Number of basses on stage

[rushbo]

There are people who have never had to change a tyre. There are people who have never had to make an insurance claim. There are people who have never had to go to the doctors. Yet most of us have a spare tyre in the boot, we pay our insurance diligently and we don't begrudge our NHS payments. It's not arrogant or self-indulgent to have a back up instrument with you when you perform. It's just a bit of insurance for something that hopefully will never happen.

[rushbo]

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1480266015' post='3182924']
I honestly can't think of a time where I've tripped over my cable. I'm a big boy too and not exactly nimble on my feet.

If it works for you then great, but for me the supposed benefits for a pub band setting doesn't warrant the extra gear/ expense / complications.
[/quote]

My experience is a little bit skewed as I used to teach music to secondary school children. I once saw a year 8 student go for a wander with his guitar on, still connected to a PA head...it came crashing off the stand, hitting the floor and shorting all the electrics for the whole floor. That was fun. In my current band, we're all pretty mobile (for old blokes) and our singer/guitarist is the kind of person who will trip over anything that isn't perfectly flat or lashed down with a mile of gaffa tape. I use a Smoothound - the transmitter attaches to my strap in about four seconds and the receiver sits on a board with my Zoom B3, so no complications. It cost £149, but (for me) the extra mobility, the ability to go into the hall for soundchecks and having one less trailing wire for the band to fall over, justifies the expense.

Edited November 27, 2016 by rushbo

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1480267622' post='3182944']
I use a Smoothound - the transmitter attaches to my strap in about four seconds and the receiver sits on a board with my Zoom B3, so no complications. It cost £149, but (for me) the extra mobility, the ability to go into the hall for soundchecks and having one less trailing wire for the band to fall over, justifies the expense.
[/quote]

Same here - I go out the front with the iPad that controls the XR16, and set up the sound. Then when I am playing I don't stand on my lead, which actually seems a lot easier to do in a small space than a big.
Do I mind that some professional bass players are amused that I am using wireless? No, really don't think about it and if I did, I couldn't care less, I am sure there are many other reasons they could find to look down on me!

[JTUK]

2. I don't normally get involved in different tunings as the bass are 5's, I use them for just a little something different but apart from the sound, they are both interchangeable. Depends on what i feel and what I hear.

[Graham]

I own two basses and they both come with me to every gig, so long as there's space on stage they're both there. If it's tight on space the four string stays in the car.

I use the five string for 90% of the gig and the four for songs that have slap.

Our guitarist always has three guitars on stage (unless we're really restricted on space)

1. A Les Paul
2. A strat
3. One of his home made PRS/bitsas for songs that need a tremelo

[I]Unless, [/i] he wants to bring a Tele, in which case

1. A Les Paul
2. A Tele
3. An HSS strat

Edited November 27, 2016 by Graham

[rushbo]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1480268644' post='3182960']
Same here - I go out the front with the iPad that controls the XR16, and set up the sound. Then when I am playing I don't stand on my lead, which actually seems a lot easier to do in a small space than a big.
Do I mind that some professional bass players are amused that I am using wireless? No, really don't think about it and if I did, I couldn't care less, I am sure there are many other reasons they could find to look down on me!
[/quote]

It's surprising how many punters notice the lack of wire and comment at the end of the set - genuinely interested in how it works. It's not indulgence or overkill - it's a practical consideration. I've found that it's the tight spaces where people are more likely to trip/tread on/unplug a lead than larger ones. The hotspot tends to be around soundcheck time, when people have their instruments on and they're making adjustments to amps, PA's and pedals, sometimes without due care and attention. Lots of loose cables to trip over. I went for years thinking that a wireless was only for people who played on big stages, until I joined a band where both the singer and guitarist used them. It was a real revelation. Easy to use, incredibly quick to set up and thanks to quick-charge rechargeable batteries, not a huge expense either. I wouldn't be without mine.

[TimR]

My opinion of them is founded in the 80s when they picked up local cab firms and at pro theatres with Sure pro wireless microphones ££££.

I'm guessing technology has really moved on in the last few years and it may be time to look at them again.

I suspect pros don't have a lot of time for experimenting. They stick with what works and unless there is a real need to change then if it ain't broke; don't fix it.

