lefrash Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Alrighty folks. Im hoping to harvest some of your skills and knowledge here. Back story is, I currently have a large 2x10 cabinet which I replaced the drivers with 2 Eminence Basslites s2010. These made the cab light and sounds perfectly nice! However the cab is big and bulky, Im currently not in a band fulltime and in my head I'd rather have 2 1x10 cabs so i can pick and choose what I want to use. I've priced up getting 2 of these and to get light and small (the usual story) its not really cost effective for me (ie im not willing to spend that kind of dough). I doubt I'd get much for the cab i currently have or the speakers alone so all in all i think my best plan is to build some cabs myself! * So, this is where you come in. I know there is more to it than just building a cube and hoping for the best (thats what would happen if I just steamed ahead with it) . I dont have the knowledge or skills how to work out the optimum cab size and the relevant porting so I'm hoping someone here could have a quick look for me and come up with a quick plan? I'm looking for the smallest possible to get the maximum results. I dont understand those wee graph things with frequencies and I dont understand that program people tell you to download to work this all out so I'm literally on the hope someone can do all the brain work for me! *I should mention that the builds will actuall be my dad who is an excellent woodworker so the build will not be a problem. Thanks in advance and there may be a free gift to anyone who helps me! Fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil-osopher10 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Check out bill fitzmaurice, a lot of people use the jack series for bass cabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Eminence already publish plans for this driver, so you could just pick one of these designs: http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Basslite_S2010_cab.pdf All you'll need to do is calculate the box dimensions based on the volume in that - you could use the dimensions of some popular commercial design as a starting point, then tweak it to match the exact volume and port dimensions described in the eminence document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I went down this road a couple of years ago and have been very happy with the results. I'm happy for you to check them out - I'm based in Warrington if that is anywhere near you. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0854_zps276877b4.jpg.html"][/url] This is the speaker cab beside the Hartke 10 - no longer in production. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0972_zps22a94527.jpg.html"][/url] The finished speaker cab beside a 150w battery-powered amp, based on a car audio system. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrash Posted November 26, 2016 Author Share Posted November 26, 2016 [quote name='Mottlefeeder' timestamp='1480103214' post='3181759'] I went down this road a couple of years ago and have been very happy with the results. I'm happy for you to check them out - I'm based in Warrington if that is anywhere near you. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0854_zps276877b4.jpg.html"][/url] This is the speaker cab beside the Hartke 10 - no longer in production. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0972_zps22a94527.jpg.html"][/url] The finished speaker cab beside a 150w battery-powered amp, based on a car audio system. David [/quote] That is pretty much exactly what i had in mind! I'm nowhere near you but that's a kind offer! Did you use any specific dimensions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 I'm not sure how to upload drawings on this site, so I will probably have to photograph them and load them in as images. Meanwhile... I used WinISD to calculate the frequencies and volumes, and came out with a design somewhere between the two smaller Eminence designs. The box volume is 0.77 cu ft and the port is tuned to 63 Hz. This is a compromise - a bigger box could go lower, but it will handle less power before the speaker reaches its limits. In this design, the speaker will handle 100 Watts down to 50 Hz, and with a high pass filter set at 55Hz, it will handle 120W without going beyond Xmax. Since a bass guitar note is mainly a mix of fundamental and lower harmonics, and you do not normally hear much of the fundamental, designing it out gives you a smaller box, and few downsides. If that goes totally over your head, I'm playing a 5-string BEADG-tuned bass, using an amplifier that produces about 220 Watts into an 8 ohm speaker rated for 150 Watts, and you can feel the bass through the floor, even though the fundamental is being filtered out. Used without a filter, you need to listen for signs of distress, but it still goes pretty loud. The speaker box is based on a 12 inch wide piece of 9mm plywood. The top, back, bottom, port-shelf and baffle are all 12 inches wide, and the side panels are 12 inches deep. The external dimensions are 12 inches deep by 12.75 inches wide (12 inches plus two 9mm thicknesses) by 15.5 inches high. The port is 7.6 inches long, 12 inches wide, and 1 inch deep. The baffle is set back by 3/4 inch, and the grill is set back 3/8 inch. However, the speaker sealing ring is quite unyielding, and pushed the speaker further out towards the grill than I wanted it to be, so the speaker is mounted on plywood ring glued behind the baffle, so that its front edge is flush with the baffle front. - this will also help to stiffen the baffle. The top, bottom, port shelf and sides are braced with 2 inch wide 1/8 ply running front to back at their midpoints, and the back has a cross of bracing where the vertical and horizontal braces meet. Photographs of the build, and my sketches, to follow. