drawn in for a look early in the set.

[bassjim]

just turn it down. I hate bad rooms with a passion. there is no cure. best advice is as above . keep it to the near and dear. nothing more garunteed to empty whats in there by hammering up the vol and making an awful din. If its that bad and leaves you down hearted after just dont play there again.

[stingrayPete1977]

I actually think using the pa is the best way as you can use small amps as backline to keep the volume down, ironically the bigger and better your PA the lower you can get the volume but keep a nice sound, the eq on the pa in most cases will be far better at tweaking out the frequencies that are causing the "bad room".

[blue]

It's a tough call, I've been in this same situation many times.

You really do have to play to the room. Your sound will be different to everyone depending on where they're sitting.

Blue

[PaulWarning]

slightly off topic but relevant to the volume, we did a gig last Saturday where we had to sign a form saying we wouldn't go above a certain decibel level, of course we hadn't got a clue how loud that was, but the venue were happy, said they'd had a couple of bands on recently that they wouldn't book again because they were too loud, I'm afraid you just have to except that people want to chat when they go to a pub, not just listen to music, doesn't mean they're not enjoying it just because they're not giving you their undivided attention

[mrtcat]

Playing odd spaces like that is a bit of an art and clearly, judging by the responses above, many on this forum have mastered that art. Volume control on stage (or behind the pa as is more often the case) and a nice PA are the two things I focus on. If you can get everyone to turn right down, put a mic in front of guitar amps, DI the bass and point amps at your heads so you can hear yourselves then you stand a far better chance of getting a nice mix out front that isn't so loud that it just becomes a headache when it starts bouncing about. Low ceilings are far better than high ones.

[mep]

The drums will be problematic. There is only a certain amount any drummer can do to help.

[Skinnyman]

Thanks everyone. Some really good pointers here. I'll try and distill this down to two or three key points to try out on Saturday. I really want to get this right as we're back there on new years eve so this weekend gives me chance to try out ideas.

[stingrayPete1977]

Good luck

I've got something similar myself on Saturday, lots of little rooms all on different levels, what will be will be.

[Phil Starr]

We have this in a pub we play in Taunton. Molly Malone's if you are of that parish. The solution I settled on was to angle the PA diagonally just a little to spill sound further down the pub but essentially to play to the room. The problem with everything rotated 90 degrees and a full mix through the PA is that the sound doesn't appear to come from the invisible band tucked round the corner. If you aren't set up for a fully mixed sound including miked drums it isn't worth investing for a one off gig, though that would undoubtedly be better.

One obvious thing, operate the PA in mono everything panned centrally, if the speakers are pointed at different angles.

[nige1968]

We do (did?) an L-shaped pub where we had to play in front of the ladies' loo, either side of the sole route to the beer garden. One of our number had to sit behind the fruit machine, the rest on the opposite side of said highway. People were generally kind enough to wait for the gaps before heading past into the loo, which is better than some places.

[oggiesnr]

Two choices as I see it. Either play to the people who can be bothered to find you in your leg of the L and put on the best possible sound for them or talk to the landlord/manager and set up in the outside corner of the L and play down the bar. If he's going to have a big crowd in on NYE then he might go for the latter.

[Adrenochrome]

I would absolutely mike the whole band, you'll probably need subs/bass bins, keep the stage volume modest and have the PA speakers beyong the archway. As above, don't worry if the sound doesn't reach all of the pub.

[TimR]

How long is this pub?

We played something similar a few weeks ago. We just played to the area where people could actually see the band. I'm not interested in performing to people who are not watching.