[skankdelvar]

I never took a second bass to a gig until the night I opened the case to discover the nut had mysteriously sheared off to the left of the E string. I fabricated a repair using electrical tape to keep the string on but it was less than ideal. Thereafter I carried a s/h £50 spare bass to stash behind the amp in case of problems. I neither considered myself a professional nor a spendthrift for so doing, merely prudent.

As for wireless, it's damn useful when playing venues (or even rehearsal rooms) with shonky wiring. Avoids those nasty shocks which can be at least uncomfortable and possibly fatal. Add in the other benefits and a wireless pack is a no-brainer.

[ambient]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1480270990' post='3182984']
My opinion of them is founded in the 80s when they picked up local cab firms and at pro theatres with Sure pro wireless microphones ££££.

I'm guessing technology has really moved on in the last few years and it may be time to look at them again.

I suspect pros don't have a lot of time for experimenting. They stick with what works and unless there is a real need to change then if it ain't broke; don't fix it.
[/quote]

I think that's it, especially with the older guys that I play with, if it's not broken. They know their instruments and gear too, intimately, through hours and hours of playing daily.

Edited November 27, 2016 by ambient

[rushbo]

I've used a couple of wireless systems - a Line 6 G30 and a Smoothound. Neither have had interference issue and sound quality was great with both. The Line 6 developed an annoying dropout, which seems to be a fairly widespread issue with that model. A great shame. The Smoothound is the mutts nuts. I had an odd issue with it initially which was to do with the length of cord between the receiver and my multi fx, which Chris at Smoothound HQ sorted out for me with indecent haste.

I saw Sammy Hagar at the Brum Odeon sometime in the eighties which was notable for a few appearances of local taxi firms over the PA, thanks to Sam's prototype wireless dealio. Fortunately, he laughed it off and reached for a lead...

Edited November 27, 2016 by rushbo

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1480262604' post='3182876']


Just a polite grammar correction.

Your= It belongs to you
You're = You are
[/quote]

Thanks, small screen and auto correct honest chief, I'm not a regular offender

[stingrayPete1977]

As ever with these things why does anyone else care? Unless I'm being asked to carry or pay for the gear to take to a gig I'm going to see I don't see how it affects me.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1480270990' post='3182984']
My opinion of them is founded in the 80s when they picked up local cab firms and at pro theatres with Sure pro wireless microphones ££££.

I'm guessing technology has really moved on in the last few years and it may be time to look at them again.

[b]I suspect pros don't have a lot of time for experimenting. They stick with what works and unless there is a real need to change then if it ain't broke; don't fix it.[/b]
[/quote]

Most guys I know are very current.... drummers have multiple kits and may take them out on a whim or they feel the gig needs X.
Keys need the ability to update sounds and there is light years between a Kurzweil of 20 years and this years latest offering, for the key sounds.

I would hope most players update their sound and style...unless they have their niche. It is not always so great to stand still for long.

Horn players tend to stick with something comfortable but they are all into the 'sound'...

[mingsta]

Back in the early days of my current band I used to step out with a four and a five string, but this was down to my lack of proficiency with the five string, which I only used for the songs that needed it.

Ive somehow managed to end up as the owner /custodian of the band PA since then and the less I have to lug or worry about getting stolen the better. So it's just the for string and a pitch shift pedal nowadays.

The four guitars on a rack thing is pretty common round here and definitely a guitarist thing. I guess it's understandable if you've spent hundreds of hours trying to perfect that hendrix/page/etc tone that you'd want the right guitar on stage. However our guitard makes do with a les paul and just a handful of pedals, plugging straight in to the PA and I kind of dig his minimalist approach.

[peteb]

I generally take two basses in a double gig bag and leave the spare in the bag by the side of the stage. In over 30 years of gigging I’ve needed a spare maybe 5 or 6 times, but for some reasn it has often happened at the bigger gigs.

When I joined my first regular gigging band, I was offered the gig on the condition that I got a spare (even if it was a cheap beater) in case of emergencies. That made sense to me and I’ve carried a spare whenever possible ever since. I generally take two basses in a double gig bag and leave the spare in the bag by the side of the stage. In nearly 40 years of gigging I’ve needed a spare 5 or 6 times, but it has often happened at the bigger gigs.

When I joined my first regular gigging band, I was offered the gig on the condition that I got a spare (even if it was a cheap beater) in case of emergencies. That made sense to me and I’ve carried a spare whenever possible ever since.