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrash Posted November 26, 2016 Author Share Posted November 26, 2016 [quote name='Mottlefeeder' timestamp='1480195597' post='3182493'] I'm not sure how to upload drawings on this site, so I will probably have to photograph them and load them in as images. Meanwhile... I used WinISD to calculate the frequencies and volumes, and came out with a design somewhere between the two smaller Eminence designs. The box volume is 0.77 cu ft and the port is tuned to 63 Hz. This is a compromise - a bigger box could go lower, but it will handle less power before the speaker reaches its limits. In this design, the speaker will handle 100 Watts down to 50 Hz, and with a high pass filter set at 55Hz, it will handle 120W without going beyond Xmax. Since a bass guitar note is mainly a mix of fundamental and lower harmonics, and you do not normally hear much of the fundamental, designing it out gives you a smaller box, and few downsides. If that goes totally over your head, I'm playing a 5-string BEADG-tuned bass, using an amplifier that produces about 220 Watts into an 8 ohm speaker rated for 150 Watts, and you can feel the bass through the floor, even though the fundamental is being filtered out. Used without a filter, you need to listen for signs of distress, but it still goes pretty loud. The speaker box is based on a 12 inch wide piece of 9mm plywood. The top, back, bottom, port-shelf and baffle are all 12 inches wide, and the side panels are 12 inches deep. The external dimensions are 12 inches deep by 12.75 inches wide (12 inches plus two 9mm thicknesses) by 15.5 inches high. The port is 7.6 inches long, 12 inches wide, and 1 inch deep. The baffle is set back by 3/4 inch, and the grill is set back 3/8 inch. However, the speaker sealing ring is quite unyielding, and pushed the speaker further out towards the grill than I wanted it to be, so the speaker is mounted on plywood ring glued behind the baffle, so that its front edge is flush with the baffle front. - this will also help to stiffen the baffle. The top, bottom, port shelf and sides are braced with 2 inch wide 1/8 ply running front to back at their midpoints, and the back has a cross of bracing where the vertical and horizontal braces meet. Photographs of the build, and my sketches, to follow. David [/quote] David, this is great. I'll need to break it down properly tomorrow but I think I get it. Pics would be lovely though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Firstly, an apology - I pulled up the wrong WinISD file, so in my last post, the box volume and tuning frequenies are wrong - they came from another version. [u]The background[/u] I seemed to be playing mostly in rooms full of acoustic players, and a pair of Jack 10s (20 x 15 x 16 inches each) would have been a little intrusive. My Hartke Kickback 10 sounded good, but weighed too much for a long walk from the carpark, so I decided to try making a smaller box that I could sit on, using an Eminence Basslite S2010 from one of the Jacks. A bassist on the US Talkbass (Fdeck) has a DIY section on his website, and talks about making smaller boxes because he does not need extreme bass, so my starting point was to try and find out what my upper limit was for falling bass response. Using the variable-frequency high-pass filter in a Fishman preamp, and double checking with another one on my graphic EQ, I came to the conclusion that I could live with a -3dB point of 65-70 Hz, but any higher than that sounded distinctly bass-lite. Fdeck suggests tuning the port to suit the lowest note you want to play, then varying the box size to give you the low frequency cut-off that you want. I modelled the box in WinISD - a speaker design program. Unfortunately, with this speaker, tuning the box to accommodate a 30Hz lowest note gives a gently falling bass response that starts at about 150Hz. I built one, and did not like the sound. [u]The design[/u] Using WinISD I came up with a box size of 0.9 cu ft, with a shelf port tuned to 58Hz. This is similar to an Eminence published design from their website, [url="http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Basslite_S2010_cab.pdf"]http://www.eminence....e_S2010_cab.pdf[/url] but there is a risk of cone over-extension below 50Hz, so depending on what is played through it, it may need a high-pass filter or something similar. The attached screen shots are from WinISD Green = 0.9 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; no filter Grey = 0.9 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; 55Hz 12dB/Octave filter Red = 1.1 cu ft enclosure; 58Hz tuning; 55Hz 12dB/Octave filter Frequency response - the larger enclosure is louder between 50 and 100Hz, as expected [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20response_zpsp9isiphu.jpg.html"][/url] Power handling - the larger box has worse power-handling in the 70-100Hz region [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20power%20handling_zpsj2vu8ru2.jpg.html"][/url] Cone movement at 120W - without the filter, the cone excursion exceeds Xmax at about 50Hz. This means distorsion, but not damage. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/Speaker%20cone%20movement_zpsyld8w0x7.jpg.html"][/url] [u]The build[/u] The box was made from 12 inch wide 9mm ply, which I happened to have around, and the wall bracing was 4mm ply. Front and side section view [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF1775_zpszgcmghya.jpg.html"][/url] I used polyurethane wood glue because it foams as it sets, giving a very strong and airtight join. The pictures show the build, but not the mounting ring behind the baffle - this was added later when I realised that the speaker would sit further forward than I expected. Also, the bracing rib was extended to the full length of the port shelf. I lined the inside with 1 inch foam from a scrapped hifi speaker for my first cab, and 1.5 inches of wadding in the second cab. - They both sound good. Do not put foam or wadding within 1.5 inches of the inside end of the port. Box without second side - apologies for the Guardian centre fold! [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0852_zps2082ac9e.jpg.html"][/url] Box compared with an Hartke Kickback 10 - now obsolete [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0854_zps276877b4.jpg.html"][/url] Modified baffle - the blocks on the back wall are the wells for a plate-amplifier fixing screws. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0875_zpsd85388f5.jpg.html"][/url] Completed speaker box beside a battery-powered plate amplifier [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF0972_zps22a94527.jpg.html"][/url] David Edited November 29, 2016 by Mottlefeeder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrash Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 Mate this is tremendous. Literally exactly what I wanted someone to do! Do you mind me nicking the plans? Not sure what the etiquette is when it comes to things like this. Haha Thanks again. Fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 [quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1480442553' post='3184467'] ...Do you mind me nicking the plans? ... Fraser [/quote] No problem at all. If there is anything missing, let me know - e.g.foam/wadding I used 1 inch foam from a scrapped hifi speaker for my first cab, and 1.5 inches of wadding in the second cab. - They both sound good. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Bill Fitzmaurice Simplexx 10 would be where I would go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Bill gives the dimensions of the Simplex 10 as 18 x 16.5 x 14 inches, which is not exactly small. Also, if you model an S2010 in that size of enclosure (about 1.8 cu ft when you allow for the wood thickness and the grill clearance), the power handling is quite poor - 80 watts at about 70Hz with a 58Hz port, or 60 watts at about 70 Hz with a 40Hz port. I went for a smaller box that does not go as deep, but handles more power; Bill has gone for a larger box to give better bottom end, but the trade-off is the power handling. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil-osopher10 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) What's the finished product like? How does it sound? It looks like a great job Edited November 30, 2016 by Phil-osopher10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 [quote name='Phil-osopher10' timestamp='1480516173' post='3185029'] What's the finished product like? How does it sound? It looks like a great job [/quote] The complete speaker weighs about 7 kg, so it is an easy load in, whether it is from the carpark to the stage, or parking a street away from the pub. Also, it's small enough that you don't have a problem getting through doors, and the small footprint makes it easy to find space for it. How does it sound - well I'm obviously very biased, but it does what I wanted, very well. I play mainly acoustic bass guitar and it sounds natural with that, with both bass- and amp-EQ set level. It is loud enough to keep up with acoustic guitars going through the PA. Having decided that I preferred it to the sound of my Jack 10s, I've taken the driver out of the other Jack 10 and built a second one of these, and the pair are greater than the sum of the parts - as well as being louder, the bass goes deeper, I recently took a bass, both cabs and a 12 +12 watt battery-powered amp into central Manchester by tram and spent the day busking - everything else went through the PA, but that rig was all that I needed. You probably would not contemplate doing that with most commercial amplifiers/speaker combinations. Hope that helps David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil-osopher10 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Interesting, is it a more neutral sound than the jack's? Also how heavy were the jack's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Phil-osopher10' timestamp='1480697533' post='3186565'] Interesting, is it a more neutral sound than the jack's? Also how heavy were the jack's? [/quote] The Jacks go lower, and have a mid-range hump, so without EQ they can sound a bit 'cardboard box' like. With EQ they sound good, and are louder than a straight reflex enclosure - but you pay for that with the increased size. New reflex cab sitting on a Jack 10. [url="http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Mottlefeeder/media/DSCF1506_zpsybjeoq43.jpg.html"][/url] By removing the lowest 'muddy' octave, but having a strong output just above that, my reflex boxes sound punchier, but still have enough lows to vibrate the floorboards. The mids are smooth enough that flat-wound strings on an ABG sound good without the need for a tweeter. Unfortunately I don't have a weight for the Jack 10 with S2010. David Edited December 2, 2016 by Mottlefeeder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.