[josie]

Interesting how this thread has developed into three different strands. One is about having a back-up in case of problems - which might be hidden behind an amp or even in the boot of the car. Another is about good reasons for using more than one during a gig, for different sound qualities (tuning or strings), keeping them ready to hand in a neat compact stand. The third - which I had in mind in the OP, but all are interesting to read - is - perhaps to put it crudely - about showing off your collection. I seldom see a bass player with two basses both set conspicuously on stands to be admired - and I've never seen a bass displayed on stage which wasn't used during the set - but lead guitarists seem to do it often.

Also I guess more of the audience will recognise the difference between types of guitar than types of bass? I recently went to a blues gig with a dear friend who appreciated the sound, but genuinely asked me how I could tell the difference between a guitar and a bass just seeing them stood on stage before the gig. She really did want to know and was glad to learn (length of neck, number of strings, spacing of frets in that order). But I bet more non-musicians can tell a Strat from a Tele, than can tell a J from a P. Thoughts, anyone?

[Dad3353]

When I see a piano on stage, it's only from the name written on it that tells me it's a Steinway or a Bechstein (other factors are available...). If I close my eyes and concentrate really hard on the tone, I'm none the wiser, either. Maybe I'm just a Philistine, or a non-tone freak, but I really find it hard to believe that it's of interest of any but hardened bass buffs to even think of such stuff. If the maker's name is not on the bass drum, can [i]you [/i]tell if your drummer plays Pearl, or Tama, or Sonor, or ... (the list is long...). Is that an oak kit, or maple..? Birch, maybe..? These things are the subject of some drum forum sections, but raise very few eyebrows in more general circles. Counting the basses..? My eyes are shut, listening to those precious piano tones, so how would [i]I [/i]know..?

[josie]

At Colne blues festival this year, I was sitting with a serious, long-term, knowledgeable blues fan acquaintance and commented when Wilko Johnson came on that it was unusual to see a Tele with a Jazz - Tele / P and Strat / J is highly predictable. To my surprise he "had never noticed that"!

[TrevorR]

This is a well trodden topic here but the OP does raise an interesting new twist. On the main issue, my main reason for taking two basses to gigs is, like many others, insurance and as a back up. But then again, I do have two lovely Wals (both bought second hand fifteen or twenty years ago and scrimped and saved for - so hopefully I can avoid the All The Gear And No Idea accusations) both of which have subtly different sounds and quite different necks. I could happily do a gig on either, of course, but on the basis that it gives me a bit of extra pleasure why not use different basses on parts of the set where for me the sound and feel of a particular bass seems particularly apt. Will the average audience member be able to consciously identify the difference? No, of course not but I can and that's all that matters when it comes down to it.

Dad's drum comment was interesting but I'd ask a counter question. Could you differentiate a Yamaha foldaway kick from one of those big 25 inch 1920s jazz band kick drums? A 14 inch birch piccolo snare from a 16 inch deep stainless steel snare? That's much more in the ball park for a P vs J, EB3 vs MM debate.

Then there is the question about the showoff factor which I don't recall seeing in this debate before. I think that you'd need to be a particularly self-deluded breed of bassist to presume that an average audience could determine the exclusivity of your bass collection. They'd be more likely to look at your Carl Thompson, Alembic and Dingwall and think, "Oooh, that one's a funny shape, that one looks a bit like a scorpion's bitey bits and why has that one had the little bits of metal put on all crooked?" If they thought anything at all. Or even noticed the basses at all.

In about 10 or 15 years of playing in a function band I only once had someone come up and say, "Ooh, a couple of Wals, nice!" Once. That's about the show off hit rate I'd expect. A few times I had teenage boys come up and ask what effects I was using to get all those different sounds out of the bass. I was using a Boss TU2 and a Lehle 3@1 line switcher! A discussion then ensued about the versatility of the Wal tones but that most of the difference (even on a simple passive bass) came from varying where I plucked the string, the level of aggression in the plucking and plucking with different parts of the finger or thumb.

I tell a lie. I did have several people complementing me on my basses. What did they say? On my Mk 1 Wal... "That wood looks very pretty." and on my Pro IIE... "Ooh, that's a lovely red colour." They weren't bass players so, so much for exhibitionism. It is a really lovely shade of red, though.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1480326580' post='3183304']...
Dad's drum comment was interesting but I'd ask a counter question. Could you differentiate a Yamaha foldaway kick from one of those big 25 inch 1920s jazz band kick drums? A 14 inch birch piccolo snare from a 16 inch deep stainless steel snare? That's much more in the ball park for a P vs J, EB3 vs MM debate...
[/quote]

Well, I'd reply that those are quite extremes of the spectrum, just the same. My snares are a Camco 14x5.5 maple, a Tama 14x6.5 Maple and a Tame 14x6.5 steel. To me, they're very different; to most, in a band context, I doubt if they could be distinguished, as I'd be adjusting the playing to suit the song. A different 'ring', different dynamiques, different 'voices', but just a snare in the mix, especially if mic'ed. Still, I take the general point. Maybe I should start taking my collection of cymbals, too..? My Paistes are well different from my Sabians, or Meinls. Who'd know what I had mounted at any one time..? What does your drummer use..? Could you tell from listening alone..? Are they just for display..? After all, many great drummers got by with a pair of hats and a crash-ride. What are the others for..? Spare..?Showing off..? Maybe.

[progben]

I usually just bring one bass to a gig with me but am going to start bringing a spare (for back-up reasons, as previously mentioned by many).

I think using two instruments live is sometimes a luxury but is also important sonically depending on context. For eg. a strat and a tele are very different and in our songs, one is clearly more suited than the other.

Bass-wise, I use a similar tone for each song so having (and using) two basses would be more of a luxury-move than an essential one.

All depends on what type of music you play, how worried you are about string breaks etc. That said, I can't see a downside to having a back-up instrument at every show, just in case.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1480329777' post='3183325']

Well, I'd reply that those are quite extremes of the spectrum, just the same. My snares are a Camco 14x5.5 maple, a Tama 14x6.5 Maple and a Tame 14x6.5 steel. To me, they're very different; to most, in a band context, I doubt if they could be distinguished, as I'd be adjusting the playing to suit the song. A different 'ring', different dynamiques, different 'voices', but just a snare in the mix, especially if mic'ed.
[/quote]

Agreed, and that's where I reckon the endless debates on ash vs alder Jazz basses or the difference between maple and walnut veneers on a Wal or a Ken Smith reside... And the original example of a maple vs a birch shell on otherwise similar snares probably gets us into Badass II vs Hipshot vs Babictz (or however they're spelled) bridge debates.

[EliasMooseblaster]

It's a long time since I've been in the habit of taking a backup. That said, I normally take two basses to a gig as alongside a 4-string, we'll often play at least one of the songs that requires an 8-string. I haven't broken a bass string in something like ten years (touches wood, throws salt over shoulder), but I guess if it came it I could always use the 8 as a backup for the 4 - playing only the bass strings isn't easy, but it's not impossible...

[TimR]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1480329777' post='3183325']


Well, I'd reply that those are quite extremes of the spectrum, just the same. My snares are a Camco 14x5.5 maple, a Tama 14x6.5 Maple and a Tame 14x6.5 steel. To me, they're very different; to most, in a band context, I doubt if they could be distinguished, as I'd be adjusting the playing to suit the song. A different 'ring', different dynamiques, different 'voices', but just a snare in the mix, especially if mic'ed. Still, I take the general point. Maybe I should start taking my collection of cymbals, too..? My Paistes are well different from my Sabians, or Meinls. Who'd know what I had mounted at any one time..? What does your drummer use..? Could you tell from listening alone..? Are they just for display..? After all, many great drummers got by with a pair of hats and a crash-ride. What are the others for..? Spare..?Showing off..? Maybe.
[/quote]

My son has just taken up drums.

The difference between cymbals is marked and you get what you pay for.

He has his eye on £800 worth of hand made Turkish hi-hat, crash and ride cymbals. They do sound awesome...

[Dad3353]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1480347231' post='3183565']
My son has just taken up drums.

The difference between cymbals is marked and you get what you pay for.

He has his eye on £800 worth of hand made Turkish hi-hat, crash and ride cymbals. They do sound awesome...
[/quote]

It's getting 'em to match that makes the difference. If he's got a set (whatever their make or provenance...), then he's doing very well. Getting 'em to work in differing genres is yet another challenge, and, you're right, none of it comes cheap. Good luck to him.